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My honest opinion of Reggie Bush
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pope137


Joined: 24 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:40 pm    Post subject: My honest opinion of Reggie Bush Reply with quote

I have read several times on this forum, that after this season we will move on from bush. But I don't believe that is in the best interest of this team. This guy is in the same offense that made him a heisman winner. This guy has one of the best attitudes, work ethics, an playing style that other people on this team should try and mimick every day. Reggie deserves a pay day from this organization. He is without our most valuable player. And I wouldn't be surprised if he could get close to an nfl award for his play if he can continue at his current pace.

Plain and simple. If bush plays at least 14 games this year. And avoids serious injury. He should be resigned.

Discuss.
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xXxHOUSEDxXx


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would love to resign Reggie. He's only 27 years old and doesn't have too much wear and tear on him from splitting carries in New Orleans and always being injured.
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pope137


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xXxHOUSEDxXx wrote:
I would love to resign Reggie. He's only 27 years old and doesn't have too much wear and tear on him from splitting carries in New Orleans and always being injured.


This is another great point, he never even really carried the load at USC. I think his great work ethic also plays to his advantage. Although I would have liked to see us pull him after the 2nd td run and primarily work miller. We got to think long term. And working bush in garbage time this week was pointless in my opinion
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phinmun


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My dearest 137th Pope,

Right now, the Miami Dolphins' 1st team offense thrives on Bush's speed and big-play ability. This is a zone blocking scheme where shear size isn't nearly as important as break-away speed.

We've seen that several times, and it's not just been Reggie Bush, although he seems to exemplify it more than anyone else.

Clearly, if his contract was up today it would be smart to re-sign him and keep him around because he's important. I stated in a prior thread that Reggie is the type of player that does effect games in a way that Brandon Marshall couldn't. A RB can make plays for himself which is what Bush does. A WR can't do that in this league unless we're talking about pure speed guys who get on the field on special teams and things like that.

The question of whether or not Reggie Bush will be re-signed will undoubtedly factor in his work ethic, ability to motivate others, say the right things to the media, etc, etc, etc. All that--of course--makes a difference. There's nothing to worry about. The coaches see all that stuff and it matters. How you carry yourself matters. This is a professional working environment. That Brandon Marshall is not here and Legadu Naanee is, should tell you all you need to know about the importance of professionalism.

But, there are 2 things getting in Reggie's way here.

Let's think back to when Ryan Grant was the big thing in Green Bay for a hot minute. As Aaron Rodgers emerged and the passing game came to dominate, Green Bay made little use of the RBs to the point they are fairly interchangable. We've seen that happen on many teams. Similarly, other backs with similar skill-sets also pose threats since they offer the same type of big-play ability.

Lamar Miller looks to be a slightly bigger and more physical back than Reggie Bush but he's going to have to earn his way on the field and prove that given the full load, he can produce the big plays that Reggie does. Ideally, while Reggie isn't really built to be a #1 RB, it appears physically as though Lamar Miller is.

In comparison to what Bush has shown throughout his career however, Lamar Miller is just getting started and has shown virtually nothing. He also has injury in his history which should scare anyone wishing to crown him Reggie Bush 2.0. Reggie is a known commodity while Lamar is a guy with a load of potential who's still got to prove his worth and durability.


If Lamar Miller can show he's capable of replacing Bush, things could change for Bush and this team but it'll be awfully hard to do that in 1 year. Likewise, if Tannehill develops and this offense begins to shift away from the identity it has now, every RB on the roster will lose carries. That's again though hard to expect through only 1 year.

Philbin has already said that the team's 'running identity' is temporary in as many words so basically, right now, we'll ride this thing for all it's worth but it's not the goal of the coaches to put in place a RB-oriented system.

Long term, neither Reggie Bush or Lamar Miller will star in this offense, Tannehill and his WRs will. That said, I doubt Lamar Miller can show enough with the limited carries he'll have to push Bush off this team. I don't see that happening unless another team offers Reggie Bush stupid money--and I don't see that happening either. The only team in the league that would star Reggie Bush--a RB in his late 20s--in their backfield would be the Dolphins. Everyone else would likely want him as a complimentary piece which means Miami will probably be in a position to not only offer him greater success but also a bigger contract worthy of a regular, starting, #1 RB.

That's not a bad thing though. He's already on the team, all you gotta do is find a way to pay the man which there are a million ways to do with the salary cap structure. That's not my business. If there's a way to pay him, they'll know it and get him his money. We don't have to trade picks away or anything like that which is what matters.
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pope137


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry but your evaluation of Miami's O compared to Greenbay's is where we have gone wrong in a lot of ways. And can you really compare Grant to Bush when it comes to ability? i mean bush is arguably not only our best back but also a top 3 receiving option on this team. His worth on this team for next few season as we continue to grow this offense is crucial. I don't care who we draft or sign this team will still need bush next year.

But back to my first statement this O will be built similar but not identical to Greenbays. Look at how much GB has struggled due to the lack of a running game this season. Also its pretty much noted that sherman runs the O. Not philibin. Philbin didnt even have that much control, over the O in GB. Philbin is going to be a great at organization and structure. But hes never going to call plays or really be the one in charge of building the offensive, i honestly feel sherman wears the pants, when it comes to this aspect.
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TheKillerNacho


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So long as he won't cost us the price of an elite back, I am all for re-signing Reggie Bush. He's one of our best offensive players, and a pickup I have been pleasantly surprised with.
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bush is the center piece to the offense. Resigning him seems like a no-brainer, but then again, holding on to Brandon Marshall seemed like a no-brainer as well.

To me, Bush is way to important on and off the field for this team. I'd keep him and pay him well.
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phinmun


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pope137 wrote:
I'm sorry but your evaluation of Miami's O compared to Greenbay's is where we have gone wrong in a lot of ways. And can you really compare Grant to Bush when it comes to ability? i mean bush is arguably not only our best back but also a top 3 receiving option on this team. His worth on this team for next few season as we continue to grow this offense is crucial. I don't care who we draft or sign this team will still need bush next year.

But back to my first statement this O will be built similar but not identical to Greenbays. Look at how much GB has struggled due to the lack of a running game this season. Also its pretty much noted that sherman runs the O. Not philibin. Philbin didnt even have that much control, over the O in GB. Philbin is going to be a great at organization and structure. But hes never going to call plays or really be the one in charge of building the offensive, i honestly feel sherman wears the pants, when it comes to this aspect.


Maybe I wasn't clear. I foresee the possibility where Bush is not as valuable to this team as he is now.

I think in a year's time, his value will be very high meaning he'll likely be re-signed however, he will have established himself much moreso than he did at the time when the Dolphins acquired him meaning that replicating the 2-yr deal we gave him won't be a option. We'll be re-signing him long term and for a larger amount. I'm thinking he'll be looking at a 4-yr or 5-yr deal. As someone said, maybe the last 'big' contract that would take him well into his early 30s.

In an ironic twist of fate, while Brandon Marshall's value went down after a couple 'average' seasons with the Dolphins, Reggie Bush's value will actually go up because he'll have shown the league that he's a more complete player than they thought. He'll have proved something and become, if not a bigger name, then at least a more respect one. Marshall already had that respect and the lack of offense in Miami hurt his value. With Bush, he'll actually benefit however.

Also, for a similar type of player, check out Matt Forte. Not the same guy, but the team was in a similar position where they basically had to pay him for the production he had given them. He suffered a serious injury last year and now has begun this year by immediately getting injured again. He'll probably be out a month or more. These guys have to stay healthy to be productive and they have to be able to take a beating and often play through injury. The RB position is one where you're going to get a few cuts and scrapes and you've got to prove your durability.

Well, Bush is the type of guy that has to show he can stay healthy. Last year was great and he proved a lot of people wrong in that he actually could it--once. Making it through last season was great, but he's got to show more. He has to continue the production and the durability if he wants to be taken seriously come contract time. If he can stay healthy through this season then that will prove a lot more than just 16 straight games. Back-to-back seasons is big.

However, Bush has had a problem staying on the field throughout his career. The team won't be able to afford to hand Bush a large contract if injury is going to be a worry. Keep that in mind, because he's not out of the woods yet on that issue. He's on the right path but he's not there yet.

So the problem is that the team might be alright with the salary Bush is looking for but they'll be hesistant to offer him the contract length because while Bush might maintain the staring role in Miami for another season or two, when he finally got to those last couple big years on his deal, he might be facing a situation where he's simply making more money and maybe not contributing enough to warrant his expense. That far down the line health, injury and overall ability might start to become a problem as well.

If Reggie is fine with signing a 2- or 3-yr deal, that's one thing, that's not a big decision. If he's looking for 4- or 5-yr deal then the team will want to negotiate. If Reggie handles the load this year and shows that he can taken a beating and stay on the field and do the things that a #1 RB does then I'm all for re-signing him but we're talking about one possible future there.

In 4 or 5 years time we're going to have drafted WRs in high spots I think so we're going to be looking for those guys to produce and paying top dollar to Reggie Bush who at the time will be over 30 might be troublesome if at that point the offense isn't being run around him like it is now.

Reggie is in the spotlight right now. He's healthy and running with passion right now. However, rulres of the league are not there to benefit the running game. They're in place to benefit the passing game and in particular the QB. That means that Philbin is going to try and build around Tannehill. As soon as we can shift away from the running game, we will. Having a big-play back out of the backfield is great but I'm not sure that he really fits with what the team ultimately wants to do.

I'm thinking about the situation we'll be in 4 and 5 years down the road. If Reggie only wants 2 or 3 years, it's a completely different story where over that time frame he'll probably be important to the team.

That said, up until Reggie Bush went off for those big runs in the 2nd half, he did an awful lot of dancing in the backfield. He was setting himself up to be hammered for not having gotten more from pretty decent blocking. Thankfully 1 big play started a run of great offense in the 2nd half BUT...the offense looked bad in the 1st half and Reggie was missing big opportunites where a more traditional "North & South" runner would have produced more.

This was against one of the weaker defenses, too. One half of a football game does not show me everything I need to see, especially when I actually thought you were pretty lousy in the other half. I'm surprised no one's talking about this because had it continued and had we lost, we'd be KILLING Bush for it, I think.

Bush isn't going to always have those huge plays to boost his numbers which is where it looks like Lamar Miller might actually be a contender to compete for reps and take over the job. It's a big stretch but this offense isn't going to hand the ball to the RB 30 times a game and wait, wait, wait for a big play in 3 or 4 years time. We'll demand a more reliable and tougher breed of RB. Will that be Miller? I'm not sure, we'll have to wait and see, but there's a whole season ahead of us.
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Russ57


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is all about money. How much can you tie up in RB's? Daniel Thomas was a second round pick. In a few years he will be looking for his money. Are we ready to say we will cut ties with him then? I think all would agree it is better to have one back that is bigger, more of a power runner. Then what about Lamar Miller?

We do have to consider what the Dolphins offense will look like in a few years. Teams like the Broncos (of the past) have shown the right blocking scheme/OL can make any number of backs look great.

I think Bush has earned his big pay day. I just don't think we are in the right place to give it to him. Better a superbowl contender steps up and offers him a nice contract. I love what he has done for us and I trust that he loves that we gave him the shot to get that big contract. It has been a win/wn for both sides. I just don't see it being the same in the future if Tanny develops and we become the pass happy team we all envison.

Lamar should be able to handle third down/scat back/screen play duty just fine. I'm less sure of Daniel Thomas. I just don't see the heart of a tough runner but hopefully I'm wrong. I'd like a Ricky Watters type.

We, as fans, have to start understanding the fiscally responsible side of the game. The Dolphins have stunk it up at that. We need to start acting like the Ravens and the Steelers if we want to get anywhere. That means a lot of drafting replacement players early and trading guys in their 3rd and 4th years for higher round picks then they were drafted. Only the true elites get extended.....or only those you don't already have a replacement for.

So we better find an answer for Dansby and Burnett soon. We need to decide if Wake, Odrick, Starks, and Solia are really worth tying up long term. We need to think in terms of drafting four potential starters every year. It is totally fine if they need a couple/few years to develop. And we need to draft with an eye towards who's contract is coming up.

Done right it should be possible to get a skill guy in the first like a WR/CB or OT/DE, a RB/LB/DT in the 2nd, a safety/nickel back/guard in the third, etc.
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phinmun


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Russ57 wrote:
It is all about money. How much can you tie up in RB's? Daniel Thomas was a second round pick. In a few years he will be looking for his money. Are we ready to say we will cut ties with him then? I think all would agree it is better to have one back that is bigger, more of a power runner. Then what about Lamar Miller?

We do have to consider what the Dolphins offense will look like in a few years. Teams like the Broncos (of the past) have shown the right blocking scheme/OL can make any number of backs look great.

I think Bush has earned his big pay day. I just don't think we are in the right place to give it to him. Better a superbowl contender steps up and offers him a nice contract. I love what he has done for us and I trust that he loves that we gave him the shot to get that big contract. It has been a win/wn for both sides. I just don't see it being the same in the future if Tanny develops and we become the pass happy team we all envison.

Lamar should be able to handle third down/scat back/screen play duty just fine. I'm less sure of Daniel Thomas. I just don't see the heart of a tough runner but hopefully I'm wrong. I'd like a Ricky Watters type.

We, as fans, have to start understanding the fiscally responsible side of the game. The Dolphins have stunk it up at that. We need to start acting like the Ravens and the Steelers if we want to get anywhere. That means a lot of drafting replacement players early and trading guys in their 3rd and 4th years for higher round picks then they were drafted. Only the true elites get extended.....or only those you don't already have a replacement for.

So we better find an answer for Dansby and Burnett soon. We need to decide if Wake, Odrick, Starks, and Solia are really worth tying up long term. We need to think in terms of drafting four potential starters every year. It is totally fine if they need a couple/few years to develop. And we need to draft with an eye towards who's contract is coming up.

Done right it should be possible to get a skill guy in the first like a WR/CB or OT/DE, a RB/LB/DT in the 2nd, a safety/nickel back/guard in the third, etc.


I don't think Daniel Thomas is going to be around long. Everything's lining up perfectly for him to get released. If Miller stays healthy, Thomas will sink to 3rd on the depth chart. Even if Bush leaves and Thomas becomes our 'second guy' behind Miller, there's no way we're going to offer Daniel Thomas any type of serious money to play like that. If in that case he wants to sign with someone else who'll pay him better money, the team will let him walk.

Daniel Thomas has a lot to show if he wants to stick with this team. He needs to be tougher. He needs to be dependable on 3rd and short. He needs to show he can catch the ball effectively and create yards after the catch. He needs to show he can stay healthy. He needs to show that his fumbling issues are behind him.

If he can't do all that then there isn't a chance is heck we'll re-sign him at all.
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ovaw8lover


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:49 pm    Post subject: Re: My honest opinion of Reggie Bush Reply with quote

pope137 wrote:
I have read several times on this forum, that after this season we will move on from bush. But I don't believe that is in the best interest of this team. This guy is in the same offense that made him a heisman winner. This guy has one of the best attitudes, work ethics, an playing style that other people on this team should try and mimick every day. Reggie deserves a pay day from this organization. He is without our most valuable player. And I wouldn't be surprised if he could get close to an nfl award for his play if he can continue at his current pace.

Plain and simple. If bush plays at least 14 games this year. And avoids serious injury. He should be resigned.

Discuss.


While I agree with you, I have caution in giving runningbacks lucrative deals in a contract year. I am still waiting for the ole Reggie Bush to return. The one that has reoccuring hamstring issues. My guess they will reoccur once he gets his contract. I have a strong bias against runningbacks and Chris Johnson has done little to alleviate my concerns.
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dolphan9954


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think running backs are a dime a dozen, Reggie Bush's are not though. His value as a leader, an example, and of course as a playmaker is to much to let go. If he stays healthy this year, give him a 3 year deal. Lamar Miller and Daniel Thomas can still get plenty of work, because once the offense is fully developed and we have capable WR (next year Pray ) his role may shift more towards being a running back on early downs and then a slot back/matchup problem in the passing game. I want to see sets like this soon:

WR____________TGCGT__Clay_____Bush_______WR


_________________QB__RB

With Hartline to the left, Armstrong wide right, Bush and Clay (an alternate would be Bess in Clay's spot or Bush in Clay's spot and Bess in the slot) and Miller in the backfied. In the huddle it looks like an I Form, but it plays like a 4 WR set.
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phinmun


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolphan9954 wrote:
I think running backs are a dime a dozen, Reggie Bush's are not though. His value as a leader, an example, and of course as a playmaker is to much to let go. If he stays healthy this year, give him a 3 year deal. Lamar Miller and Daniel Thomas can still get plenty of work, because once the offense is fully developed and we have capable WR (next year Pray ) his role may shift more towards being a running back on early downs and then a slot back/matchup problem in the passing game. I want to see sets like this soon:

WR____________TGCGT__Clay_____Bush_______WR


_________________QB__RB

With Hartline to the left, Armstrong wide right, Bush and Clay (an alternate would be Bess in Clay's spot or Bush in Clay's spot and Bess in the slot) and Miller in the backfied. In the huddle it looks like an I Form, but it plays like a 4 WR set.


This here is where you need to be careful. Reggie Bush running 4 yards downfield to a spot in front of a LB and using his agility to create yards after the catch is not the same thing as lining up as a WR and running routes. That's a completely different thing.

To my knowledge, Reggie Bush's best days will be as he was used last weekend against the Raiders. Bad teams that do a poor job of tackling will ultimately give up big plays. A stout run defense however won't give Reggie those big plays and instead he'll be dancing in the backfield.

Why all of a sudden he's a route-running, slot guy I've got no clue. You're pulling that out of thin air as far as I can tell. That's wishful thinking.
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pope137


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="phinmun"]
dolphan9954 wrote:
I think running backs are a dime a dozen, Reggie Bush's are not though. His value as a leader, an example, and of course as a playmaker is to much to let go. If he stays healthy this year, give him a 3 year deal. Lamar Miller and Daniel Thomas can still get plenty of work, because once the offense is fully developed and we have capable WR (next year Pray ) his role may shift more towards being a running back on early downs and then a slot back/matchup problem in the passing game. I want to see sets like this soon:

WR____________TGCGT__Clay_____Bush_______WR


_________________QB__RB

With Hartline to the left, Armstrong wide right, Bush and Clay (an alternate would be Bess in Clay's spot or Bush in Clay's spot and Bess in the slot) and Miller in the backfied. In the huddle it looks like an I Form, but it plays like a 4 WR set.


This here is where you need to be careful. Reggie Bush running 4 yards downfield to a spot in front of a LB and using his agility to create yards after the catch is not the same thing as lining up as a WR and running routes. That's a completely different thing.

To my knowledge, Reggie Bush's best days will be as he was used last weekend against the Raiders. Bad teams that do a poor job of tackling will ultimately give up big plays. A stout run defense however won't give Reggie those big plays and instead he'll be dancing in the backfield.

Why all of a sudden he's a route-running, slot guy I've got no clue. You're pulling that out of thin air as far as I can tell. That's wishful thinking.[/quote]

Reggie bush has been always seen as WR/receving back kind of guy,
Thats basically how New Orleans used him..... He's basically a Wideout on roids. lol
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dolphan9954


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="pope137"]
phinmun wrote:
dolphan9954 wrote:
I think running backs are a dime a dozen, Reggie Bush's are not though. His value as a leader, an example, and of course as a playmaker is to much to let go. If he stays healthy this year, give him a 3 year deal. Lamar Miller and Daniel Thomas can still get plenty of work, because once the offense is fully developed and we have capable WR (next year Pray ) his role may shift more towards being a running back on early downs and then a slot back/matchup problem in the passing game. I want to see sets like this soon:

WR____________TGCGT__Clay_____Bush_______WR


_________________QB__RB

With Hartline to the left, Armstrong wide right, Bush and Clay (an alternate would be Bess in Clay's spot or Bush in Clay's spot and Bess in the slot) and Miller in the backfied. In the huddle it looks like an I Form, but it plays like a 4 WR set.


This here is where you need to be careful. Reggie Bush running 4 yards downfield to a spot in front of a LB and using his agility to create yards after the catch is not the same thing as lining up as a WR and running routes. That's a completely different thing.

To my knowledge, Reggie Bush's best days will be as he was used last weekend against the Raiders. Bad teams that do a poor job of tackling will ultimately give up big plays. A stout run defense however won't give Reggie those big plays and instead he'll be dancing in the backfield.

Why all of a sudden he's a route-running, slot guy I've got no clue. You're pulling that out of thin air as far as I can tell. That's wishful thinking.[/quote]

Reggie bush has been always seen as WR/receving back kind of guy,
Thats basically how New Orleans used him..... He's basically a Wideout on roids. lol


Is Reggie Bush, Devone Bess? No.

What I am saying is this, perhaps I wasn't clear:

When defensive coordinator sees the personnel on the field as "21" 2 backs, 1 tight end, 2 WR, then they will send out a base defense. Bush and Lamar Miller have worked as receivers at times in camp, so the personnel could work almost as an empty set. Reggie Bush basically was a wide receiver in NO for a few years. Is he a Welker type of a slot receiver? No that's asinine to think, but is a matchup problem in the slot for any LB or S in the league? Yes he is.
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