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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 20445
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Raidin wrote:
Changing scheme has nothing to do with it,far more likely changing position did. Wiz just got abused, hopefully it's his injury but if not I'd prefer to see Parsons in and Wiz back at LG.



Every player on offense from last year has regress except maybe Palmer and he isnt good either. That is scheme change and coaching.



How is it scheme change?


Cooper and Barnes are to slow footed for ZBS. Wiz looks to be thinking to much about where he is suppose to be. McFadden sucked in the ZBS before. Please explain how guys good or bad got even worse from last year.
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 4984
Location: Dublin
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
Raidin wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Raidin wrote:
Changing scheme has nothing to do with it,far more likely changing position did. Wiz just got abused, hopefully it's his injury but if not I'd prefer to see Parsons in and Wiz back at LG.



Every player on offense from last year has regress except maybe Palmer and he isnt good either. That is scheme change and coaching.



How is it scheme change?


Cooper and Barnes are to slow footed for ZBS. Wiz looks to be thinking to much about where he is suppose to be. McFadden sucked in the ZBS before. Please explain how guys good or bad got even worse from last year.



Thinking were to be? Confused He doesn't have to be anywhere, he just has to block the guy standing right in front him. I agree Cooper and Barnes are suited to ZBS but it was always going to be difficult for us to replace everyone when we had to picks or money.
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BlackPrestige92 wrote:
Matt Flynn is going to do a good job. He has a poise about him and that's good to see. I am ecstatic to welcome him into the Raider Nation.
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 31760
Location: Rochester, NY
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Raidin wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Raidin wrote:
Changing scheme has nothing to do with it,far more likely changing position did. Wiz just got abused, hopefully it's his injury but if not I'd prefer to see Parsons in and Wiz back at LG.



Every player on offense from last year has regress except maybe Palmer and he isnt good either. That is scheme change and coaching.



How is it scheme change?


Cooper and Barnes are to slow footed for ZBS. Wiz looks to be thinking to much about where he is suppose to be. McFadden sucked in the ZBS before. Please explain how guys good or bad got even worse from last year.



Thinking were to be? Confused He doesn't have to be anywhere, he just has to block the guy standing right in front him. I agree Cooper and Barnes are suited to ZBS but it was always going to be difficult for us to replace everyone when we had to picks or money.


Do you know how a ZBS works?
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 4984
Location: Dublin
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Raidin wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Raidin wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Raidin wrote:
Changing scheme has nothing to do with it,far more likely changing position did. Wiz just got abused, hopefully it's his injury but if not I'd prefer to see Parsons in and Wiz back at LG.



Every player on offense from last year has regress except maybe Palmer and he isnt good either. That is scheme change and coaching.



How is it scheme change?


Cooper and Barnes are to slow footed for ZBS. Wiz looks to be thinking to much about where he is suppose to be. McFadden sucked in the ZBS before. Please explain how guys good or bad got even worse from last year.



Thinking were to be? Confused He doesn't have to be anywhere, he just has to block the guy standing right in front him. I agree Cooper and Barnes are suited to ZBS but it was always going to be difficult for us to replace everyone when we had to picks or money.


Do you know how a ZBS works?



I'll let you enlighten me on this one.
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BlackPrestige92 wrote:
Matt Flynn is going to do a good job. He has a poise about him and that's good to see. I am ecstatic to welcome him into the Raider Nation.
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OakRaiders3828


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 9837
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I though Wiz would be good in the ZBS. He's not the biggest lineman in the world, but he's quick and athletic, which is more important in the ZBS.
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OakRaiders3828


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 9837
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Raidin wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Raidin wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Raidin wrote:
Changing scheme has nothing to do with it,far more likely changing position did. Wiz just got abused, hopefully it's his injury but if not I'd prefer to see Parsons in and Wiz back at LG.



Every player on offense from last year has regress except maybe Palmer and he isnt good either. That is scheme change and coaching.



How is it scheme change?


Cooper and Barnes are to slow footed for ZBS. Wiz looks to be thinking to much about where he is suppose to be. McFadden sucked in the ZBS before. Please explain how guys good or bad got even worse from last year.



Thinking were to be? Confused He doesn't have to be anywhere, he just has to block the guy standing right in front him. I agree Cooper and Barnes are suited to ZBS but it was always going to be difficult for us to replace everyone when we had to picks or money.


Do you know how a ZBS works?


He's actually kinda right, basically, if you're uncovered you double team to where the play is going, and if you're covered you block that guy. Obviously there is more blocking techniques but that's the basics of it.
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 31760
Location: Rochester, NY
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Raidin wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Raidin wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Raidin wrote:
Changing scheme has nothing to do with it,far more likely changing position did. Wiz just got abused, hopefully it's his injury but if not I'd prefer to see Parsons in and Wiz back at LG.



Every player on offense from last year has regress except maybe Palmer and he isnt good either. That is scheme change and coaching.



How is it scheme change?


Cooper and Barnes are to slow footed for ZBS. Wiz looks to be thinking to much about where he is suppose to be. McFadden sucked in the ZBS before. Please explain how guys good or bad got even worse from last year.



Thinking were to be? Confused He doesn't have to be anywhere, he just has to block the guy standing right in front him. I agree Cooper and Barnes are suited to ZBS but it was always going to be difficult for us to replace everyone when we had to picks or money.


Do you know how a ZBS works?


He's actually kinda right, basically, if you're uncovered you double team to where the play is going, and if you're covered you block that guy. Obviously there is more blocking techniques but that's the basics of it.


You go to a zone then block. You don't just stand around and hit someone. That's how Wisnewski could get confused about where to be.
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RaidersAreOne


Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Posts: 7990
Location: Canada, but don't worry... i'm not one of those damn dirty french.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTypGbEUqYo

TKO is pissed.
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 4984
Location: Dublin
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Raidin wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Raidin wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Raidin wrote:
Changing scheme has nothing to do with it,far more likely changing position did. Wiz just got abused, hopefully it's his injury but if not I'd prefer to see Parsons in and Wiz back at LG.



Every player on offense from last year has regress except maybe Palmer and he isnt good either. That is scheme change and coaching.



How is it scheme change?


Cooper and Barnes are to slow footed for ZBS. Wiz looks to be thinking to much about where he is suppose to be. McFadden sucked in the ZBS before. Please explain how guys good or bad got even worse from last year.



Thinking were to be? Confused He doesn't have to be anywhere, he just has to block the guy standing right in front him. I agree Cooper and Barnes are suited to ZBS but it was always going to be difficult for us to replace everyone when we had to picks or money.


Do you know how a ZBS works?


He's actually kinda right, basically, if you're uncovered you double team to where the play is going, and if you're covered you block that guy. Obviously there is more blocking techniques but that's the basics of it.


You go to a zone then block. You don't just stand around and hit someone. That's how Wisnewski could get confused about where to be.



No not really. Some linemen will be asked to block guys who are in their zone and others will be asked to move down field and block there, similar to being covered an uncovered. When Solia is standing opposite of Wiz and under his nose than there is no question about who he has to block and he should never be getting confused, it's pretty damn obvious who he has to block.
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BlackPrestige92 wrote:
Matt Flynn is going to do a good job. He has a poise about him and that's good to see. I am ecstatic to welcome him into the Raider Nation.
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 20445
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaidersAreOne wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTypGbEUqYo

TKO is pissed.


He is so outta here soon.
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 5219
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
RaidersAreOne wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTypGbEUqYo

TKO is pissed.


He is so outta here soon.


HAHA. I love when TK speaks (as detrimental as it is). He has always been my insight into the disposition of the locker room. 1) He talks too much, 2) He doesn't understand how to handle the media (which speaks to the culture of the team), 3)Clearly his disposition and demeanor are that of a loser, 4) The key word he used that I hated the most was "discouraging".

You don't often hear a player suggest "I'm discouraged" which reeks of hopelessness. Good thing we reupped him! Again, TK needs a fresh start to reach his potential but the core of this team must be broken up to change the culture.
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 5219
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:

Do you know how a ZBS works?

I'll let you enlighten me on this one.


Of course there are different versions. However, in the most simplistic way I personally would explain it:

Lighter, quicker, more athletic offensive lineman are used to wall off defensive lineman and continue pushing them in the direction that they already wanted to go. In essence, using their power against them to create overpursuit lanes by which the RB can use to exploit the defense. In many cases the OL will use the direction of the play to his advantage to cut the unsuspecting backside DL or LB at the exact moment the defensive player realizes the RB is cutting back. The most common ZBS run is the "stretch". As suggested by the name, the RB will stretch the defense on a pitch and make a single cut up field when he senses overpursuit.

In ZBS pass protection, rather than having a specific man, as in PBS, the OL is responsible for an area. This could mean distinctly different responsibilities and requires the unit to process the pass attack quickly and accurately. Again the objective to not to control the LoS through power but to disrupt the attack just long enough for the QB to get the ball away. Which is why a ZBS is often paired with WCO because it gets the ball away quickly.

At least this is the way I know ZBS to be. I'm sure others can contribute their experiences.
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2013 Mancrush: DT Richardson, OT Joeckel, FS Vaccaro, FS Rambo, WR Dobson, RB Michael, TE McDonald, OT Foketi, WR Swope
Raidin wrote:
My love for Rod is growing.
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3566
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Raidin wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Raidin wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Raidin wrote:
Changing scheme has nothing to do with it,far more likely changing position did. Wiz just got abused, hopefully it's his injury but if not I'd prefer to see Parsons in and Wiz back at LG.



Every player on offense from last year has regress except maybe Palmer and he isnt good either. That is scheme change and coaching.



How is it scheme change?


Cooper and Barnes are to slow footed for ZBS. Wiz looks to be thinking to much about where he is suppose to be. McFadden sucked in the ZBS before. Please explain how guys good or bad got even worse from last year.



Thinking were to be? Confused He doesn't have to be anywhere, he just has to block the guy standing right in front him. I agree Cooper and Barnes are suited to ZBS but it was always going to be difficult for us to replace everyone when we had to picks or money.


Do you know how a ZBS works?


He's actually kinda right, basically, if you're uncovered you double team to where the play is going, and if you're covered you block that guy. Obviously there is more blocking techniques but that's the basics of it.


Or go for the LB
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 31760
Location: Rochester, NY
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
RaidersAreOne wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTypGbEUqYo

TKO is pissed.


He is so outta here soon.


I'd be cool with it for a decent to above average CB to be perfectly honest. I don't think McKenzie or Allen have the patience for this kind of stuff like previous regimes did and we desperately need a decent CB who we can keep for the future. I'd like to see more Houston and Bryant inside to get another look for pass rushing. Or even try Bilukidi in spells.
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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5296
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
RaidersAreOne wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTypGbEUqYo

TKO is pissed.


He is so outta here soon.


I'd be cool with it for a decent to above average CB to be perfectly honest. I don't think McKenzie or Allen have the patience for this kind of stuff like previous regimes did and we desperately need a decent CB who we can keep for the future. I'd like to see more Houston and Bryant inside to get another look for pass rushing. Or even try Bilukidi in spells.


+1

TK is good, but d-line is our deepest position and I'd rather give up some of that to shore up much weaker areas. Plus, we have all been waiting to see Houston inside for a while. Houston, Seymour, Bryant, Shaugnessy, and Biukidi offer us quite a bit of versatility.
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