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| Which qb would you want for a big game? |
| Brady |
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61% |
[ 78 ] |
| Manning |
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38% |
[ 49 ] |
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| Total Votes : 127 |
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reckless123
Joined: 02 Jun 2011
Posts: 5602
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 Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| Gmen wrote: | | It depends on the offense you plan on running, and who you are surrounding each QB with for the game. With Gilbride's offense I'd definitely rather have Eli. Brady never really had a tremendous arm, and at this point in his career Eli is a better deep passer. I don't think Brady's numbers would be so pretty if he was asked to stretch the field like Eli is in this offense. Brady's job is basically to make the correct read, make the quick and often times very easy throw, and let the talent of Gronkowski, Hernandez and Welker take over. Like Brees, Brady is a basically a dink and dunk quarterback. |
backlash in 3...2...1...
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Gmen
Joined: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 15066
Location: Myyyyy precioussss
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| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| reckless123 wrote: | | Gmen wrote: | | It depends on the offense you plan on running, and who you are surrounding each QB with for the game. With Gilbride's offense I'd definitely rather have Eli. Brady never really had a tremendous arm, and at this point in his career Eli is a better deep passer. I don't think Brady's numbers would be so pretty if he was asked to stretch the field like Eli is in this offense. Brady's job is basically to make the correct read, make the quick and often times very easy throw, and let the talent of Gronkowski, Hernandez and Welker take over. Like Brees, Brady is a basically a dink and dunk quarterback. |
backlash in 3...2...1... |
I guess what I'm saying is that if I wanted somebody to throw the football through the swinging tire, ala the viagra commercial, I'd take Brady. If I wanted somebody to throw the ball over the fence, I'd take Eli.
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"Has courage and poise. In my opinion, most of all, he has that quality you can't define. Call it magic."
- Ernie Accorsi scouting report of Eli |
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dahobofest
Joined: 20 Jun 2012
Posts: 839
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| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| I need more details to make a decision. Is this Eli with or without his rabbit's foot? |
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Pats#1
Joined: 19 Aug 2011
Posts: 1923
Location: Plymouth, MA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| Gmen wrote: | | It depends on the offense you plan on running, and who you are surrounding each QB with for the game. With Gilbride's offense I'd definitely rather have Eli. Brady never really had a tremendous arm, and at this point in his career Eli is a better deep passer. I don't think Brady's numbers would be so pretty if he was asked to stretch the field like Eli is in this offense. Brady's job is basically to make the correct read, make the quick and often times very easy throw, and let the talent of Gronkowski, Hernandez and Welker take over. Like Brees, Brady is a basically a dink and dunk quarterback. |
I'd attempt to argue with you...but your homerism of eli, and hate for Brady, would obviously cause this conversation to simply end in me wondering why I even tried.
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| Richter wrote: | | Tzimisce wrote: | | ...too bad she's dead... |
Oh right, like we're now supposed to believe that's your barrier for entry... |
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Malik
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
Posts: 2837
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| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| Gmen wrote: | | It depends on the offense you plan on running, and who you are surrounding each QB with for the game. With Gilbride's offense I'd definitely rather have Eli. Brady never really had a tremendous arm, and at this point in his career Eli is a better deep passer. I don't think Brady's numbers would be so pretty if he was asked to stretch the field like Eli is in this offense. Brady's job is basically to make the correct read, make the quick and often times very easy throw, and let the talent of Gronkowski, Hernandez and Welker take over. Like Brees, Brady is a basically a dink and dunk quarterback. |
What? Gronk and Hernandez have only been there for 2 years and were used extensively for 1 thus far. Why are you boiling down Brady's entire career as passer to just last season? He was able to stretch the field well enough with Moss. |
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Gmen
Joined: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 15066
Location: Myyyyy precioussss
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| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| Pats#1 wrote: | | Gmen wrote: | | It depends on the offense you plan on running, and who you are surrounding each QB with for the game. With Gilbride's offense I'd definitely rather have Eli. Brady never really had a tremendous arm, and at this point in his career Eli is a better deep passer. I don't think Brady's numbers would be so pretty if he was asked to stretch the field like Eli is in this offense. Brady's job is basically to make the correct read, make the quick and often times very easy throw, and let the talent of Gronkowski, Hernandez and Welker take over. Like Brees, Brady is a basically a dink and dunk quarterback. |
I'd attempt to argue with you...but your homerism of eli, and hate for Brady, would obviously cause this conversation to simply end in me wondering why I even tried. |
What reason would a Giants fan have to hate Brady? 
_________________
"Has courage and poise. In my opinion, most of all, he has that quality you can't define. Call it magic."
- Ernie Accorsi scouting report of Eli |
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Pats#1
Joined: 19 Aug 2011
Posts: 1923
Location: Plymouth, MA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Gmen wrote: | | Pats#1 wrote: | | Gmen wrote: | | It depends on the offense you plan on running, and who you are surrounding each QB with for the game. With Gilbride's offense I'd definitely rather have Eli. Brady never really had a tremendous arm, and at this point in his career Eli is a better deep passer. I don't think Brady's numbers would be so pretty if he was asked to stretch the field like Eli is in this offense. Brady's job is basically to make the correct read, make the quick and often times very easy throw, and let the talent of Gronkowski, Hernandez and Welker take over. Like Brees, Brady is a basically a dink and dunk quarterback. |
I'd attempt to argue with you...but your homerism of eli, and hate for Brady, would obviously cause this conversation to simply end in me wondering why I even tried. |
What reason would a Giants fan have to hate Brady? |
Because you know deep down that no matter what Eli does in his career he will never be considered better than Brady
_________________
| Richter wrote: | | Tzimisce wrote: | | ...too bad she's dead... |
Oh right, like we're now supposed to believe that's your barrier for entry... |
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Gmen
Joined: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 15066
Location: Myyyyy precioussss
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| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Malik wrote: | | Gmen wrote: | | It depends on the offense you plan on running, and who you are surrounding each QB with for the game. With Gilbride's offense I'd definitely rather have Eli. Brady never really had a tremendous arm, and at this point in his career Eli is a better deep passer. I don't think Brady's numbers would be so pretty if he was asked to stretch the field like Eli is in this offense. Brady's job is basically to make the correct read, make the quick and often times very easy throw, and let the talent of Gronkowski, Hernandez and Welker take over. Like Brees, Brady is a basically a dink and dunk quarterback. |
What? Gronk and Hernandez have only been there for 2 years and were used extensively for 1 thus far. Why are you boiling down Brady's entire career as passer to just last season? He was able to stretch the field well enough with Moss. |
And before that, it was Welker taking the long handoffs.. errr passes. Yeah, the Patriots threw the ball downfield for one or two years when Moss was there. But for the most part, their offense has consisted of short, quick passes. The QB gets completions and yards for what amounts to basically a long handoff. So everyone looks and Brady's and Brees' great stat lines and thinks they are head and shoulders above everyone else. They are not. They are just playing in a stat inflating offense.
Brees has been asked to throw the ball downfield more this year, presumably because they have been trailing more than in the past, but check out some of these numbers for this season of pass attempts thrown 20+ yards. Just chose some random QBs...
Eli : 38 (3 games instead of 2)
Brees : 35
Romo : 24
Stafford : 24
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Brady : 8
Brady has attempted 8 passes over 20 yards this season. And last year it was embarrassingly low as well, but SI.com doesn't have previous year's stats available anymore so I can't tell you the exact number.
Bottom line : I believe Brady is made to look better than he really is. Not his fault because it's the offensive system he plays in. But If you remove his from the confines of his comfortable offense, IMO, he would look quite human.
_________________
"Has courage and poise. In my opinion, most of all, he has that quality you can't define. Call it magic."
- Ernie Accorsi scouting report of Eli |
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Gmen
Joined: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 15066
Location: Myyyyy precioussss
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| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Pats#1 wrote: | | Gmen wrote: | | Pats#1 wrote: | | I'd attempt to argue with you...but your homerism of eli, and hate for Brady, would obviously cause this conversation to simply end in me wondering why I even tried. |
What reason would a Giants fan have to hate Brady? |
Because you know deep down that no matter what Eli does in his career he will never be considered better than Brady |
Trust me when I say this. Giants fans have no animosity towards Brady. Why would we hate a QB that we beat in two Superbowls? If he beat us, that would be a different story. I'm just giving my honest opinion, and I don't single out only Brady.
_________________
"Has courage and poise. In my opinion, most of all, he has that quality you can't define. Call it magic."
- Ernie Accorsi scouting report of Eli |
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Malik
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
Posts: 2837
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| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Gmen wrote: | | Malik wrote: | | Gmen wrote: | | It depends on the offense you plan on running, and who you are surrounding each QB with for the game. With Gilbride's offense I'd definitely rather have Eli. Brady never really had a tremendous arm, and at this point in his career Eli is a better deep passer. I don't think Brady's numbers would be so pretty if he was asked to stretch the field like Eli is in this offense. Brady's job is basically to make the correct read, make the quick and often times very easy throw, and let the talent of Gronkowski, Hernandez and Welker take over. Like Brees, Brady is a basically a dink and dunk quarterback. |
What? Gronk and Hernandez have only been there for 2 years and were used extensively for 1 thus far. Why are you boiling down Brady's entire career as passer to just last season? He was able to stretch the field well enough with Moss. |
And before that, it was Welker taking the long handoffs.. errr passes. Yeah, the Patriots threw the ball downfield for one or two years when Moss was there. But for the most part, their offense has consisted of short, quick passes. The QB gets completions and yards for what amounts to basically a long handoff. So everyone looks and Brady's and Brees' great stat lines and thinks they are head and shoulders above everyone else. They are not. They are just playing in a stat inflating offense.
Brees has been asked to throw the ball downfield more this year, presumably because they have been trailing more than in the past, but check out some of these numbers for this season of pass attempts thrown 20+ yards. Just chose some random QBs...
Eli : 38 (3 games instead of 2)
Brees : 35
Romo : 24
Stafford : 24
....
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Brady : 8
Brady has attempted 8 passes over 20 yards this season. And last year it was embarrassingly low as well, but SI.com doesn't have previous year's stats available anymore so I can't tell you the exact number.
Bottom line : I believe Brady is made to look better than he really is. Not his fault because it's the offensive system he plays in. But If you remove his from the confines of his comfortable offense, IMO, he would look quite human. |
Uhh Brees throws downfield plenty. http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/10/going-deep/ |
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FirstDownFaulk
Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 2993
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Gmen wrote: | | Malik wrote: | | Gmen wrote: | | It depends on the offense you plan on running, and who you are surrounding each QB with for the game. With Gilbride's offense I'd definitely rather have Eli. Brady never really had a tremendous arm, and at this point in his career Eli is a better deep passer. I don't think Brady's numbers would be so pretty if he was asked to stretch the field like Eli is in this offense. Brady's job is basically to make the correct read, make the quick and often times very easy throw, and let the talent of Gronkowski, Hernandez and Welker take over. Like Brees, Brady is a basically a dink and dunk quarterback. |
What? Gronk and Hernandez have only been there for 2 years and were used extensively for 1 thus far. Why are you boiling down Brady's entire career as passer to just last season? He was able to stretch the field well enough with Moss. |
And before that, it was Welker taking the long handoffs.. errr passes. Yeah, the Patriots threw the ball downfield for one or two years when Moss was there. But for the most part, their offense has consisted of short, quick passes. The QB gets completions and yards for what amounts to basically a long handoff. So everyone looks and Brady's and Brees' great stat lines and thinks they are head and shoulders above everyone else. They are not. They are just playing in a stat inflating offense.
Brees has been asked to throw the ball downfield more this year, presumably because they have been trailing more than in the past, but check out some of these numbers for this season of pass attempts thrown 20+ yards. Just chose some random QBs...
Eli : 38 (3 games instead of 2)
Brees : 35
Romo : 24
Stafford : 24
....
....
Brady : 8
Brady has attempted 8 passes over 20 yards this season. And last year it was embarrassingly low as well, but SI.com doesn't have previous year's stats available anymore so I can't tell you the exact number.
Bottom line : I believe Brady is made to look better than he really is. Not his fault because it's the offensive system he plays in. But If you remove his from the confines of his comfortable offense, IMO, he would look quite human. |
So you consider it a "bad" thing that he doesn't force the ball downfield and takes what the defense gives him (which is usually the throws underneath coverage) ??
This is why Brady's turnover numbers are so low....he's smart with the football and you clowns try to spin it like its a bad thing. Brady throws an interception once every 47 attempts whereas Eli throws one once every 30 attempts. Tom Brady is also two defensive stops away from having FIVE game-winning Super Bowl drives and has 35 in his career (one every 4.5 games) and Manning has 26 in his career (one every 4.7 games).
I'll take the guy who is more consistent and smart with the football any day of the week, and twice on Sunday's, and that's Tom Brady.
_________________
Stevan Ridley, Att: 225, Yds: 1010, Y/A: 4.0, TD:9
Last edited by FirstDownFaulk on Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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FirstDownFaulk
Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 2993
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| x0x wrote: | Brady did not play well enough in those Super Bowls and you guys know it.
Eli Manning did what few QBs can do. Picking him for now. |
What does that even mean ?? He played well enough when it mattered (two "game winning" drives, before it was trumped by Eli's efforts) and had a 3.0 TD/INT ratio in the games.
If Asante Samuel catches the terrible pass by Manning, and Wes Welker catches the ball....this isn't even a debate because Brady would have five Super Bowls.
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Stevan Ridley, Att: 225, Yds: 1010, Y/A: 4.0, TD:9
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Shockey1979
Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 18266
Location: RI/MA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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Brady is the better QB. But Eli just seems to play at his best in big games. This isn't a who is better overall debate. It's who would you take in a big game. I think Gmen hit the nail on the head though. If it's the Giants type offense with a vertical passing game...easily Eli. If it's a short intermediate type passing game...easily Brady. Brady's deep ball isn't very accurate and he doesn't like taking hits he would struggle in the Giants offense. Likewise Eli's erratic throwing at times would not allow the Pats offense to function like it does. Each QB is perfect for the offense they run.
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A lion roars in the darkness only he holds the key. A light to free me from my burden and grant me life eternally |
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Pats#1
Joined: 19 Aug 2011
Posts: 1923
Location: Plymouth, MA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Shockey1979 wrote: | | Brady is the better QB. But Eli just seems to play at his best in big games. This isn't a who is better overall debate. It's who would you take in a big game. I think Gmen hit the nail on the head though. If it's the Giants type offense with a vertical passing game...easily Eli. If it's a short intermediate type passing game...easily Brady. Brady's deep ball isn't very accurate and he doesn't like taking hits he would struggle in the Giants offense. Likewise Eli's erratic throwing at times would not allow the Pats offense to function like it does. Each QB is perfect for the offense they run. |
I can't believe people actually still use this as some type of excuse....as if any QB likes getting hit.
Brady is as tough a QB as they come, and has gotten up from harder hits then many other QBs wouldn't have been able to.
Just because the patriots org and brady don't brag about him being tough, like a lot of other orgs do, doesn't mean he struggles under pressure or taking hits.
A QB who "struggles under pressure" doesn't make it to the superbowl 5 times...end of story.
_________________
| Richter wrote: | | Tzimisce wrote: | | ...too bad she's dead... |
Oh right, like we're now supposed to believe that's your barrier for entry... |
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PatriotsWin!
Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 15522
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| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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Eli relies too much on his WRs. I can't count how many times his Wrs have come down with an ugly deep ball and saved Eli from a sure INT. Take away his WRs and replace them with the guys Brady has had to throw to for most of his career (not including Moss) and Eli would not be a SB champ.
If only Asante had come down with that game ending INT in the SB, Eli wouldn't be considered so cluth, probably the opposite. Luck has played a big role in Eli and the Giants success in those SBs. Brady drove the Pats down the field in both Superbowls to take the lead late, only to have the Giants luck out in the end. I'm not hating, it's just the truth.
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