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WHY COULDN'T OUR WRs GET OPEN??
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7684
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IronMike84 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
If our defense plays like it did tonight it is not a bad idea to defer. Ditka only deferred because of weather even with an incredible defense which terrorized offenses.

I love Ditka but come on, that was almost 30 years ago...
It does not matter if Ditka was 100 yrs ago, tactics do not change. When you are playing a young Qb, a team which fumbles or there is rainy, wet weather I have no problem with deferring and even prefer it when you have a destroying defense. But, 2012 in fine weather in GB, NEVER.

BTW there is no better person to consult about the game of football in all its areas than Mike Ditka. He can tell you all there is about winning.
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blkwdw13


Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 1579
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
blkwdw13 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
blkwdw13 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
How many defers were there yesterday? I saw none. It usually doesn't matter so it isn't usually wrong but sometimes it DOES matter and it is crazy to give Rodger/Brady/Breese/Manning the ball first if you don't have to. You are only asking for trouble. I have yet to see anything indicating that coaches take the ball any less than 90% of the time. Even 2 defers per week would show me to be mistaken.


Do you realize how stupid the bolded part is, it's the same as saying "I have yet to see anything indicating that coaches defer any less than 90% of the time." Because there isn't anything that tracks it.
I have been watching professional football for over forty years. My eyes tell me that coaches take the ball 90%+ of the time. I track it.


I have been watching the NFL for 30 years, my eyes tell me coaches defer 90% of the time. I track it. Rolling Eyes
Why would you want to make yourself look foolish?

I generally do not care about deferring just not to GB. But it is clear that it rarely happens (1 out of 10 maybe). Claiming otherwise is very odd.


Just to show how foolish you are right now. Out of the 5 games this season the Bears or their opponents have elected to defer 4 times the only team not to defer was Jacksonville, so in other words 4/5 times.

Now I picked a random team Tampa Bay and guess what they or their opponents have elected to defer in all 5 of their games, bringing the total to 9/10 times. Guess what that means yep you got it 90%.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=321014027
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=320930027
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=320909027
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=320916019
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=320923006
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=321007030
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=320909003
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=320913009
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=320923003
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=321001006
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7684
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blkwdw13 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
blkwdw13 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
blkwdw13 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
How many defers were there yesterday? I saw none. It usually doesn't matter so it isn't usually wrong but sometimes it DOES matter and it is crazy to give Rodger/Brady/Breese/Manning the ball first if you don't have to. You are only asking for trouble. I have yet to see anything indicating that coaches take the ball any less than 90% of the time. Even 2 defers per week would show me to be mistaken.


Do you realize how stupid the bolded part is, it's the same as saying "I have yet to see anything indicating that coaches defer any less than 90% of the time." Because there isn't anything that tracks it.
I have been watching professional football for over forty years. My eyes tell me that coaches take the ball 90%+ of the time. I track it.


I have been watching the NFL for 30 years, my eyes tell me coaches defer 90% of the time. I track it. Rolling Eyes
Why would you want to make yourself look foolish?

I generally do not care about deferring just not to GB. But it is clear that it rarely happens (1 out of 10 maybe). Claiming otherwise is very odd.


Just to show how foolish you are right now. Out of the 5 games this season the Bears or their opponents have elected to defer 4 times the only team not to defer was Jacksonville, so in other words 4/5 times.

Now I picked a random team Tampa Bay and guess what they or their opponents have elected to defer in all 5 of their games, bringing the total to 9/10 times. Guess what that means yep you got it 90%.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=321014027
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=320930027
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=320909027
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=320916019
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=320923006
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=321007030
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=320909003
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=320913009
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=320923003
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=321001006
Deferring against a crappy team is one of the reasons I gave for deferring. Nevertheless it is rare. When was the last time a team deferred to the Bears? I can't recall one time that has happened. I would also wager that the only time anyone has deferred to GB in the Rodgers era was the Bears. Or NE or NO.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7684
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blkwdw13 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
blkwdw13 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
blkwdw13 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
How many defers were there yesterday? I saw none. It usually doesn't matter so it isn't usually wrong but sometimes it DOES matter and it is crazy to give Rodger/Brady/Breese/Manning the ball first if you don't have to. You are only asking for trouble. I have yet to see anything indicating that coaches take the ball any less than 90% of the time. Even 2 defers per week would show me to be mistaken.


Do you realize how stupid the bolded part is, it's the same as saying "I have yet to see anything indicating that coaches defer any less than 90% of the time." Because there isn't anything that tracks it.
I have been watching professional football for over forty years. My eyes tell me that coaches take the ball 90%+ of the time. I track it.


I have been watching the NFL for 30 years, my eyes tell me coaches defer 90% of the time. I track it. Rolling Eyes
Why would you want to make yourself look foolish?

I generally do not care about deferring just not to GB. But it is clear that it rarely happens (1 out of 10 maybe). Claiming otherwise is very odd.


Just to show how foolish you are right now. Out of the 5 games this season the Bears or their opponents have elected to defer 4 times the only team not to defer was Jacksonville, so in other words 4/5 times. Not sure exactly what this is intended to mean, but in the 5 games the Bears have played they deferred twice no one deferred to them. If it is intended to mean that the teams the Bears have played have deferred 3 times between them then it proves nothing that helps your argument.

Now I picked a random team Tampa Bay and guess what they or their opponents have elected to defer in all 5 of their games, bringing the total to 9/10 times. Guess what that means yep you got it 90%.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=321014027
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=320930027
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=320909027
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=320916019
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=320923006
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=321007030
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=320909003
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=320913009
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=320923003
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=321001006
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Superman(DH23)


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 18210
Location: Abdi on the sick sig
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
blkwdw13 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
blkwdw13 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
blkwdw13 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
How many defers were there yesterday? I saw none. It usually doesn't matter so it isn't usually wrong but sometimes it DOES matter and it is crazy to give Rodger/Brady/Breese/Manning the ball first if you don't have to. You are only asking for trouble. I have yet to see anything indicating that coaches take the ball any less than 90% of the time. Even 2 defers per week would show me to be mistaken.


Do you realize how stupid the bolded part is, it's the same as saying "I have yet to see anything indicating that coaches defer any less than 90% of the time." Because there isn't anything that tracks it.
I have been watching professional football for over forty years. My eyes tell me that coaches take the ball 90%+ of the time. I track it.


I have been watching the NFL for 30 years, my eyes tell me coaches defer 90% of the time. I track it. Rolling Eyes
Why would you want to make yourself look foolish?

I generally do not care about deferring just not to GB. But it is clear that it rarely happens (1 out of 10 maybe). Claiming otherwise is very odd.


Just to show how foolish you are right now. Out of the 5 games this season the Bears or their opponents have elected to defer 4 times the only team not to defer was Jacksonville, so in other words 4/5 times. Not sure exactly what this is intended to mean, but in the 5 games the Bears have played they deferred twice no one deferred to them. If it is intended to mean that the teams the Bears have played have deferred 3 times between them then it proves nothing that helps your argument.

Now I picked a random team Tampa Bay and guess what they or their opponents have elected to defer in all 5 of their games, bringing the total to 9/10 times. Guess what that means yep you got it 90%.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=321014027
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=320930027
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=320909027
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=320916019
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=320923006
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=321007030
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=320909003
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=320913009
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=320923003
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=321001006
Read the Links, The Bears deferred against DAL and GB, STL and IND both deferred to the Bears, JAX elected to take the ball, the worst team out of all, JAX...coincidence?
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Ahah Okay first of all Gamble was lost to IR this year but when healthy he proved to be 2nd only to Revis last season.
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Superman(DH23)


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 18210
Location: Abdi on the sick sig
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In week 6

Wash defers
ATL receives
CLE defers
MIA defers
NYJ defers
PHI defers
TB defers
DAL defers
ARI defers
SEA defers
SF receives
PIT defers
Hou receives
SD receives

Teams that deferred went 7-2, Teams that received went 2-2

Week 5
ARI defers
CIN defers
IND receives
KC receives
NYG receives
PIT defers
SEA defers
JAX receives
TEN receives
DEN receives
SF receives
SD receives
NYJ defer

teams that deferred went 2-3, teams that received went 3-5

Week 4
Bal defers
ATL receives
NE defers
MIN receives
SD receives
STL defers
SF receives
Hou receives
OAK defers
MIA defers
CIN defers
GB receives
Wash defers
NYG receives
CHI defers

Teams that deferred 6-2, Teams that received 5-1

Totals for 3 weeks

22 teams deferred
18 teams received

Teams that deferred went 15-7
Teams that received went 10-8

Conclusion: At best teams elect to receive 50% of the time (although the number appears to more 67% deferrals, but it proves definitively that teams don't elect to receive 90% of the time) Statiistically speaking teams that defer win 67% of their games, while teams that receive are barely above .500. And all this does is show how meaningless the coin toss is.

Now my original statement was coaches are creatures of habit and are known to almost always go one direction, for instance Lovie almost always defers. No team in this 3 week span both deferred and received, meaning they chose to go one direction and stick w/ it if given the opportunity.

Now that I've proved your theory wrong Al, can you please just give it up and admit that the coin toss is meaningless, and you were just upset w/ a bad loss and looking to place blame everywhere for it.

Thanks!
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Ahah Okay first of all Gamble was lost to IR this year but when healthy he proved to be 2nd only to Revis last season.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7684
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
In week 6

Wash defers
ATL receives
CLE defers
MIA defers
NYJ defers
PHI defers
TB defers
DAL defers
ARI defers
SEA defers
SF receives
PIT defers
Hou receives
SD receives

Teams that deferred went 7-2, Teams that received went 2-2

Week 5
ARI defers
CIN defers
IND receives
KC receives
NYG receives
PIT defers
SEA defers
JAX receives
TEN receives
DEN receives
SF receives
SD receives
NYJ defer

teams that deferred went 2-3, teams that received went 3-5

Week 4
Bal defers
ATL receives
NE defers
MIN receives
SD receives
STL defers
SF receives
Hou receives
OAK defers
MIA defers
CIN defers
GB receives
Wash defers
NYG receives
CHI defers

Teams that deferred 6-2, Teams that received 5-1

Totals for 3 weeks

22 teams deferred
18 teams received

Teams that deferred went 15-7
Teams that received went 10-8

Conclusion: At best teams elect to receive 50% of the time (although the number appears to more 67% deferrals, but it proves definitively that teams don't elect to receive 90% of the time) Statiistically speaking teams that defer win 67% of their games, while teams that receive are barely above .500. And all this does is show how meaningless the coin toss is.

Now my original statement was coaches are creatures of habit and are known to almost always go one direction, for instance Lovie almost always defers. No he does not. No team in this 3 week span both deferred and received, meaning they chose to go one direction and stick w/ it if given the opportunity.

Now that I've proved your theory wrong Al, can you please just give it up and admit that the coin toss is meaningless, and you were just upset w/ a bad loss and looking to place blame everywhere for it.

Thanks!
Recent experience does not prove that I am wrong about what I have seen in the 40+ yrs of watching the Bears. Perhaps it is becoming more common or there is some fad at present but it was not like that the rest of the time.

I don't care IN GENERAL, as I have repeatedly said, if the Bears defer EXCEPT when it is GB and the weather is good. That was not the only thing I was upset about in the Pecker game. I was FAR more upset about the lack of a running game, that is why we lost the game. They seem to have corrected that.
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Superman(DH23)


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 18210
Location: Abdi on the sick sig
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
In week 6

Wash defers
ATL receives
CLE defers
MIA defers
NYJ defers
PHI defers
TB defers
DAL defers
ARI defers
SEA defers
SF receives
PIT defers
Hou receives
SD receives

Teams that deferred went 7-2, Teams that received went 2-2

Week 5
ARI defers
CIN defers
IND receives
KC receives
NYG receives
PIT defers
SEA defers
JAX receives
TEN receives
DEN receives
SF receives
SD receives
NYJ defer

teams that deferred went 2-3, teams that received went 3-5

Week 4
Bal defers
ATL receives
NE defers
MIN receives
SD receives
STL defers
SF receives
Hou receives
OAK defers
MIA defers
CIN defers
GB receives
Wash defers
NYG receives
CHI defers

Teams that deferred 6-2, Teams that received 5-1

Totals for 3 weeks

22 teams deferred
18 teams received

Teams that deferred went 15-7
Teams that received went 10-8

Conclusion: At best teams elect to receive 50% of the time (although the number appears to more 67% deferrals, but it proves definitively that teams don't elect to receive 90% of the time) Statiistically speaking teams that defer win 67% of their games, while teams that receive are barely above .500. And all this does is show how meaningless the coin toss is.

Now my original statement was coaches are creatures of habit and are known to almost always go one direction, for instance Lovie almost always defers. No he does not. No team in this 3 week span both deferred and received, meaning they chose to go one direction and stick w/ it if given the opportunity.

Now that I've proved your theory wrong Al, can you please just give it up and admit that the coin toss is meaningless, and you were just upset w/ a bad loss and looking to place blame everywhere for it.

Thanks!
Recent experience does not prove that I am wrong about what I have seen in the 40+ yrs of watching the Bears. Perhaps it is becoming more common or there is some fad at present but it was not like that the rest of the time.

I don't care IN GENERAL, as I have repeatedly said, if the Bears defer EXCEPT when it is GB and the weather is good. That was not the only thing I was upset about in the Pecker game. I was FAR more upset about the lack of a running game, that is why we lost the game. They seem to have corrected that.
So we are in agreement then that the game was not over at the coin toss, right? That the coin toss is virtually meaningless.
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Ahah Okay first of all Gamble was lost to IR this year but when healthy he proved to be 2nd only to Revis last season.
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blkwdw13


Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 1579
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
Recent experience does not prove that I am wrong about what I have seen in the 40+ yrs of watching the Bears. Perhaps it is becoming more common or there is some fad at present but it was not like that the rest of the time.

I don't care IN GENERAL, as I have repeatedly said, if the Bears defer EXCEPT when it is GB and the weather is good. That was not the only thing I was upset about in the Pecker game. I was FAR more upset about the lack of a running game, that is why we lost the game. They seem to have corrected that.[/quote]

So you don't care except when it suits you, ok got it.
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willyallthewei


Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think people understand how horrible our offensive system is in its approach to throwing the football.

The packers in the week 2 game played only 2 man coverage for 80% of the snaps, and if you block your runningback and tightend vs. a 4 man rush, you end up with 3 receivers vs. 5 defensive backs.

I don't know how you get open vs. that consistently.

On the other hand you send out 5 wideouts like Martz did and you get Cutler injured in no time.

I wish we had a real O-line, honestly, I also wish we had a real O-coordinator.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7684
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

willyallthewei wrote:
I don't think people understand how horrible our offensive system is in its approach to throwing the football.

The packers in the week 2 game played only 2 man coverage for 80% of the snaps, and if you block your runningback and tightend vs. a 4 man rush, you end up with 3 receivers vs. 5 defensive backs.

I don't know how you get open vs. that consistently.

On the other hand you send out 5 wideouts like Martz did and you get Cutler injured in no time.

I wish we had a real O-line, honestly, I also wish we had a real O-coordinator.
The problem with the GB game was that they did not start out the game running the ball. If they had done so they would have made the Pack play the run; they would have neutralized Mathews; they would have given the line more confidence; opened up the play action. There appears to have been some learning from that experience.
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