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What position upgrade would yield the most improvement?
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What position and player
Cornerback
55%
 55%  [ 25 ]
OLine
8%
 8%  [ 4 ]
Dline
15%
 15%  [ 7 ]
Quarterback
6%
 6%  [ 3 ]
Secondary
13%
 13%  [ 6 ]
Running back
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 45

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CrashMan510


Joined: 14 Aug 2012
Posts: 4476
Location: Bay Area
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

robert woods is overrated, want no part of him in the 1st. Marqise Lee on the other hand is going to be a monster in the NFL, too bad he's not eligible
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 5479
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CrashMan510 wrote:
robert woods is overrated, want no part of him in the 1st. Marqise Lee on the other hand is going to be a monster in the NFL, too bad he's not eligible


Lee is going to be a headcase. Future Diva fo sho
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Nodisrespect


Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 3575
Location: in the present
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
Michigan State University DE William Gholston
Height: 6’7” l Weight: 278lbs l 40: 4.76


Positives:
• Freakish Athlete
Unbelievable size/speed Ratio
• High Explosion Formula #
• Great Length
Negatives:
Discipline
• Fundamentals
Reminiscent of: NYG DE Jason Pierre-Paul
2013 Outlook: Situational Pass Rusher

Analysis: Gholston is a tremendous athlete, a specimen, who plays with passion albeit out of control with multiple Suh-esque incidents on his young resume. Gholston’s athleticism is immediately apparent, however he has a long way to go in terms of developing his fundamentals as he can be stymied occassionally. Developing multiple pass rushing moves, using his hands and seriously reducing his pad level would go a long way in improving his consistency. Gholston MUST learn to control himself when he is frustrated as this is when he commits the types of penalties that hurt his team. Currently ranked as a late 1st – early 2nd round prospect, IMO, Gholston’s stock will experience a meteoric rise once his rare athleticism is on display at the combine.

Why should Gholston be the pick?: The consensus is that the Raiders two most glaring weaknesses are CB & RT. I would like to make a case that while DE might not appear to be the Raiders most pressing need, with Houston & Shaughnessy at the position, the Raiders are SERIOUSLY lacking speed off the edge. The Raiders current DEs are quite adept at setting the end and forcing runs inside (to no avail I might add but they do DO their job), however similar to when the Texans selected Mario Williams, if you ever wish to win a division with Peyton Manning in it then you must have a fierce productive pass rush. Consider the NYG who never pass on an opportunity to add an edge rusher regardless of need. A front of Gholston, Seymour, TK & Shaughnessy would make ANY secondary instant better.

While CB is also a need, even an elite CB looks pedestrian absent a pass rush, thereby reducing the impact of a young elite talent. RT is also a need, but it is far easy to find a RT than it is to find an edge rusher. There are other elite pass rushing LBers available, however the current interior tandem has failed to consistently maintain gap control. In short, the Raiders rarely blitz with their OLBs because they are usually in coverage. Considering that the FO has committed to the interior DL for the short-term it would make no sense to add a pass rushing OLB and then play him in coverage the majority of the time. In a weak 43 DE class, Gholston is the best of the lot.


I want to like this guy, but his name scares the crap out of me. But he is much bigger than his cousin, what is his agility like, because IMO his agility and his enormous contract killed vernon's career.
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 5479
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL. The Gholston name scares me as well, Vernon is his cousin. His number is also an ominous sign. Good thing I'm not superstitious. Well . . .
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true2form


Joined: 01 Jan 2010
Posts: 753
Location: Ohio
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
The fact that anyone voted for anything other than OL or CBs blows my mind. They were good in the old scheme and awful in this one. Be it them, or the scheme, or the coaching, or all of it. They are making DMC look like a chump, rendering our best offensive player virtually useless so far. Seriously, someone voted for QB? And DL? I will not be returning to this thread...


I can't believe it is not 100% CB. We have three veteran CBs, all in their 30s, all on one year deals, two of which were injured last year and are now injured this year. The other CBs on our team are ST players and/or waiver pick ups from other teams cuts.

The only way we don't pick a CB in the 1st round is if we sign or trade for TWO CBs before the draft. QB, WR, DL, etc. really? Really?
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
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Location: Dublin
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do people really think we'd have won on Sunday with a great cornerback? We'd have simply been punting the ball back to the dolphins 5 plays later anyway.
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reddevil


Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Posts: 547
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

true2form wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
The fact that anyone voted for anything other than OL or CBs blows my mind. They were good in the old scheme and awful in this one. Be it them, or the scheme, or the coaching, or all of it. They are making DMC look like a chump, rendering our best offensive player virtually useless so far. Seriously, someone voted for QB? And DL? I will not be returning to this thread...


I can't believe it is not 100% CB. We have three veteran CBs, all in their 30s, all on one year deals, two of which were injured last year and are now injured this year. The other CBs on our team are ST players and/or waiver pick ups from other teams cuts.

The only way we don't pick a CB in the 1st round is if we sign or trade for TWO CBs before the draft. QB, WR, DL, etc. really? Really?


I can see where both of you are coming from. There is a desperate need for quality at both CB and OL. I can however see the reasoning behind picking up an alternative position. We are a team in deep transition. It is gonna take some years to get quality throughout the roster. If we are picking fairly high and a blue-chip player is there for the taking, you gotta pull the trigger. For me to truly compete you have to have elite talent at QB and Outside pass-rusher. If there is a pass rusher that would improve that aspect of our team for the future it would be hard to pass up. There are quite a few this year. If that player isn't there then, absolutely, get quality to fill a need or trade back and see if you can get a couple of players to fill them holes.

I certainly wouldn't be disappointed if we managed to land Jarvis Jones - even if we didn't have an immediate solution to our CB woes.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 11563
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
Do people really think we'd have won on Sunday with a great cornerback? We'd have simply been punting the ball back to the dolphins 5 plays later anyway.


Is someone buying into my CB theory? LOL

But you're absolutely right. CB first = wasted pick.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Team needs an edge rusher. Someone to put pressure on the QB with some consistency.
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reddevil


Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Posts: 547
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Raidin wrote:
Do people really think we'd have won on Sunday with a great cornerback? We'd have simply been punting the ball back to the dolphins 5 plays later anyway.


Is someone buying into my CB theory? LOL

But you're absolutely right. CB first = wasted pick.


I am nearly with you. CB ain't nothing without pass rush. But even a decent corner is hard to find.

I would offer an alternative - CB High first = wasted pick.
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 14111
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
Do people really think we'd have won on Sunday with a great cornerback? We'd have simply been punting the ball back to the dolphins 5 plays later anyway.


Not when the Dolphins ran for 250 yards.
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 8494
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barrett Jones - OC/OG/OT
And he is good at all 3 positions. Solidifies another spot on the OL and frees up a roster spot because of versatility. Between him and Wiz we don't need to keep a guy like Parsons(although he has played ok).

Or we may go DT or S to replace the salary of either Seymour or Huff.
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dmac505


Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 733
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Raidin wrote:
Do people really think we'd have won on Sunday with a great cornerback? We'd have simply been punting the ball back to the dolphins 5 plays later anyway.


Is someone buying into my CB theory? LOL

But you're absolutely right. CB first = wasted pick.



with a great front, you still need solid CBs, which we have none of.

Our cbs now are pathetic, it doesnt matter what front 7 you have in front because a QB is going to pick apart Pat Lee and Hanson.

CB is our biggest need, but that doesnt mean we should draft them in the first round.

Its to bad spencer was looking very good for us.

The biggest move for us would be to get a speed DE, we are to slow to get to the QB.

we also need to find 2 ZBS lineman...

then id look for two CBs. draft wise
I think FA we will be able to find solid CBs easier then great OL or Des
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

true2form wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
The fact that anyone voted for anything other than OL or CBs blows my mind. They were good in the old scheme and awful in this one. Be it them, or the scheme, or the coaching, or all of it. They are making DMC look like a chump, rendering our best offensive player virtually useless so far. Seriously, someone voted for QB? And DL? I will not be returning to this thread...


I can't believe it is not 100% CB. We have three veteran CBs, all in their 30s, all on one year deals, two of which were injured last year and are now injured this year. The other CBs on our team are ST players and/or waiver pick ups from other teams cuts.

The only way we don't pick a CB in the 1st round is if we sign or trade for TWO CBs before the draft. QB, WR, DL, etc. really? Really?


I can assure you with almost near certainty that there will be multiple value based veteran corners on the market next similar to this season. In fact I can think of 2 decent ones who had their seasons wiped away by fluke injuries that already know Tarver's system quite well. Think about it.

Fundamental football is build inside out. DL > CB.
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true2form


Joined: 01 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
Do people really think we'd have won on Sunday with a great cornerback? We'd have simply been punting the ball back to the dolphins 5 plays later anyway.


Well honestly, yes.

There may have never been the Reggie Bush show in the second half with a dead tired defense if we had a halfway decent corner stopping Brian Hartline. He had 2 catches for 36 yards on the opening TD for Miami. 2 for 18 on their 2nd TD. 1 for 13 on the 3rd TD. 2 for 24 on 4th.

Is CB the answer to everything? Of course not, but IMO it is our biggest need now and I don't see how it won't be next year as well. I'm not asking for that one final corner to make it all work either. We need at least 3 next year unless we resign one of the vets.

We could use OL, DL, and many other spots to be honest, but all other position groups are much better off. BPA vs. Need I guess.
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