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Confidence in Jason Garrett?
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Desperado82


Joined: 20 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mco65 wrote:
I think Garrett could do himself a favor by talking with his teams leaders. He knows who they are. He could encourage them to talk up the younger players more... Perhaps he already has... who knows.


You can't make guys "want" to win. They have that desire already or they don't.

There were a lot of those type of players here when Jason took over. He's trying to get them out, but it takes time. We're in year two. I don't think we'll see Jason's real imprint on this team until next year, after (hopefully) another solid draft.
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Northland


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mco65 wrote:
Quote:
Who remembers Michael Irvin, after a night of fun and festivities, showing up for practice and challenging anyone to outwork him?

A Hall of Famer leading by example. Not expecting anyone to do anything that he was not going to do and not getting outworked or out hustled by anybody.

That is the sort of leadership this team has lacked for years and continues to lack.


For one thing, what Irvin possessed was RARE! I give him more credit than any other player for the Cowboys success in the early 90s.. You can't pick up a HOF player with that kind of leadership in every draft or every decade of drafts for that matter. You certainly can't go up to any one player on the team today and say you have to lead like Irvin did.. most can't, or better yet, none can..

The Cowboys definitely lack this kind of leadership as do 99% of the teams in the NFL today. That doesn't mean they can't win.. They can, they just have to do it without a Michael Irvin type of leader on the team.

I think Garrett could do himself a favor by talking with his teams leaders. He knows who they are. He could encourage them to talk up the younger players more... Perhaps he already has... who knows.


No argument about Irvin's rare abilties, drive, and leadership. But what current leader will set, or is setting the work ethic standard on our club? Who is first to practice and last to leave, and outworking everyone else regardless of status or reputation? There just seems to be something missing from this club in those "unmeasurable" qualities and characteristics that don't show up on a stat sheet but mean so much. I don't think it is up to Garrett to talk with the teams leaders and get them to talk to the younger players more. They just instinctively have to do it.

In hindsight maybe Irvin wasn't the best example given his rare physical gifts and extreme leadership traits. But it doesn't always have to be the perennial all pro who is the leader - it's nice if it is. Maybe it is the Bill Bates type of guy who doesn't have the measurables but busts his you know what regardless of circumstance. Where are those players?
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Last edited by Northland on Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Northland wrote:
mco65 wrote:
Quote:
Who remembers Michael Irvin, after a night of fun and festivities, showing up for practice and challenging anyone to outwork him?

A Hall of Famer leading by example. Not expecting anyone to do anything that he was not going to do and not getting outworked or out hustled by anybody.

That is the sort of leadership this team has lacked for years and continues to lack.


For one thing, what Irvin possessed was RARE! I give him more credit than any other player for the Cowboys success in the early 90s.. You can't pick up a HOF player with that kind of leadership in every draft or every decade of drafts for that matter. You certainly can't go up to any one player on the team today and say you have to lead like Irvin did.. most can't, or better yet, none can..

The Cowboys definitely lack this kind of leadership as do 99% of the teams in the NFL today. That doesn't mean they can't win.. They can, they just have to do it without a Michael Irvin type of leader on the team.

I think Garrett could do himself a favor by talking with his teams leaders. He knows who they are. He could encourage them to talk up the younger players more... Perhaps he already has... who knows.


No argument about Irvin's rare abilties, drive, and leadership. But what current leader will set, or is setting the work ethic standard on our club? Who is first to practice and last to leave, and outworking everyone else regardless of status or reputation? There just seems to be something missing from this club in those "unmeasurable" qualities and characteristics that don't show up on a stat sheet but mean so much. I don't think it is up to Garrett to talk with the teams leaders and get them to talk to the younger players more. They just instinctively have to do it.


Lee? Murray? Carr? Claiborne? Heard a lot of good things about Lissemore, Carter. We know Smith stayed after practice last year working with Larry Allen quite often and did the same this year staying over to work with Callahan as he made the adjustment to left tackle.

Of course, that's not including vets like Witten, Ware and Romo who we know are constantly in the film room, weight room, etc.
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Northland


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
Northland wrote:
mco65 wrote:
Quote:
Who remembers Michael Irvin, after a night of fun and festivities, showing up for practice and challenging anyone to outwork him?

A Hall of Famer leading by example. Not expecting anyone to do anything that he was not going to do and not getting outworked or out hustled by anybody.

That is the sort of leadership this team has lacked for years and continues to lack.


For one thing, what Irvin possessed was RARE! I give him more credit than any other player for the Cowboys success in the early 90s.. You can't pick up a HOF player with that kind of leadership in every draft or every decade of drafts for that matter. You certainly can't go up to any one player on the team today and say you have to lead like Irvin did.. most can't, or better yet, none can..

The Cowboys definitely lack this kind of leadership as do 99% of the teams in the NFL today. That doesn't mean they can't win.. They can, they just have to do it without a Michael Irvin type of leader on the team.

I think Garrett could do himself a favor by talking with his teams leaders. He knows who they are. He could encourage them to talk up the younger players more... Perhaps he already has... who knows.


No argument about Irvin's rare abilties, drive, and leadership. But what current leader will set, or is setting the work ethic standard on our club? Who is first to practice and last to leave, and outworking everyone else regardless of status or reputation? There just seems to be something missing from this club in those "unmeasurable" qualities and characteristics that don't show up on a stat sheet but mean so much. I don't think it is up to Garrett to talk with the teams leaders and get them to talk to the younger players more. They just instinctively have to do it.


Lee? Murray? Carr? Claiborne? Heard a lot of good things about Lissemore, Carter. We know Smith stayed after practice last year working with Larry Allen quite often and did the same this year staying over to work with Callahan as he made the adjustment to left tackle.

Of course, that's not including vets like Witten, Ware and Romo who we know are constantly in the film room, weight room, etc.


Very true Des82, but something is missing on this club. If it wasn't why has mediocrity become our standard? Why has coming up short when it matters most become our calling card?
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Calvert28


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mco65 wrote:
Quote:
Who remembers Michael Irvin, after a night of fun and festivities, showing up for practice and challenging anyone to outwork him?

A Hall of Famer leading by example. Not expecting anyone to do anything that he was not going to do and not getting outworked or out hustled by anybody.

That is the sort of leadership this team has lacked for years and continues to lack.


For one thing, what Irvin possessed was RARE! I give him more credit than any other player for the Cowboys success in the early 90s.. You can't pick up a HOF player with that kind of leadership in every draft or every decade of drafts for that matter. You certainly can't go up to any one player on the team today and say you have to lead like Irvin did.. most can't, or better yet, none can..

The Cowboys definitely lack this kind of leadership as do 99% of the teams in the NFL today. That doesn't mean they can't win.. They can, they just have to do it without a Michael Irvin type of leader on the team.

I think Garrett could do himself a favor by talking with his teams leaders. He knows who they are. He could encourage them to talk up the younger players more... Perhaps he already has... who knows.


Lead them all the way to rehab too. Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Northland


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent point Calvert. Irvin was no saint that's for sure (putting it mildly actually). But Jimmy would overlook transgressions if a guy delivered on Sunday.
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Calvert28


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Northland wrote:
Excellent point Calvert. Irvin was no saint that's for sure (putting it mildly actually). But Jimmy would overlook transgressions if a guy delivered on Sunday.


But Landry didn't.

Either way, they both found guys that performed and lead by example.

If JG truly has that type of ability, his talent is being wasted.
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TheStarStillShines


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another week, another tough loss.

I liked that JG stuck with the running game this week even when the team was down by 8. The playcalling was pretty good actually with more playaction passes (although the team needs to work on disguising this better) and runs on 3rd downs.

Now, clock and game management is a different story. I still cannot believe the team didn't run another play with 20-25 seconds remaining on the clock. At the very least, the team could have ran the ball to place the ball in the middle of the field.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheStarStillShines wrote:
Another week, another tough loss.

I liked that JG stuck with the running game this week even when the team was down by 8. The playcalling was pretty good actually with more playaction passes (although the team needs to work on disguising this better) and runs on 3rd downs.

Now, clock and game management is a different story. I still cannot believe the team didn't run another play with 20-25 seconds remaining on the clock. At the very least, the team could have ran the ball to place the ball in the middle of the field.


What's worse, SSS, is that this is the third time we've been in a position like this and lost each time because Garrett was fine with attempting a 50+ yard field goal rather than attempting to shorten the field and use the remaining time outs. Heck, last year's Arizona game should've resonated. But it didn't. Not with him.
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If mediocrity is your SuperBowl then Garrett is your Lombardi.
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WareWolf94


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
TheStarStillShines wrote:
Another week, another tough loss.

I liked that JG stuck with the running game this week even when the team was down by 8. The playcalling was pretty good actually with more playaction passes (although the team needs to work on disguising this better) and runs on 3rd downs.

Now, clock and game management is a different story. I still cannot believe the team didn't run another play with 20-25 seconds remaining on the clock. At the very least, the team could have ran the ball to place the ball in the middle of the field.


What's worse, SSS, is that this is the third time we've been in a position like this and lost each time because Garrett was fine with attempting a 50+ yard field goal rather than attempting to shorten the field and use the remaining time outs. Heck, last year's Arizona game should've resonated. But it didn't. Not with him.


And if they hurried a play call and the play itself and it wound up being a negative play or even a turnover you would find a way to blame Garrett for forcing extra yards.

Get Over It. He missed the FG, we had a chance to win and it went wide left. It happens.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WareWolf94 wrote:
And if they hurried a play call and the play itself and it wound up being a negative play or even a turnover you would find a way to blame Garrett for forcing extra yards.


No, I would not. And the reason I wouldn't is because he'd be doing what he's supposed to be doing: going for the jugular and attempting to either score a TD or make the field shorter for his kicker.

Quote:
Get Over It. He missed the FG, we had a chance to win and it went wide left. It happens.


And you're missing the point of what a coach's responsibilities are. It isn't about making or missing the kick. It's about attempting to do what it takes in crunch time to put your team in the best position to win. Standing around after a none yard pass with your pecker in your hands is not putting your team in the best position to win. That's urinating down your leg because your inexperience prevented you from making a decision to advance the football.
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Northland wrote:
If mediocrity is your SuperBowl then Garrett is your Lombardi.
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WareWolf94


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
WareWolf94 wrote:
And if they hurried a play call and the play itself and it wound up being a negative play or even a turnover you would find a way to blame Garrett for forcing extra yards.


No, I would not. And the reason I wouldn't is because he'd be doing what he's supposed to be doing: going for the jugular and attempting to either score a TD or make the field shorter for his kicker.

Quote:
Get Over It. He missed the FG, we had a chance to win and it went wide left. It happens.


And you're missing the point of what a coach's responsibilities are. It isn't about making or missing the kick. It's about attempting to do what it takes in crunch time to put your team in the best position to win. Standing around after a none yard pass with your pecker in your hands is not putting your team in the best position to win. That's urinating down your leg because your inexperience prevented you from making a decision to advance the football.


So if he made the kick, would you be complaining? Or are you just finding reasons to complain. Its a weekly trend, I'm keeping a chart so I just want to record my data.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WareWolf94 wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
WareWolf94 wrote:
And if they hurried a play call and the play itself and it wound up being a negative play or even a turnover you would find a way to blame Garrett for forcing extra yards.


No, I would not. And the reason I wouldn't is because he'd be doing what he's supposed to be doing: going for the jugular and attempting to either score a TD or make the field shorter for his kicker.

Quote:
Get Over It. He missed the FG, we had a chance to win and it went wide left. It happens.


And you're missing the point of what a coach's responsibilities are. It isn't about making or missing the kick. It's about attempting to do what it takes in crunch time to put your team in the best position to win. Standing around after a none yard pass with your pecker in your hands is not putting your team in the best position to win. That's urinating down your leg because your inexperience prevented you from making a decision to advance the football.


So if he made the kick, would you be complaining? Or are you just finding reasons to complain. Its a weekly trend, I'm keeping a chart so I just want to record my data.


I said in a different thread that I still would've been upset with Garrett for not managing the clock but would be happy with the win. Making the kick wouldn't discount the fact that Garrett made yet another poor decision as a coach and is continually proving the NFL world that he has no business being a head coach because this is the third time that he's done the same thing in the same situation. Good coaches learn from their mistakes. They don't repeat them. So not mentioning it would be apologizing for Garrett's incompetence, and I am never willing to give someone a pass for being incompetent.
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TheStarStillShines


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WareWolf94 wrote:
So if he made the kick, would you be complaining? Or are you just finding reasons to complain. Its a weekly trend, I'm keeping a chart so I just want to record my data.


I would be for the reasons Plan listed.

If a head coach cannot correct his own mistakes, how do you expect him to fix mistakes that the team consistently makes each game? There's just something missing from JG as a head coach. He talks about discipline and improvement, yet he hasn't practiced nor demonstrated any of these things.
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acowboys62


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fantastic article I think. And I agree with some parts and disagree with others, but I think everyone needs to read this with an open mind.

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/8510419/dallas-cowboys-jerry-jones-needs-keep-jason-garrett-coach-learns-win

I didn't watch the video though, not sure if they just talk about the same stuff or what.
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