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Tatupu_64
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 17055
Location: Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.
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 Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:46 am Post subject: |
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| strat1080 wrote: | | SwiftTexan wrote: | | outside_Insider wrote: | please watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDnSdkefYAA SwiftTexan.
Switch to 720 HD quality and enlarge screen
Tate touches the ball first, and "controls it with on arm leveraged against Jenning's arm at the same time. I actually don't believe this is the definition as you do, but anyways this video shows Tate contacts the ball first with his left hand.
Many other videos show him with simultaneous possession with 2 feet prior to Jennings, but you seem to disagree on the definition of control, so I thought I'd show you that control (as you define it) was simultaneous as well |
All I see if Jennings catching the ball and Tate getting 2 or 3 fingers on it. The feet don't matter. Tate could have no feet and its' still the same call. And it's not my definition - it's the NFL's. The rule is specific to a simultaneous catch in the endzone. I've posted the quote from the rulebook in a previous post. Go find it. Read it. Stop telling me about the feet.
I've watched your youtube clip. The music was annoying and even with the 720 - it was still pretty blurry. I prefer mine which has a clearer picture and breaks it down in a more concise manner.
Tate = no catch.
Seahawks = Win
It doesn't add up but that's the story. Move on. Game 4. Put your helmets on and put this ugliness behind us. |
The bottom line is that there is ABSOLUTELY NO footage of Tate EVER POSSESSING the ball PERIOD!!!
When you break down that play Jenning clearly has possession of the ball from different angles and different moments throughout the play. There is not any video footage or photos of Tate ACTUALLY POSSESSING THE BALL!!!
This is comical. It was such a poorly blown call that here we are three days after the game and the regular officials are ALREADY BACK!!!
You guys are going to try to say it wasn't a blown call. RIDICULOUS!!!.
I posted a few pages back that 87% of the country and the majority of people in EVERY STATE, including WASHINGTON think it was a blown call. Heck even Seahawks player themselves don't think they won the game.
Quit being homers guys. The NFL itself said Tate should have been called for Offensive PI which should have ended the game. The NFL statement itself basically says that the Seahawks didn't deserve to win the game. The only reason "Golden Taint" was even in position to make the catch is because he shoves somebody out of the way.
Yes, on Hail Mary plays they let a lot of calls go but you can't just shove somebody to the ground. That was one of the worst pushoffs ever seen in the NFL. Jon Gruden said it was one of the worst cases of Offensive Pass Interference he's ever seen. Golden Tate cheated on the play. The play should have been whistled dead. The guy who was rewarded the TD cheated to be in position to catch the ball that he didn't really catch. |
So. One question than.
Did Green Bay deserve to win?
Because I sure as hell don't see why it matters that Seattle was "given" a TD at the end of the game by the refs but it doesn't matter that Green Bay was given their last 9 points of the game by the refs.
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sirensong
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 678
Location: Vancouver BC
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:48 am Post subject: |
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Refs give GB 9pts. Refs Give Sea 7pts. Remove pts given by refs, whats the score?
Sea win.
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THEFOOTBALLXPRT
Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 10408
Location: Bothell, WA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:20 am Post subject: |
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This was written by a friend of mine. He and I had several discussions via Facebook that I think helped lead him to this analysis. It's well written and in my mind PROVES that this is a TD. I didn't say that until I read it. I was of the opinion that it was just a play with a tomboy gray area and no matter what call was made on the field it could not have been overturned.
Tate caught the ball. Period.
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THEFOOTBALLXPRT
Joined: 01 Jan 2007
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Location: Bothell, WA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:30 am Post subject: |
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Apparently people aren't looking very closely at the gif in the article that shows Tates left hand in full possession of the ball before Jennings touched it...
I can't fathom how someone can read that article and not admit, at worst, it was a call that could have gone either way and, as a result, will always go to the offense...
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SwiftTexan
Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Posts: 2424
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| THEFOOTBALLXPRT wrote: | Apparently people aren't looking very closely at the gif in the article that shows Tates left hand in full possession of the ball before Jennings touched it...
I can't fathom how someone can read that article and not admit, at worst, it was a call that could have gone either way and, as a result, will always go to the offense... |
Yes, your friends blurry gif from sb nation and flawed argument are very convincing. If only the rest of the world were privy to his genius.
C'mon man! It was an impossible call to make on the field but it should have been reversed - no doubt about it. I don't blame the NFL for not reversing the decision after the fact because that would have made it worse. I'm glad we were the catalyst to the real refs coming back - the circus was getting old. |
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outside_Insider
Joined: 29 Jan 2012
Posts: 1196
Location: Calgary, AB
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| SwiftTexan wrote: | | THEFOOTBALLXPRT wrote: | Apparently people aren't looking very closely at the gif in the article that shows Tates left hand in full possession of the ball before Jennings touched it...
I can't fathom how someone can read that article and not admit, at worst, it was a call that could have gone either way and, as a result, will always go to the offense... |
Yes, your friends blurry gif from sb nation and flawed argument are very convincing. If only the rest of the world were privy to his genius.
it should have been reversed - no doubt about it |
Wow, black and white much? I don't think you can actually open your mind up to see the other side that many many national media pundits (whom aren't Seahawks fans) have begun to do (prisco, Allen, Sando, Kacsmar..ect)
The title of Sando's article on ESPN is called, "Closed mind, Tired of MNF?" Please don't read.
So considering you are extremely closed minded about the situation perhaps you shouldn't read. However, if there is a chance you want to see the truth rather than making your dogmatic belief become true, I suggest you read Kacsmar's article.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/76365/closed-mind-tired-of-mnf-talk-skip-this
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/shame-the-angry-mob-golden-tates-touchdown-was-legit/17706/
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SwiftTexan
Joined: 15 Feb 2011
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| outside_Insider wrote: | | SwiftTexan wrote: | | THEFOOTBALLXPRT wrote: | Apparently people aren't looking very closely at the gif in the article that shows Tates left hand in full possession of the ball before Jennings touched it...
I can't fathom how someone can read that article and not admit, at worst, it was a call that could have gone either way and, as a result, will always go to the offense... |
Yes, your friends blurry gif from sb nation and flawed argument are very convincing. If only the rest of the world were privy to his genius.
it should have been reversed - no doubt about it |
Wow, black and white much? I don't think you can actually open your mind up to see the other side that many many national media pundits (whom aren't Seahawks fans) have begun to do (prisco, Allen, Sando, Kacsmar..ect)
The title of Sando's article on ESPN is called, "Closed mind, Tired of MNF?" Please don't read.
So considering you are extremely closed minded about the situation perhaps you shouldn't read. However, if there is a chance you want to see the truth rather than making your dogmatic belief become true, I suggest you read Kacsmar's article.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/76365/closed-mind-tired-of-mnf-talk-skip-this
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/shame-the-angry-mob-golden-tates-touchdown-was-legit/17706/ |
I actually came in to post the CHFF article.
Two things keep me from changing my mind. I'm not closed minded - I've just informed myself as much as possible and made a decision based on what I've seen and read. Everything that people have posted - I've already read and considered.
1) The rule stats that if PlayerA goes up for an interception and gains control of the ball. Then PlayerB gets his hands on the ball and gains simultaneous control - PlayerA is awarded the interception. It specifically says that when the feet touch the ground is irrelevant in this case. Neither the defensive player nor the offensive player has to have their feet on the ground in order to be considered having possession. They must complete the catch as with any other catch but the feet do not dictate when control is granted.
2) I see Jennings getting his hands on the ball and then a split second after I see Tate get the tips of two or three fingers on the ball. Then Tate gets his hand in between Jennings' chest and the ball and they go to the ground.
The lack of simultaneous control and the fact that I don't believe you can have control of a ball with just a few fingertips sways my decision in favour of the Packers.
I'm not closed minded - just informed. I've considered all sides and made a decision. Nothing that anybody has posted is anything new or anything that has changed my mind. I've read the CHFF and all the other articles and nothing (yet) has been able to refute the two points above.
I'm sorry if I come off closed-minded. If anything - I'm frustrated by some people raising the same points that don't matter (feet) and not knowing the true intricacies of the rules.
Sorry if I come off closed-minded - not my intention. Thanks for posting the CHFF article though - it was well put together. |
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SaveourSonics
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 45445
Location: Sleepless in Seattle
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| SwiftTexan wrote: | | 1) The rule stats that if PlayerA goes up for an interception and gains control of the ball. Then PlayerB gets his hands on the ball and gains simultaneous control - PlayerA is awarded the interception. It specifically says that when the feet touch the ground is irrelevant in this case. Neither the defensive player nor the offensive player has to have their feet on the ground in order to be considered having possession. They must complete the catch as with any other catch but the feet do not dictate when control is granted. |
That'd be all fine and good, but Tate's left hand is actually the first thing to contact the football, so "PlayerA" in your example did not gain control before "PlayerB". And to stop you from wasting a post (knowing what your next thought will be), Tate gains control immediately upon touching the ball. How do we know this? The ball is never lost from his grip throughout the process of the catch nor does it even bobble.
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Sacks98
Joined: 21 Dec 2009
Posts: 3507
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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If you rough the Passer do you always get fined?
Wagner wasn't fined for hitting Rodgers in the knee area so i was just wondering because if they do then that means Wagner's roughing the passer wasn't a very good call either.
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TheOsprey
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 6527
Location: In a van, down by the river.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| SaveourSonics wrote: | | SwiftTexan wrote: | | 1) The rule stats that if PlayerA goes up for an interception and gains control of the ball. Then PlayerB gets his hands on the ball and gains simultaneous control - PlayerA is awarded the interception. It specifically says that when the feet touch the ground is irrelevant in this case. Neither the defensive player nor the offensive player has to have their feet on the ground in order to be considered having possession. They must complete the catch as with any other catch but the feet do not dictate when control is granted. |
That'd be all fine and good, but Tate's left hand is actually the first thing to contact the football, so "PlayerA" in your example did not gain control before "PlayerB". And to stop you from wasting a post (knowing what your next thought will be), Tate gains control immediately upon touching the ball. How do we know this? The ball is never lost from his grip throughout the process of the catch nor does it even bobble. |
Are you watching an entirely different play? That is exactly the opposite of what I see, everytime I look at the film and I actually wanted Tate to catch the ball.  |
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SaveourSonics
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 45445
Location: Sleepless in Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:13 am Post subject: |
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Don't know what you're looking at.
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outside_Insider
Joined: 29 Jan 2012
Posts: 1196
Location: Calgary, AB
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:24 am Post subject: |
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If Osprey and Texan wouldn't mind, could you both watch this closely (increase the quality)? Watch this a few times and if you still think Jennings touched it first then we'll just have to agree to disagree:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDnSdkefYAA
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SaveourSonics
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 45445
Location: Sleepless in Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:04 am Post subject: |
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So I'm just now watching the game for the first time.
- Awesome how much Gruden pumped the Legion of Boom. ESPN killed that segment.
- It is unbelievably loud. You can barely hear pregame reports.
Just now hit the 1st quarter.
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Tooki
Joined: 28 Apr 2009
Posts: 9563
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:10 am Post subject: |
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Gruden was loving it. (I don't blame him)
And it was LOUD. Aaron Rodgers struggled to get a lot of those plays off. He was coming up to the line with 5-10 seconds to spare at times.
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SaveourSonics
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 45445
Location: Sleepless in Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:12 am Post subject: |
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- Bruce Irvin is a man. Awesome sack.
- First drives on offense are actually called fairly well. Bevell just goes to crap as the game goes on.
- Surprised by McCoys improvement.
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