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A Stat that's "Hard-to-fathom"
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KingTitan


Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 10430
Location: Nashville,TN
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just don't understand why people want to give CJ a pass on the poor run game.

It's a shared blame. If not 50-50, it's 60-40 maybe......
CJ mentally has an issue. I think he physically has it, but mentally he isn't there.
Blame the line all you want for his mental issue. Fact remains, mentally he seems to have almost quit at times.
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Obie09


Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 318
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingTitan wrote:
I just don't understand why people want to give CJ a pass on the poor run game.

It's a shared blame. If not 50-50, it's 60-40 maybe......
CJ mentally has an issue. I think he physically has it, but mentally he isn't there.
Blame the line all you want for his mental issue. Fact remains, mentally he seems to have almost quit at times.


He's not getting a pass but the fact that our run blocking is VERY quite possibly the worst in NFL history and it's at the very least the worst since 95, it's hard to judge how any other good RB would fare.

No doubt he hasn't done everything he's needed to and he's looked hesitent and I have no doubt he isn't the same player a few years ago but I also have no doubt if he was on the Texans and we had Arian Foster Foster, he would be averaging like 2-3 YPC right now and CJ would be averaging 5 over there. It's more on coaching and scheme. We don't have the right type of player for the type of running game we're "trying" to run, it's literally the worst combination possible.


Last edited by Obie09 on Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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RuskieTitan


Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 37911
Location: Front lines of Titania
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

King, I agree with you.

But how many games would you last before you got sick and tired of others sucking so hard you look bad? There's not really much he can do at this point. I'd be shocked if any back had 50 yards on our team this year.
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KingTitan


Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 10430
Location: Nashville,TN
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obie09 wrote:
KingTitan wrote:
I just don't understand why people want to give CJ a pass on the poor run game.

It's a shared blame. If not 50-50, it's 60-40 maybe......
CJ mentally has an issue. I think he physically has it, but mentally he isn't there.
Blame the line all you want for his mental issue. Fact remains, mentally he seems to have almost quit at times.


He's not getting a pass but the fact that our run blocking is VERY quite possibly the worst in NFL history and it's at the very least the worst since 95, it's hard to judge how any other good RB would fare.

No doubt he hasn't done everything he's needed to and he's looked hesitent and I have no doubt he isn't the same player a few years ago but I also have no doubt if he was on the Texans and we had Arian Foster Foster, he would be averaging like 2-3 YPC right now and CJ would be averaging 5 over there. It's more on coaching and scheme. We don't have the right type of player for the type of running game we're "trying" to run, it's literally the worst combination possible.


Well, I'm not questioning anything about the line.
Only thing I was sayin is that for some to TOTALLY and FULLY let him off the hook by placing all the blame on the line isn't right..
I'm pretty sure also that behind a different line and scheme he would be producing better.
But sadly, he is here and he isn't producing.
Repalce the lineman would be ideal but that isn't happening....Replace the RB would be logical, but that's not happening either....

We screwed....lol
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KingTitan


Joined: 10 Mar 2006
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Location: Nashville,TN
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RuskieTitan wrote:
King, I agree with you.

But how many games would you last before you got sick and tired of others sucking so hard you look bad? There's not really much he can do at this point. I'd be shocked if any back had 50 yards on our team this year.


True...our line isn't doing their job.

Maybe a bruiser could maybe squeak out some 3.5 ypc who knows....Running game isn't going to be too good this year.....
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titanrick


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That stat is near unbelievable.

As others have said, it's still both parties to blame. CJ looks almost resigned to losing yards when he takes the ball which is just asking to be tackled for a loss. But he's become that way because nearly every play has someone getting to him in the backfield. Contrast that to 2010 when he would take a handoff and glide for a bit choosing between multiple gaps before bursting through one of them into the second level.
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RuskieTitan


Joined: 29 Apr 2007
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Location: Front lines of Titania
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

titanrick wrote:
That stat is near unbelievable.

As others have said, it's still both parties to blame. CJ looks almost resigned to losing yards when he takes the ball which is just asking to be tackled for a loss. But he's become that way because nearly every play has someone getting to him in the backfield. Contrast that to 2010 when he would take a handoff and glide for a bit choosing between multiple gaps before bursting through one of them into the second level.


Yup. That's the stance I'm taking as well. CJ2K isn't near as good as he once was, but it's like a Jersey girl in her 20s - she's damaged goods now. For him, he's had so many games (and now over a season) of playing with [inappropriate/removed]-poor linemen that he doesn't expect anything else.

Watch him when he gets the ball on catches and has some space to work. He's getting the yards he needs to.

I can only hope we correct the line before we're forced to move on from CJ... and he lights it up with another season.
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s_camp


Joined: 10 Dec 2010
Posts: 2805
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titans_31 wrote:
-Munch- wrote:
The offensive line argument is over, done, gone, don't wanna hear it anymore. Yeah they're bad but we've got a RB who's a lottttt lot lottt worse.

CJ is an absolutely terrible running back. The fault is all his own. Anyone who tries to defend CJ anymore is either a fool or an idiot. I want this guy off the team so bad.


If the problem is cj then why are none of are other running backs producing? Its the o-line first thats were the game starts and they are doing nothing to help out are running back. If u watch the game u will notice that nobody gets any push. I hope this problem get sorted out soon because if not this is going to be a long year. Right now we look like a 3-5 win ball club


The other RBs do produce better than CJ. Only once last year did CJ and a backup get even shots in a game, and Ringer ran circles around CJ.

The ZBS doesn't call for much push from the OL. A much bigger issue is how ineffective they are on the second level.
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s_camp


Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obie09 wrote:
KingTitan wrote:
I just don't understand why people want to give CJ a pass on the poor run game.

It's a shared blame. If not 50-50, it's 60-40 maybe......
CJ mentally has an issue. I think he physically has it, but mentally he isn't there.
Blame the line all you want for his mental issue. Fact remains, mentally he seems to have almost quit at times.


He's not getting a pass but the fact that our run blocking is VERY quite possibly the worst in NFL history and it's at the very least the worst since 95, it's hard to judge how any other good RB would fare.

No doubt he hasn't done everything he's needed to and he's looked hesitent and I have no doubt he isn't the same player a few years ago but I also have no doubt if he was on the Texans and we had Arian Foster Foster, he would be averaging like 2-3 YPC right now and CJ would be averaging 5 over there. It's more on coaching and scheme. We don't have the right type of player for the type of running game we're "trying" to run, it's literally the worst combination possible.


That would be 2 to 3 times better than what CJ is doing right now, which is the entire point about CJ. Really though they would average quite a bit more than that because they'd be able to take advantage of the rare good blocking and bust off 15 or 20 yards, maybe more depending on what the secondary does. Yeah there are other problems, but he's just phoning it in at this point.

Also, no way is CJ gaining 5 YPC behind any offensive line if he keeps running the way he's running now. How on earth could he? He gets near the LoS then waits for the defenders. I don't see how better blocking helps that issue.
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justing101


Joined: 09 Mar 2010
Posts: 1509
Location: Middle Tennessee
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

s_camp wrote:
Obie09 wrote:
KingTitan wrote:
I just don't understand why people want to give CJ a pass on the poor run game.

It's a shared blame. If not 50-50, it's 60-40 maybe......
CJ mentally has an issue. I think he physically has it, but mentally he isn't there.
Blame the line all you want for his mental issue. Fact remains, mentally he seems to have almost quit at times.


He's not getting a pass but the fact that our run blocking is VERY quite possibly the worst in NFL history and it's at the very least the worst since 95, it's hard to judge how any other good RB would fare.

No doubt he hasn't done everything he's needed to and he's looked hesitent and I have no doubt he isn't the same player a few years ago but I also have no doubt if he was on the Texans and we had Arian Foster Foster, he would be averaging like 2-3 YPC right now and CJ would be averaging 5 over there. It's more on coaching and scheme. We don't have the right type of player for the type of running game we're "trying" to run, it's literally the worst combination possible.


That would be 2 to 3 times better than what CJ is doing right now, which is the entire point about CJ. Really though they would average quite a bit more than that because they'd be able to take advantage of the rare good blocking and bust off 15 or 20 yards, maybe more depending on what the secondary does. Yeah there are other problems, but he's just phoning it in at this point.

Also, no way is CJ gaining 5 YPC behind any offensive line if he keeps running the way he's running now. How on earth could he? He gets near the LoS then waits for the defenders. I don't see how better blocking helps that issue.


Its cuz he has now become used to defenders in the backfield when he gets the ball and its messing him up mentally. CJ needs a hole, one cut, and just go. Our line cant do that and now its messing with his small brain.
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deeluxx3


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ringer averaged 3.1 YAC last year. Not exactly lighting it up.

And if a reason for that would be the idea that he didn't get enough carries to get into the groove of the game...well neither is CJ right now (not that I think getting 20 carries would make a difference).


IMO, CJ is a big problem. I won't deny that. He is playing lazily and not running with any heart.

But the offensive line is legitimately 50 times worse right now. No push, no fight, no anything. They are being less physical than CJ, and that's unacceptable.
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s_camp


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deeluxx3 wrote:
Ringer averaged 3.1 YAC last year. Not exactly lighting it up.

And if a reason for that would be the idea that he didn't get enough carries to get into the groove of the game...well neither is CJ right now (not that I think getting 20 carries would make a difference).


IMO, CJ is a big problem. I won't deny that. He is playing lazily and not running with any heart.

But the offensive line is legitimately 50 times worse right now. No push, no fight, no anything. They are being less physical than CJ, and that's unacceptable.


Ringer kicked CJ's [inappropriate/removed] last year when they had equal chances in a game.

The OL certainly is not 50 times worse than CJ. How can a group of guys who manage to do their job well every once in a while be worse than a guy who hasn't done his job in a year?
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deeluxx3


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

s_camp wrote:
deeluxx3 wrote:
Ringer averaged 3.1 YAC last year. Not exactly lighting it up.

And if a reason for that would be the idea that he didn't get enough carries to get into the groove of the game...well neither is CJ right now (not that I think getting 20 carries would make a difference).


IMO, CJ is a big problem. I won't deny that. He is playing lazily and not running with any heart.

But the offensive line is legitimately 50 times worse right now. No push, no fight, no anything. They are being less physical than CJ, and that's unacceptable.


Ringer kicked CJ's [inappropriate/removed] last year when they had equal chances in a game.

The OL certainly is not 50 times worse than CJ. How can a group of guys who manage to do their job well every once in a while be worse than a guy who hasn't done his job in a year?


Ringer most certainly did not kick CJ's butt last year. Ringer had one decent game against Indy and one nice run against Houston. Other than that, he was no different than Chris. Running into a pile and having nowhere to go.


When is the last time that the O-Line has done their job in run blocking? Because even in the games last season where Chris had big games, it was more of him making something out of nothing and Palmer running plays to the outside than the o-line opening up massive holes for him.
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s_camp


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deeluxx3 wrote:
s_camp wrote:
deeluxx3 wrote:
Ringer averaged 3.1 YAC last year. Not exactly lighting it up.

And if a reason for that would be the idea that he didn't get enough carries to get into the groove of the game...well neither is CJ right now (not that I think getting 20 carries would make a difference).


IMO, CJ is a big problem. I won't deny that. He is playing lazily and not running with any heart.

But the offensive line is legitimately 50 times worse right now. No push, no fight, no anything. They are being less physical than CJ, and that's unacceptable.


Ringer kicked CJ's [inappropriate/removed] last year when they had equal chances in a game.

The OL certainly is not 50 times worse than CJ. How can a group of guys who manage to do their job well every once in a while be worse than a guy who hasn't done his job in a year?


Ringer most certainly did not kick CJ's butt last year. Ringer had one decent game against Indy and one nice run against Houston. Other than that, he was no different than Chris. Running into a pile and having nowhere to go.


When is the last time that the O-Line has done their job in run blocking? Because even in the games last season where Chris had big games, it was more of him making something out of nothing and Palmer running plays to the outside than the o-line opening up massive holes for him.


I'm talking about the game against Indy in which Ringer and CJ had an even amount of carries (I think it was 14 each) distributed pretty evenly throughout the game. Ringer gained 60 yards (4.3 avg) and CJ gained 34 yards (2.4 avg). Ringer also did much better in the passing game, but that's not really the heart of the problem with CJ.

The offensive line has provided some holes in both games this year. Yes, they're small and fleeting. CJ the "playmaker" should - and used to - be able to take advantage of them.
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Obie09


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, so footballoutsiders finally posted stats after two games and at this point our run game is literally worse than a bunch of dead people just laying there. It's 300% worse than it was last year so far.

Our left and right tackles are literally the worst blockers to ever live so far this year.

Also we have run up the middle on 60% of runs, with a player who has never been that successful running up the middle and we're at the top of the league with running up the middle. Incompetence at it's best.

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol
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