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NickButera


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cellomac1212 wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
There is something I read about DA and why they chose an OC with zone blocking, he said that it is one of the hardest offense to prepare for. It's pretty smart once you think about it. We just have to execute. That's the biggest problem is the o-line doesn't execute.

Here's food for thought the last time we had zone blocking cable was the coach. He might be a big difference because the last time we ran it we ran it way better.


ZBS requires fast linemen and usually works well for the smaller lines around the league. We built a line of the big nasty linemen. They like to power block. Mcfadden does not want to wait to see a hole, he wants the ball at full speed charging into the hole that is designed to be there. This entire o line and rb system needs to be gotten rid of if we are going to stick with ZBS. I personally think coaching did not evaluate the talent very well as they should of seen this team is not capable of running the ZBS.


I've been thinking recently if this is something Allen wanted to start implementing this year... then cutting the fat and shoring up players we need replaced through the draft and another year of free agency. (Specifically meaning O-Line here)

Winning now is something everyone wants, but we all know Reggie's ultimate plan is build for long term success. And we all know Reggie made sure his coach is on the same page as himself. He may have though it acceptable risking a poor season this year to get the correct foundations in place. As bad as we're playing now, part of me is glad they aren't going to give up on their plan so soon. It's only week 2, and I'd love to see Reggie take this team through the process of bad to a yearly competitive team. The watching and waiting sucks though.
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SPaceGhost


Joined: 01 Mar 2008
Posts: 2272
Location: Alabama
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch8878 wrote:
Hue took over a team that was 8-8 under Tom Cable the previous year and went 8-8 and why should have Hue got another shot and not Tom Cable doesn't make any since.

Tom Cable had a 17-27 record but after Lane Kiffin left Cable went 4-8 to finish the season.

I would rather have Gruden back.

We want Chucky back. Razz


Cable was the furthest thing from a Head Coach the RAIDERS have ever had. Hue Jackson got 8 wins with a team that got crushed by injuries, offense and defense. That 'train wreck' of a deal that got us Palmer wasn't a 'train wreck', Palmer is lookin' good right now... no INT's, and still making headway with UDFA's like Streater or recent pickups like Hagan, and dealing with Knapp's ZBS which is giving him no help from the run game.

I understand McKenzie coming in and cleaning house, but the point of a GM is to keep a HC from making bad decisions like bringing in an OC who wants to run a ZBS when he has all the makings of a PBS and that worked very well the last few years.
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ch8878


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SPaceGhost wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
Hue took over a team that was 8-8 under Tom Cable the previous year and went 8-8 and why should have Hue got another shot and not Tom Cable doesn't make any since.

Tom Cable had a 17-27 record but after Lane Kiffin left Cable went 4-8 to finish the season.

I would rather have Gruden back.

We want Chucky back. Razz


Cable was the furthest thing from a Head Coach the RAIDERS have ever had. Hue Jackson got 8 wins with a team that got crushed by injuries, offense and defense. That 'train wreck' of a deal that got us Palmer wasn't a 'train wreck', Palmer is lookin' good right now... no INT's, and still making headway with UDFA's like Streater or recent pickups like Hagan, and dealing with Knapp's ZBS which is giving him no help from the run game.

I understand McKenzie coming in and cleaning house, but the point of a GM is to keep a HC from making bad decisions like bringing in an OC who wants to run a ZBS when he has all the makings of a PBS and that worked very well the last few years.


Like Cable didn't have to go through injuries ?

Hue took over a 8-8 team and went 8-8, Cable took over a 0-4 team that finished 4-12 then the next year 5-11 and his last year 8-8 he improved every season.

I never said Palmer was a bad trade matter of a fact it was a great trade Dre Kirkpatrick hasn't even played for the Bengals yet and who knows what the 2nd round pick will do.

Also who said Reggie McKenzie has made any bad moves ?

Reggie McKenzie so far looks like he has made the right moves getting rid of Boss, Routt, Wimbley and the others because the Raiders will have allot of money to spend next year and those guys don't look like anything great for their new teams.

The problem this year was no money to spend and not very good depth.
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
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Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch8878 wrote:
Hue took over a team that was 8-8 under Tom Cable the previous year and went 8-8 and why should have Hue got another shot and not Tom Cable doesn't make any since.

Tom Cable had a 17-27 record but after Lane Kiffin left Cable went 4-8 to finish the season.

I would rather have Gruden back.

We want Chucky back. Razz


The truth is Cable got whacked because HueJax was actually running the team. Cable was a ZBS guy and totally yielded to Hue. (According to Greg Pappas anyways)
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Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

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Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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ch8878


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
Hue took over a team that was 8-8 under Tom Cable the previous year and went 8-8 and why should have Hue got another shot and not Tom Cable doesn't make any since.

Tom Cable had a 17-27 record but after Lane Kiffin left Cable went 4-8 to finish the season.

I would rather have Gruden back.

We want Chucky back. Razz


The truth is Cable got whacked because HueJax was actually running the team. Cable was a ZBS guy and totally yielded to Hue. (According to Greg Pappas anyways)


I personally don't believe that because Cable's teams struggled early in the year and got stronger as the year went on and Hue's 1 year they started strong and got soft at the end of the year.

Neither guy isn't any good or a team like the Bills or something would have scooped them up.
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch8878 wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
Hue took over a team that was 8-8 under Tom Cable the previous year and went 8-8 and why should have Hue got another shot and not Tom Cable doesn't make any since.

Tom Cable had a 17-27 record but after Lane Kiffin left Cable went 4-8 to finish the season.

I would rather have Gruden back.

We want Chucky back. Razz


The truth is Cable got whacked because HueJax was actually running the team. Cable was a ZBS guy and totally yielded to Hue. (According to Greg Pappas anyways)


I personally don't believe that because Cable's teams struggled early in the year and got stronger as the year went on and Hue's 1 year they started strong and got soft at the end of the year.

Neither guy isn't any good or a team like the Bills or something would have scooped them up.


lol What? 2 completely different seasons. Hue Jackson ran the offense in both of his years here. That's not up for debate.
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G


Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 3315
Location: Hollywierd
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

early43 wrote:

was going to read it, then saw who wrote the article and didn't bother. Mike Silver is an complete idiot....


You mean the 'silver surfer'?!? Laughing

big_palooka wrote:

The GM is new to his job. The HC is new to his job. The DC is new to his job. There was bound to be a learning curve, setbacks and adversity.


I think those were all GREAT moves!!! It's the OC with experience and had been here as our OC before that is the problem... Rolling Eyes

I don't mind the WCO but Knapp has got to go. Bring in someone better next season and this season we will see who fits the system. I still have hope for this season, but the running game looks too rough to expect much. Evil or Very Mad
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
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Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch8878 wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
Hue took over a team that was 8-8 under Tom Cable the previous year and went 8-8 and why should have Hue got another shot and not Tom Cable doesn't make any since.

Tom Cable had a 17-27 record but after Lane Kiffin left Cable went 4-8 to finish the season.

I would rather have Gruden back.

We want Chucky back. Razz


The truth is Cable got whacked because HueJax was actually running the team. Cable was a ZBS guy and totally yielded to Hue. (According to Greg Pappas anyways)


I personally don't believe that because Cable's teams struggled early in the year and got stronger as the year went on and Hue's 1 year they started strong and got soft at the end of the year.

Neither guy isn't any good or a team like the Bills or something would have scooped them up.


Actually, the fact that offense under stalled early kinda fits with the story that Hue ran the team in 10. Hue came in, DMC gave him his favorite plays and it took half the season to get it going. If you remember Cable got fired for his many transgressions off the field, Punching other coaches, bringing women on the road, etc. Hue was the one doing the grinding that season and Cable was the de facto HC according to Pappas.

Hue got fired and didn't get another opportunity because of the way he came off in the media.
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Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly I think everyone expects the Harbaugh type of season that the niners had last year do to the hype surrounding Allen's background. We expected that he would just come in with reggie and we'd go 13-3 and dominate because we were 8-8 last year. The thing is we don't have that kind of talent and our team was ran differently and with that way the best we could hope to get was 8-8. Now our team is being ran differently, sure we are going to take losses but I'll take a 4 win season this year get a high draft pick and more lee way in free agency to get good players.

Yes this season is gonna be held together with spiderwebs, gum, and magic. It's the hand we were dealt just believe in the dominance we will have next season.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chali21 wrote:
Honestly I think everyone expects the Harbaugh type of season that the niners had last year do to the hype surrounding Allen's background. We expected that he would just come in with reggie and we'd go 13-3 and dominate because we were 8-8 last year. The thing is we don't have that kind of talent and our team was ran differently and with that way the best we could hope to get was 8-8. Now our team is being ran differently, sure we are going to take losses but I'll take a 4 win season this year get a high draft pick and more lee way in free agency to get good players.

Yes this season is gonna be held together with spiderwebs, gum, and magic. It's the hand we were dealt just believe in the dominance we will have next season.


This is EXACTLY what some thought. The Raiders were .500 the last 2 years and people expected a scheme change and BOOM, playoff team.

The 9ers had Bowman, Willis, Smith on defense. All 3 are difference making types. There was something there to begin with. The Raiders have nothing like that.
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch8878 wrote:
SPaceGhost wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
Hue took over a team that was 8-8 under Tom Cable the previous year and went 8-8 and why should have Hue got another shot and not Tom Cable doesn't make any since.

Tom Cable had a 17-27 record but after Lane Kiffin left Cable went 4-8 to finish the season.

I would rather have Gruden back.

We want Chucky back. Razz


Cable was the furthest thing from a Head Coach the RAIDERS have ever had. Hue Jackson got 8 wins with a team that got crushed by injuries, offense and defense. That 'train wreck' of a deal that got us Palmer wasn't a 'train wreck', Palmer is lookin' good right now... no INT's, and still making headway with UDFA's like Streater or recent pickups like Hagan, and dealing with Knapp's ZBS which is giving him no help from the run game.

I understand McKenzie coming in and cleaning house, but the point of a GM is to keep a HC from making bad decisions like bringing in an OC who wants to run a ZBS when he has all the makings of a PBS and that worked very well the last few years.


Like Cable didn't have to go through injuries ?

Hue took over a 8-8 team and went 8-8, Cable took over a 0-4 team that finished 4-12 then the next year 5-11 and his last year 8-8 he improved every season.

I never said Palmer was a bad trade matter of a fact it was a great trade Dre Kirkpatrick hasn't even played for the Bengals yet and who knows what the 2nd round pick will do.

Also who said Reggie McKenzie has made any bad moves ?

Reggie McKenzie so far looks like he has made the right moves getting rid of Boss, Routt, Wimbley and the others because the Raiders will have allot of money to spend next year and those guys don't look like anything great for their new teams.

The problem this year was no money to spend and not very good depth.


How about Knapp for OC
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
Honestly I think everyone expects the Harbaugh type of season that the niners had last year do to the hype surrounding Allen's background. We expected that he would just come in with reggie and we'd go 13-3 and dominate because we were 8-8 last year. The thing is we don't have that kind of talent and our team was ran differently and with that way the best we could hope to get was 8-8. Now our team is being ran differently, sure we are going to take losses but I'll take a 4 win season this year get a high draft pick and more lee way in free agency to get good players.

Yes this season is gonna be held together with spiderwebs, gum, and magic. It's the hand we were dealt just believe in the dominance we will have next season.


This is EXACTLY what some thought. The Raiders were .500 the last 2 years and people expected a scheme change and BOOM, playoff team.

The 9ers had Bowman, Willis, Smith on defense. All 3 are difference making types. There was something there to begin with. The Raiders have nothing like that.


From what I read, people thought the idea of Palmer training an entire off-season with the team, as well as playing with McFadden, would make the offensive side of the ball a strength like it had been for the past 2 seasons. Which is understandable, until you take into account how poorly coached they are now.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
Honestly I think everyone expects the Harbaugh type of season that the niners had last year do to the hype surrounding Allen's background. We expected that he would just come in with reggie and we'd go 13-3 and dominate because we were 8-8 last year. The thing is we don't have that kind of talent and our team was ran differently and with that way the best we could hope to get was 8-8. Now our team is being ran differently, sure we are going to take losses but I'll take a 4 win season this year get a high draft pick and more lee way in free agency to get good players.

Yes this season is gonna be held together with spiderwebs, gum, and magic. It's the hand we were dealt just believe in the dominance we will have next season.


This is EXACTLY what some thought. The Raiders were .500 the last 2 years and people expected a scheme change and BOOM, playoff team.

The 9ers had Bowman, Willis, Smith on defense. All 3 are difference making types. There was something there to begin with. The Raiders have nothing like that.


From what I read, people thought the idea of Palmer training an entire off-season with the team, as well as playing with McFadden, would make the offensive side of the ball a strength like it had been for the past 2 seasons. Which is understandable, until you take into account how poorly coached they are now.


Again. 2 weeks. Your blind to say they are poorly coached until they actually settle in. 2 different centers. 2 rts. Moore just off injury. Your knee jerk reaction is misguided. Even Hue Jackson struggled early and had some bad games. Or are we just ignoring that?
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Darkness


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Darkness wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
Honestly I think everyone expects the Harbaugh type of season that the niners had last year do to the hype surrounding Allen's background. We expected that he would just come in with reggie and we'd go 13-3 and dominate because we were 8-8 last year. The thing is we don't have that kind of talent and our team was ran differently and with that way the best we could hope to get was 8-8. Now our team is being ran differently, sure we are going to take losses but I'll take a 4 win season this year get a high draft pick and more lee way in free agency to get good players.

Yes this season is gonna be held together with spiderwebs, gum, and magic. It's the hand we were dealt just believe in the dominance we will have next season.


This is EXACTLY what some thought. The Raiders were .500 the last 2 years and people expected a scheme change and BOOM, playoff team.

The 9ers had Bowman, Willis, Smith on defense. All 3 are difference making types. There was something there to begin with. The Raiders have nothing like that.


From what I read, people thought the idea of Palmer training an entire off-season with the team, as well as playing with McFadden, would make the offensive side of the ball a strength like it had been for the past 2 seasons. Which is understandable, until you take into account how poorly coached they are now.


Again. 2 weeks. Your blind to say they are poorly coached until they actually settle in. 2 different centers. 2 rts. Moore just off injury. Your knee jerk reaction is misguided. Even Hue Jackson struggled early and had some bad games. Or are we just ignoring that?


I'm confused. I thought your post stated that it was misguided for some fans to have expected playoffs. The Raiders had a terrible defense last season. With what I mentioned about the offense, why would an improvement on an 8-8 record be so hard to fathom if not for a terrible OC?
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Chali21


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Darkness wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
Honestly I think everyone expects the Harbaugh type of season that the niners had last year do to the hype surrounding Allen's background. We expected that he would just come in with reggie and we'd go 13-3 and dominate because we were 8-8 last year. The thing is we don't have that kind of talent and our team was ran differently and with that way the best we could hope to get was 8-8. Now our team is being ran differently, sure we are going to take losses but I'll take a 4 win season this year get a high draft pick and more lee way in free agency to get good players.

Yes this season is gonna be held together with spiderwebs, gum, and magic. It's the hand we were dealt just believe in the dominance we will have next season.


This is EXACTLY what some thought. The Raiders were .500 the last 2 years and people expected a scheme change and BOOM, playoff team.

The 9ers had Bowman, Willis, Smith on defense. All 3 are difference making types. There was something there to begin with. The Raiders have nothing like that.


From what I read, people thought the idea of Palmer training an entire off-season with the team, as well as playing with McFadden, would make the offensive side of the ball a strength like it had been for the past 2 seasons. Which is understandable, until you take into account how poorly coached they are now.


Again. 2 weeks. Your blind to say they are poorly coached until they actually settle in. 2 different centers. 2 rts. Moore just off injury. Your knee jerk reaction is misguided. Even Hue Jackson struggled early and had some bad games. Or are we just ignoring that?


I'm confused. I thought your post stated that it was misguided for some fans to have expected playoffs. The Raiders had a terrible defense last season. With what I mentioned about the offense, why would an improvement on an 8-8 record be so hard to fathom if not for a terrible OC?


Part of our problem was scheme the other part was players. When you got over paid cb's getting penalties. Our under acheiving defense has a lack of talent.
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