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What would the team look like in a 4-3?
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JHawk24


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:34 pm    Post subject: What would the team look like in a 4-3? Reply with quote

How would you line up the front 7, and do you think we would be more productive?
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Rearviewmirror


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hali (RE), Dorsey, Poe, Jackson (LE)
DJ (weak side), Belcher, Houston (strong side)

no. We'd be attrocious.
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EB29


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would not look good. At all. We have guys that are pretty much limited to the 3/4 with the exception of Poe and maybe Dorsey.
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ArrowheadRage58


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rearviewmirror wrote:
Hali (RE), Dorsey, Poe, Jackson (LE)
DJ (weak side), Belcher, Houston (strong side)

no. We'd be attrocious.


It'd be a good run defense...atleast the front 4 vs the run...Belcher and Houston just wouldn't work....and Tyson would be a liability when they pass.
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would agree with the other comments - it wouldn't be a great fit with the current personnel with the possible Pete Carroll type of 4-3. With that said I am not even sure we would fit that scheme as we lack the "elephant" explosiver rusher (Chris Clemons). I just don't think Tamba Hali would have developed into near the impact player as a 4-3 DE as he has as a 3-4 OLB. Tyson Jackson is the glaring weakness as a 4-3 at end. He might be a decent fit as a jumbo end in a Carroll defense or as a DT (not sure on that though).
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Rumless


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EB29 wrote:
Would not look good. At all. We have guys that are pretty much limited to the 3/4 with the exception of Poe and maybe Dorsey.

Hali, DJ, and Dorsey all played in the 4-3... the idea of Tyson at LE is unsexy, as is Belcher at MLB (gag).

But if we blow up, I would much rather go back to a 4-3 than try to retool our 3-4.
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bigballin


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see it more like this...

DT- Poe, Dorsey, and Jackson

DE- Hali, Houston

MLB- DJ

OLB- Belcher

Really if we got another good balanced LB we could play a 4-3/3-4 hybrid and be pretty good.

I think Poe and Dorsey would be beastly in the 4-3.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what about Dorsey makes you think he'll be good in a 4-3. He gets no push. He never gets push. He is good at taking 2 blockers and sealing the edge in a 3-4. He seems to have none of the explosiveness that he showed in college
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onejayhawk


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EB29 wrote:
Would not look good. At all. We have guys that are pretty much limited to the 3/4 with the exception of Poe and maybe Dorsey.

Dorsey is out of place in a 3-4. Poe would work fine in a 4-3. It is the natural NT/UT pairing. Hali would be fine at DE. He has been before. The one that is out place is Tyson Jackson, but Allen Bailey could do it. DJ excells at WLB, but I might like him inside. Houston makes a very good SLB. Belcher or Studebaker at WLB.

That is a solid front 7. It would be very strong in the middle, but pass rush in the base set would take some adjustment. Hali was good but not outstanding as a 4-3 DRE. Poe was drafted as a pass rusher, and Dorsey was a monster penetrator in college, who was never asked to in the NFL. Bailey has the natural tools, but he is not a developed rusher. Needless to say, we could use the same nickel package we do now.

Rearviewmirror wrote:
what about Dorsey makes you think he'll be good in a 4-3. He gets no push. He never gets push. He is good at taking 2 blockers and sealing the edge in a 3-4. He seems to have none of the explosiveness that he showed in college

This is one of things I did not like about Herm. Dorsey was playing 30 pounds lighter in college. Herm made him into a 2 gap from day 1. Dorsey added the weight and took right to the role. We have TJ for comparison on the learning curve. There is a reason he has alway drawn so many double teams. Dorsey is a natural, which is why he was considered a steal at #5.

J
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Jakuvious


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

onejayhawk wrote:

This is one of things I did not like about Herm. Dorsey was playing 30 pounds lighter in college. Herm made him into a 2 gap from day 1. Dorsey added the weight and took right to the role. We have TJ for comparison on the learning curve. There is a reason he has alway drawn so many double teams. Dorsey is a natural, which is why he was considered a steal at #5.

J


What??? You think Dorsey played DT in college at 267 pounds? The guy is basically the same weight now that he was in college.
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

onejayhawk wrote:
EB29 wrote:
Would not look good. At all. We have guys that are pretty much limited to the 3/4 with the exception of Poe and maybe Dorsey.

Dorsey is out of place in a 3-4. Poe would work fine in a 4-3. It is the natural NT/UT pairing. Hali would be fine at DE. He has been before. The one that is out place is Tyson Jackson, but Allen Bailey could do it. DJ excells at WLB, but I might like him inside. Houston makes a very good SLB. Belcher or Studebaker at WLB.

That is a solid front 7. It would be very strong in the middle, but pass rush in the base set would take some adjustment. Hali was good but not outstanding as a 4-3 DRE. Poe was drafted as a pass rusher, and Dorsey was a monster penetrator in college, who was never asked to in the NFL. Bailey has the natural tools, but he is not a developed rusher. Needless to say, we could use the same nickel package we do now.

Rearviewmirror wrote:
what about Dorsey makes you think he'll be good in a 4-3. He gets no push. He never gets push. He is good at taking 2 blockers and sealing the edge in a 3-4. He seems to have none of the explosiveness that he showed in college

This is one of things I did not like about Herm. Dorsey was playing 30 pounds lighter in college. Herm made him into a 2 gap from day 1. Dorsey added the weight and took right to the role. We have TJ for comparison on the learning curve. There is a reason he has alway drawn so many double teams. Dorsey is a natural, which is why he was considered a steal at #5.

J


A steal at #5.... c'mon man.

Dorsey is almost the same weight he played at LSU. You are making things up again. Guys is a good edge player against the run. He;s got no explosiveness to his game.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dorsey was considered a steal at the time.
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simonwayne


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rearviewmirror wrote:
Dorsey was considered a steal at the time.


Yeah he was hyped about the same as Suh was when he came out.
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HiccupGuy


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rearviewmirror wrote:
Dorsey was considered a steal at the time.


Yup, I remember that. I also remember disliking the pick but the 2 players I wanted were drafted before us.

Anyways the steal of that draft was either Flowers or JC or Carr.
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
onejayhawk wrote:
EB29 wrote:
Would not look good. At all. We have guys that are pretty much limited to the 3/4 with the exception of Poe and maybe Dorsey.

Dorsey is out of place in a 3-4. Poe would work fine in a 4-3. It is the natural NT/UT pairing. Hali would be fine at DE. He has been before. The one that is out place is Tyson Jackson, but Allen Bailey could do it. DJ excells at WLB, but I might like him inside. Houston makes a very good SLB. Belcher or Studebaker at WLB.

That is a solid front 7. It would be very strong in the middle, but pass rush in the base set would take some adjustment. Hali was good but not outstanding as a 4-3 DRE. Poe was drafted as a pass rusher, and Dorsey was a monster penetrator in college, who was never asked to in the NFL. Bailey has the natural tools, but he is not a developed rusher. Needless to say, we could use the same nickel package we do now.

Rearviewmirror wrote:
what about Dorsey makes you think he'll be good in a 4-3. He gets no push. He never gets push. He is good at taking 2 blockers and sealing the edge in a 3-4. He seems to have none of the explosiveness that he showed in college

This is one of things I did not like about Herm. Dorsey was playing 30 pounds lighter in college. Herm made him into a 2 gap from day 1. Dorsey added the weight and took right to the role. We have TJ for comparison on the learning curve. There is a reason he has alway drawn so many double teams. Dorsey is a natural, which is why he was considered a steal at #5.

J


A steal at #5.... c'mon man.

Dorsey is almost the same weight he played at LSU. You are making things up again. Guys is a good edge player against the run. He;s got no explosiveness to his game.


pookie,
Actually coming out of LSU, Dorsey had good short area quickness, strength, and anchor. I think his best position would have been as a penetrating 4-3 defensive tackle. His short area quickness could have allowed him to penetrate gaps and while I never expected him to be a big interior sack defender, I did anticipate him being solid at getting into rushing lanes or holding the point of attack in run defense and helping to push the pocket from the interior. As a 5-tech defensive end, I think he is miscast as his short area quickness was never able to be used as an asset because his main priority is controlling two gaps. His ability to anchor has been his best attribute. But because he lines up as a 5-tech, he is too far out to have taken advantage of his short area quickness. That IMO is why he shows little pass rush from that position.

This is all just my opinion though.
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