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Weeden: Post Snap Read(Two more pics added)

 
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bulldog


Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 5833
Location: Salem
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:10 pm    Post subject: Weeden: Post Snap Read(Two more pics added) Reply with quote

Here we have a base I formation offense (strong side left) against a base 43 defense. Nothing fancy here. Not much to read either. I believe its Little at the bottom of the screen getting press man coverage and MoMass at the top with off man coverage. its a 2 man route, with T-rich on a delay route, which didn't ever materialize b/c he couldn't get through the LOS.

this play is the 5th offensive play of the game for the Browns. It is Play Action, the result of the play was a sack by Kyle Williams.

Brandon Weeden held onto the ball for 4 seconds.



Here's is a snap shot immediately after the play action. This is what Weeden saw as soon as his head was turned around. Two things to notice here...

1. Weeden seems to be just looking down the middle of the field. Not sure why.

2. The LB'ers bit HARD on the PA.



In this final shot, this is the time Weeden SHOULD have thrown the ball. Ample time. He appears to be looking at MoMass, just isn't pulling the trigger. He does eventually step up into the pocket, just fails to fire the ball.



Instead of this being a decent play, Weeden tried to scramble by running up the pocket and Williams caught him.

Good play call.

Good execution.

Just didn't throw the ball.

Here's the final 2 screen shots. This one you can see the space between MoMass and the time Weeden had to throw the ball.



Here's what the play turned into. You can see Kyle Williams behind Weeden. Sack.


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Last edited by bulldog on Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:05 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Ether


Joined: 16 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if that ball really should go to MoMass there, the safety is right there for a potential brain scrambler.
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Dawgpoun8017


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ether wrote:
I don't know if that ball really should go to MoMass there, the safety is right there for a potential brain scrambler.



or possibly jumping the route
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buno67


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dawgpoun8017 wrote:
Ether wrote:
I don't know if that ball really should go to MoMass there, the safety is right there for a potential brain scrambler.



or possibly jumping the route


yeah we have no idea what weeden is at and if the safety is reading his eyes or not. I think the play was to get TRich out in the flat but he was never able to make it out of the LOS
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KamTrus20


Joined: 17 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weeden is the least of my worries about this football team. He may be 28 but he is still a rookie QB and playing like one...go figure. Week 1 aside he hasn't looked nearly as bad as Gabbert and Ponder did just last season as rooks and they both look much improved. I'll be looking for Weeden taken a big step in 2013 but this year is all about learning everything he can. I'm willing to bet the pick up from games 1-8 to 9-16 are going to be better for Weeden than the other rookies.
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Thomas5737


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dawgpoun8017 wrote:
Ether wrote:
I don't know if that ball really should go to MoMass there, the safety is right there for a potential brain scrambler.



or possibly jumping the route


Well if that was a curl the ball should have been there right where the frame was stopped, so he wouldn't have been picked and MoMass likely would have been able to duck under a big hit and just take the yards he already had.
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bungleodeon


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas5737 wrote:
Dawgpoun8017 wrote:
Ether wrote:
I don't know if that ball really should go to MoMass there, the safety is right there for a potential brain scrambler.



or possibly jumping the route


Well if that was a curl the ball should have been there right where the frame was stopped, so he wouldn't have been picked and MoMass likely would have been able to duck under a big hit and just take the yards he already had.


Exactly what I was thinking. You throw the ball before he makes his cut and the safety doesn't have time to read it and make a break on it. At least not enough time to blindside MoMass or get in front of the route to intercept it. He may have enough time to break it up, but a well placed ball on that route, thrown before the break, shouldn't be a problem for the safety of the WR or for an INT.

He's a young QB though (kind Razz). Throwing the ball with confidence to a spot, knowing that the WR will make his break and be there, isn't something I expect him to have mastered considering where he is in his development. I just wish he was more accurate going down the field and outside the numbers. That was his supposed strength due to his big arm, but we certainly haven't seen that strength manifest itself in games. His decision making and confidence will improve, no doubt, but his accuracy on the "NFL throws" are a question mark, as is his touch. Some QB's figure it out, but many never do. I just hope he does.
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BooyaCS


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The primary read was a deep square in from Mo Mass at the top of the screen. He was covered by the corner and the safety.

The receiver at the bottom of the screen couldn't get separation.

Coverage sack.
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bulldog


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BooyaCS wrote:
The primary read was a deep square in from Mo Mass at the top of the screen. He was covered by the corner and the safety.

The receiver at the bottom of the screen couldn't get separation.

Coverage sack.


couldn't disagree more with everything you think about this play with exception about Little. He didn't get open, your right.

Look at the details of the still shots. MoMass has off man coverage (against the rookie I think). Its 2 deep, man under defense. The Safety stays deep and the corner blows this coverage.

DETAILS= The CB starts at the 31 yard line, when MoMass makes his cut (and a great route btw) the CB is at the 39 and running opposite direction while MoMass cut his route at 36, thus the blown coverage by the CB.
3 yards and the CB is going the other way. Thats wide open.

MORE DETAILS= the Safety starts at the 36, then in Pic2, he's at the 38 at the same time the LBers got sucked up by the PA. Then by pic3, the S is at the 41. While MoMass is at the 36. The Safety was still backpedaling with a 5 yard difference.

EVEN MORE DETAILS= Weeden held this ball for 4 seconds, as I mentioned. Its not a coverage sack when a guy is wide open and the QB holds onto the ball.

This is a play that is on Weeden. That throw needed to happen. Posts like these make it clear why some posters think what they do. Some simply do not understand, yet pass blame to the OL, WRs, and playcalling. Yet it is the QB who failed to complete this pass.

I have no idea why Weeden didn't throw this ball.
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BooyaCS


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulldog wrote:
BooyaCS wrote:
The primary read was a deep square in from Mo Mass at the top of the screen. He was covered by the corner and the safety.

The receiver at the bottom of the screen couldn't get separation.

Coverage sack.


couldn't disagree more with everything you think about this play with exception about Little. He didn't get open, your right.

Look at the details of the still shots. MoMass has off man coverage (against the rookie I think). Its 2 deep, man under defense. The Safety stays deep and the corner blows this coverage.

DETAILS= The CB starts at the 31 yard line, when MoMass makes his cut (and a great route btw) the CB is at the 39 and running opposite direction while MoMass cut his route at 36, thus the blown coverage by the CB.
3 yards and the CB is going the other way. Thats wide open.

MORE DETAILS= the Safety starts at the 36, then in Pic2, he's at the 38 at the same time the LBers got sucked up by the PA. Then by pic3, the S is at the 41. While MoMass is at the 36. The Safety was still backpedaling with a 5 yard difference.

EVEN MORE DETAILS= Weeden held this ball for 4 seconds, as I mentioned. Its not a coverage sack when a guy is wide open and the QB holds onto the ball.

This is a play that is on Weeden. That throw needed to happen. Posts like these make it clear why some posters think what they do. Some simply do not understand, yet pass blame to the OL, WRs, and playcalling. Yet it is the QB who failed to complete this pass.

I have no idea why Weeden didn't throw this ball.


It is 2 deep coverage with both safeties trailing to the WR. While the safety at the top was still backpedalling he was moving closer to the sideline.

Also I am trying to figure out where the sticks are as you cannot see them in that play. Sure the ball should have been out of Weeden's hands when MoMass made his cut. There is also a LB spying on the QB.

Not only that if you notice MoMass's arms they are on the opposite side of his body. It looks like he slipped coming out of his break (I would love to see the next still as well).

Not to mention the safety is in position to react and possibly jump the route as well.

However this should be a learning experience as well for the rookie.
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bulldog


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BooyaCS wrote:
bulldog wrote:
BooyaCS wrote:
The primary read was a deep square in from Mo Mass at the top of the screen. He was covered by the corner and the safety.

The receiver at the bottom of the screen couldn't get separation.

Coverage sack.


couldn't disagree more with everything you think about this play with exception about Little. He didn't get open, your right.

Look at the details of the still shots. MoMass has off man coverage (against the rookie I think). Its 2 deep, man under defense. The Safety stays deep and the corner blows this coverage.

DETAILS= The CB starts at the 31 yard line, when MoMass makes his cut (and a great route btw) the CB is at the 39 and running opposite direction while MoMass cut his route at 36, thus the blown coverage by the CB.
3 yards and the CB is going the other way. Thats wide open.

MORE DETAILS= the Safety starts at the 36, then in Pic2, he's at the 38 at the same time the LBers got sucked up by the PA. Then by pic3, the S is at the 41. While MoMass is at the 36. The Safety was still backpedaling with a 5 yard difference.

EVEN MORE DETAILS= Weeden held this ball for 4 seconds, as I mentioned. Its not a coverage sack when a guy is wide open and the QB holds onto the ball.

This is a play that is on Weeden. That throw needed to happen. Posts like these make it clear why some posters think what they do. Some simply do not understand, yet pass blame to the OL, WRs, and playcalling. Yet it is the QB who failed to complete this pass.

I have no idea why Weeden didn't throw this ball.


It is 2 deep coverage with both safeties trailing to the WR. While the safety at the top was still backpedalling he was moving closer to the sideline.

Also I am trying to figure out where the sticks are as you cannot see them in that play. Sure the ball should have been out of Weeden's hands when MoMass made his cut. There is also a LB spying on the QB.

Not only that if you notice MoMass's arms they are on the opposite side of his body. It looks like he slipped coming out of his break (I would love to see the next still as well).

Not to mention the safety is in position to react and possibly jump the route as well.

However this should be a learning experience as well for the rookie.


Does that help??

BTW, I chose to do this play this time b/c of the camera angle that was available. But its a great shot regardless.
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TeHDruiD


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the hesitation in the 2nd set of images is the linebacker sitting underneath of MoMass's route. Weeden has a rocket arm, but with the LB moving into the passing lane, their is a chance for an INT
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bulldog


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TeHDruiD wrote:
I think the hesitation in the 2nd set of images is the linebacker sitting underneath of MoMass's route. Weeden has a rocket arm, but with the LB moving into the passing lane, their is a chance for an INT


You may be right about the hesitation.

But, this goes back to the Presnap reads I've been complaining about for Weeden.

The play design is to suck the LB's up, taking them out of the play. Weeden knew he had off man, and a crossing route. This should have been a no brainer. Image 2 and 3 show this, but b/c of his hesitation (that resulted in a sack b/c he also failed to the the ball away) the lane that WAS THERE, wasn't.
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