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What is going on with Wes Welker?
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What's happening?
Punishment for something that's going on behind the scenes
13%
 13%  [ 3 ]
Trying to keep him fresh for later on the season
4%
 4%  [ 1 ]
Secret injury that we don't know about
40%
 40%  [ 9 ]
Giving a professional favor, keeping him healthy since he doesn't have a longterm contract
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Belichick wants to see how we'd fare if we let him walk
40%
 40%  [ 9 ]
Total Votes : 22

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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 23703
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
Welker on the Trade Block?

I havent read this thread - but someone want to "cliff notes" me on what is happening?


Wes Welker has been playing in a reduced number of snaps through the first 2 games. Speculation has ensued as to why.
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wpdougie2180


Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sciz wrote:
NinjaZX6R wrote:
Michael Lombardi thinks that Juilian is a better outside WR than Wes Welker is. He also said that the Pats are trying (before the Herno injury) to have 2 outside WRs along w. their two TE (and Aaron does the inside damage like Wes does).
He alluded to the 2007 season where in the beginning, it was Moss and Stallworth/Gaffney starting and Wes got on the field in nickel WR sets.

In my opinion, this is one of the best explanations for what's going on.

I've been complaining for over a year now about how Welker just doesn't fit with the 2TE offense. If you have 2 TEs and you want Welker in the slot, you have three options. You can put both WRs on one side, you can put a TE outside Welker, or you can go 5-wide. If you put both TEs inside next to an offensive lineman and a WR on each side, Welker's effectiveness is drastically decreased.

Now, I didn't expect Edelman to be the guy to win the outside spot from Welker, but beating out Welker for an outside WR job isn't nearly as hard as it sounds. Edelman's not a fast or big option outside, but he's both bigger and faster than Welker, and it sounds like he really improved his route running over the offseason.


I don't get this line of thinking didn't the Patriots run the 2TE set all last year and Welker had his best year ever doing it as an outside receiver. It has to be either an injury or something going on behind the scenes because you don't replace the league leader in catches and 2nd in yards in the exact same formation because of blocking or you think Edelman can open it up more (they line of thinking was to get more out of the position Branch played from LLoyd). How much more production can you get from that position? This reeks of tampering with something that isn't broken just for the sake of tampering, if Welker isn't injured (a big IF) at what point does your past factor in, for example if Belichick just started giving snaps to Mallett would people say he earned it?
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wpdougie2180


Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NinjaZX6R wrote:
Michael Lombardi thinks that Juilian is a better outside WR than Wes Welker is. He also said that the Pats are trying (before the Herno injury) to have 2 outside WRs along w. their two TE (and Aaron does the inside damage like Wes does).
He alluded to the 2007 season where in the beginning, it was Moss and Stallworth/Gaffney starting and Wes got on the field in nickel WR sets.


http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4706083/welker-evolves-as-patriots-offense-clicks

Another example from early last year why thinking Welker was simply a slot receiver is wrong since they ran the 2 TE set last year too.
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Troy Brown


Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 24151
Location: Newport, Rhode Island
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
I'd also like to point out four more things:

1. If we're going to start basing our arguments around what Wes Welker says, perhaps we should examine his tone and demeanor. Absolutely nothing in his tone or demeanor in his comments suggests he is unhappy with the decision to play him less. Think about it:


He does sound as miserable as always. The man didn't even crack a smile during the foot presser.
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NinjaZX6R


Joined: 05 Jun 2011
Posts: 9060
Location: Columbus, Ohio
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wpdougie2180 wrote:
NinjaZX6R wrote:
Michael Lombardi thinks that Juilian is a better outside WR than Wes Welker is. He also said that the Pats are trying (before the Herno injury) to have 2 outside WRs along w. their two TE (and Aaron does the inside damage like Wes does).
He alluded to the 2007 season where in the beginning, it was Moss and Stallworth/Gaffney starting and Wes got on the field in nickel WR sets.


http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4706083/welker-evolves-as-patriots-offense-clicks

Another example from early last year why thinking Welker was simply a slot receiver is wrong since they ran the 2 TE set last year too.


Aside from a quick out and 1 play where he beat a zone coverage of Eric Smith and Revis on a streak play, Wes does most of his damage between the numbers. It's rare that he runs a comeback route, a go route, deep post, shoulder fade or a deep in (seen it from the slot but not on the outside).

Guess the Pats are tired of teams hogging the middle. If you look at the 2010 and 2011 offenses, you have 3 guys in Wes, Aaron and Gronk who dominate the middle of the field and one guy in Branch who aside from a broken play could rarely beat someone up the field.
Both times when we played the Giants and Jets, they were playing a lot of Cover 1s daring the Pats to go deep on them. And we couldn't.

Now they have Lloyd who could go deep and are looking for a complementary no. 2 WR for Lloyd. I think it could be Branch since he can run the slants, comebacks, fade (rarely) deep in, deep post, go routes (occasionally) deep out etc. I can't see Julian doing that.


Last edited by NinjaZX6R on Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Sciz


Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 15749
Location: Iowa
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wpdougie2180 wrote:
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4706083/welker-evolves-as-patriots-offense-clicks

Another example from early last year why thinking Welker was simply a slot receiver is wrong since they ran the 2 TE set last year too.

Welker started out hot, but he trailed off a lot. In the first five games last season, he had 13 receptions for 428 yards on passes thrown at least 11 yards down the field. In the last 11 games, he had 11 receptions for 267 on receptions at least 11 yards downfield.
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Sciz


Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 15749
Location: Iowa
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wpdougie2180 wrote:
I don't get this line of thinking didn't the Patriots run the 2TE set all last year and Welker had his best year ever doing it as an outside receiver.


I hate citing PFF, but they say that Welker was targeted in the slot 146 times last year. ESPN says he was targeted 172 times total. That would mean that 85% of Welker's targets were when he was in the slot last year.
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Troy Brown


Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 24151
Location: Newport, Rhode Island
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NinjaZX6R wrote:
wpdougie2180 wrote:
NinjaZX6R wrote:
Michael Lombardi thinks that Juilian is a better outside WR than Wes Welker is. He also said that the Pats are trying (before the Herno injury) to have 2 outside WRs along w. their two TE (and Aaron does the inside damage like Wes does).
He alluded to the 2007 season where in the beginning, it was Moss and Stallworth/Gaffney starting and Wes got on the field in nickel WR sets.


http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4706083/welker-evolves-as-patriots-offense-clicks

Another example from early last year why thinking Welker was simply a slot receiver is wrong since they ran the 2 TE set last year too.


Aside from a quick out and 1 play where he beat a zone coverage of Eric Smith and Revis on a streak play, Wes does most of his damage between the numbers. It's rare that he runs a comeback route, a go route, deep post, shoulder fade or a deep in (seen it from the slot but not on the outside).

Guess the Pats are tired of teams hogging the middle. If you look at the 2010 and 2011 offenses, you have 3 guys in Wes, Aaron and Gronk who dominate the middle of the field and one guy in Branch who aside from a broken play could rarely beat someone up the field.
Both times when we played the Giants and Jets, they were playing a lot of Cover 1s daring the Pats to go deep on them. And we couldn't.

Now they have Lloyd who could go deep and are looking for a complementary no. 2 WR for Lloyd. I think it could be Branch since he can run the slants, comebacks, fade (rarely) deep in, deep post, go routes (occasionally) deep out etc. I can't see Julian doing that.


I don't know how rare those routes are for Welker. We've already seen him run a few of those this year. It's rare that they are completed for big gains, but Welker runs pretty close to a full route tree for the Patriots, it'd seem.

But what do I know
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