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Redskins DB Madieu Williams fined $21,000 for hit on Graham
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THESKINSFAN21


Joined: 14 Jul 2011
Posts: 4527
Location: West Palm Beach
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DCRED wrote:
footy_29 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
THESKINSFAN21 wrote:
Slateman wrote:
THESKINSFAN21 wrote:
Ouch,that is significant Shocked


The hit was significantly stupid and warranted the fine

Never said it didnt. Just saying,thats a big chunk of his salary.
Not really He's making 890 k


When you factor in agent fees, and then everything else everyone else would have to pay (taxes, mortgage, family related expenses, transportation, pension), it's actually a pretty big impact. Even if this guys make more than we do (or at least me - not hard), that's still a car.


If I'm doing the math right:

21,000 is 2.359% of 890,000

The fine sent a message because yes, it is a car, but turtle is right the amount is certainly not that significant compared to what he makes

Let's say he made 30,000 for perspective. 2.36% would be $708. That's like a paycheck (NOT gamecheck) for that salary. Sure it might hurt if he was living paycheck to paycheck, or making $30,000, but with more than one year of making over $800,000 he would have to be borderline retarded (with a college degree) to be living that way, especially in the uncertainty of the NFL.
A house, multiple cars, etc should all be paid for at this point as turtle mentioned.

Should be,but we see ”intelligent” guys (Brunell,Batch) go bankrupt whilr they still are in the NFL so I will never assume any player is in the clear financially.
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DCRED


Joined: 07 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

THESKINSFAN21 wrote:

Should be,but we see ”intelligent” guys (Brunell,Batch) go bankrupt whilr they still are in the NFL so I will never assume any player is in the clear financially.


I have 0 sympathy for anyone who made over $500,000 a year for about a decade and has nothing to show for it. If I only made that for 3 years I could retire with multiple houses, multiple cars, etc.
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DCRED wrote:
THESKINSFAN21 wrote:

Should be,but we see ”intelligent” guys (Brunell,Batch) go bankrupt whilr they still are in the NFL so I will never assume any player is in the clear financially.


I have 0 sympathy for anyone who made over $500,000 a year for about a decade and has nothing to show for it. If I only made that for 3 years I could retire with multiple houses, multiple cars, etc.
For guys like Brunnell the economy got them like it's gotten a million Americans. He had a lot of money in real estate and the market collapsed. Could have happened to anyone of us and to one of us in here it has.
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DCRED


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
DCRED wrote:
THESKINSFAN21 wrote:

Should be,but we see ”intelligent” guys (Brunell,Batch) go bankrupt whilr they still are in the NFL so I will never assume any player is in the clear financially.


I have 0 sympathy for anyone who made over $500,000 a year for about a decade and has nothing to show for it. If I only made that for 3 years I could retire with multiple houses, multiple cars, etc.
For guys like Brunnell the economy got them like it's gotten a million Americans. He had a lot of money in real estate and the market collapsed. Could have happened to anyone of us and to one of us in here it has.


BS excuse. With that amount of money houses should be paid in full, as well as vehicles etc.-- THEN make real estate investments afterwards. If only "investments" were made with continuing mortgage payments and car payments and leases---- Then that's just pure Greed and stupidity.


Last edited by DCRED on Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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THESKINSFAN21


Joined: 14 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DCRED wrote:
THESKINSFAN21 wrote:

Should be,but we see ”intelligent” guys (Brunell,Batch) go bankrupt whilr they still are in the NFL so I will never assume any player is in the clear financially.


I have 0 sympathy for anyone who made over $500,000 a year for about a decade and has nothing to show for it. If I only made that for 3 years I could retire with multiple houses, multiple cars, etc.

I have 0 sympathy as well just to be clear.
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DCRED wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
DCRED wrote:
THESKINSFAN21 wrote:

Should be,but we see ”intelligent” guys (Brunell,Batch) go bankrupt whilr they still are in the NFL so I will never assume any player is in the clear financially.


I have 0 sympathy for anyone who made over $500,000 a year for about a decade and has nothing to show for it. If I only made that for 3 years I could retire with multiple houses, multiple cars, etc.
For guys like Brunnell the economy got them like it's gotten a million Americans. He had a lot of money in real estate and the market collapsed. Could have happened to anyone of us and to one of us in here it has.


BS excuse. With that amount of money houses should be paid in full, as well as vehicles etc.-- THEN make real estate investments afterwards. If only "investments" were made with continuing mortgage payments and car payments and leases---- Then that's just pure Greed and stupidity.
Man, you are really uniformed. How old are you? Do you understand investing in property in Florida and how the market totally bottomed out and all the houses lost all their value and they aren't coming back?

I live in Montgomery county and the dc area didn't take that bad of a hit but my house is still worth 150,000 less than what I paid in 06. Now imagine you are investing in property and renting out homes to hopefully make more money off them in a few years and the market blows up. In Florida houses prices dropped by more than half of what people paid for them, imagine you invested in a few. It was the safest investment to make at the time if you had the money to buy houses. No one knew the mortgage bubble was going to pop but the banks who were playing with borrowed money to make more money.

I have friends who had several houses because when we got out of college it was the thing to do, get an arm mortgage and pay less at the time on your mortgage but the monthly payments doubled or more than doubled when the market went bad. It's not really Brunnell's or any consumers fault. It's just what happened.
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footy_29


Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 11439
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turtle: calm down bud. It's not an easy time in the US, but every bubble collapses eventually. It's why I am a proponent of renting as long as you can. Sorry to hear about the devaluation of your home, but there will be some rebound in time; just have to ride it out if you can. I'm sure we all have problems in our lives at some point. Keep positive, there are far worse things that could happen...thinking of the Rae Carruth (credit to PFT for the reminder) BUT, let's not delve into personal experiences here. If anyone ever wants to chat, just PM me a request for my e-mail and I will happily give it.

For someone like Brunell investing heavily in real-estate, he should have been wary. Look at Nic Cage and all the horrendous movies he has had to do because he tried to make quick cash through real-estate. These guys who invested tens of millions risked their pensions, and all one had to do was look at Nortel and see what happens when you overextend yourself in real-estate.

DCRED: I do not think you really got what I meant.

Arrow We'll use 890k as the figure.
Arrow I'm not sure the average agent fee, but let's say 3%, and I assume that is deducted from your overall salary ($26,700)
Arrow Your tax bracket means you have 35% income tax in 2012 ($311,500)
Arrow I would hope that an NFL player does not have a mortgage, but for someone like M.Williams, maybe he's renting an apartment in Maryland (~20k).
Arrow I'll make an estimate of 30% of salary after taxes used for his pension/investments ($173,550)

Now, we're not including food, cars, business ventures, lawyer fees, and lots of other miscellaneous expenses, ex. dinners with teammates. That could take a good chunk, but I have done enough estimating based on little. So, what is the total outside of the aforementioned? $338,350

When you consider $21k of that, we're talking about 6%. If you make 40k after taxes, that's still $2,400. Try telling someone who has 40k after taxes that $2.4k is not a lot of money.

EDIT: I have Madieu at a lower percentage dedicated to pensions because he had a big contract where he earned ~$18-20MM (before deductions) with the Vikings.


Last edited by footy_29 on Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:06 am; edited 2 times in total
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DCRED


Joined: 07 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Quote:
For guys like Brunnell the economy got them like it's gotten a million Americans. He had a lot of money in real estate and the market collapsed. Could have happened to anyone of us and to one of us in here it has.


BS excuse. With that amount of money houses should be paid in full, as well as vehicles etc.-- THEN make real estate investments afterwards. If only "investments" were made with continuing mortgage payments and car payments and leases---- Then that's just pure Greed and stupidity.
Quote:
Man, you are really uniformed. How old are you? Do you understand investing in property in Florida and how the market totally bottomed out and all the houses lost all their value and they aren't coming back?

I live in Montgomery county and the dc area didn't take that bad of a hit but my house is still worth 150,000 less than what I paid in 06. Now imagine you are investing in property and renting out homes to hopefully make more money off them in a few years and the market blows up. In Florida houses prices dropped by more than half of what people paid for them, imagine you invested in a few. It was the safest investment to make at the time if you had the money to buy houses. No one knew the mortgage bubble was going to pop but the banks who were playing with borrowed money to make more money.

I have friends who had several houses because when we got out of college it was the thing to do, get an arm mortgage and pay less at the time on your mortgage but the monthly payments doubled or more than doubled when the market went bad. It's not really Brunnell's or any consumers fault. It's just what happened.


And you are totally fiscally irresponsible if you think that is the way to buy a house. My friend paid off his first house in 3 years with a $10K down payment. He now owns 5. But paying them off quickly and not living above your means is how you do that. He worked alot of OT, made triple payments at times, because he did not get in over his head. But if his mortgage payments had doubled he would have been able to AFFORD them. That is my point.

He was following the plan of others that I know who have done the same. It is a sound formula, unlike the one your friends employed.

I'm sorry your friends accepted bad deals. What hurt the majority of people that lost their homes was taking out loans to maintain their lifestyle on their "equity" which evaporated when market values fell.

On the other hand, if you take a 30 year mortgage and do NOT pay it off quickly you are setting yourself up for failure because you trusted property values to remain stationary (or rise). And you have to take all of this and your "lifestyle" into account when taking a loan in the first place.

As I mentioned previously- which you failed to catch- the houses should have been PAID FOR which would have made that terrible mortgage irrelevant. He should only have been worried about paying taxes, lifestyle etc at that point- not making payments on houses and cars.

How old are you?
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footy_29


Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 11439
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
How old are you?

DCRED wrote:
How old are you?


Really not constructive guys.

Age has little to do with it, on here it's about your quality of posts and the quality of your arguments. I do not like forums where age is indicated and therefore gives some sense of artificial superiority, because it has nothing to do with anything.

We are talking about Madieu Williams and how 21k impacts him. I contend that even at a 890k salary, the fine is still significant enough to get players to change their habits and approach situations differently so they are not leading with their helmets and making helmet-helmet contact.

I think of Austin Collie, and this is a very important step for the league to keep players with talent on the field.
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DCRED


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

footy_29 wrote:
Turtle: calm down bud. It's not an easy time in the US, but every bubble collapses eventually. It's why I am a proponent of renting as long as you can. Sorry to hear about the devaluation of your home, but there will be some rebound in time; just have to ride it out if you can. I'm sure we all have problems in our lives at some point. Keep positive, there are far worse things that could happen...thinking of the Rae Carruth (credit to PFT for the reminder) BUT, let's not delve into personal experiences here. If anyone ever wants to chat, just PM me a request for my e-mail and I will happily give it.


Yes, footy, good post. I am not responding only because we strayed off topic so far. And thank you for offering to accept PM's. I'm sure your advice will be extremely beneficial.


Last edited by DCRED on Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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DCRED


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="footy_29"]
turtle28 wrote:
How old are you?

DCRED wrote:
How old are you?


Quote:
Really not constructive guys.


So because of that you ignored the whole post? Ok, I'll keep that in mind. But I made a good point even if you ignored it.
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Jeezy Fanatic


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thai come in here and teach everyone about economics, I'm out of town for the weekend and too lazy Wink
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DCRED


Joined: 07 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

footy_29 wrote:

Now, we're not including food, cars, business ventures, lawyer fees, and lots of other miscellaneous expenses, ex. dinners with teammates. That could take a good chunk, but I have done enough estimating based on little. So, what is the total outside of the aforementioned? $338,350

When you consider $21k of that, we're talking about 6%. If you make 40k after taxes, that's still $2,400. Try telling someone who has 40k after taxes that $2.4k is not a lot of money.

EDIT: I have Madieu at a lower percentage dedicated to pensions because he had a big contract where he earned ~$18-20MM (before deductions) with the Vikings.


Yeah 18-20 million (before deductions) already. So 21k hurt him so bad Rolling Eyes
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one is looking for sympathy here. Just a little understanding of how it "could" happen.

I certainly don't feel sorry for Brunnell but I understand what happened and how it happened to a lot of people. Basically, they were lied to
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DCRED wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Quote:
For guys like Brunnell the economy got them like it's gotten a million Americans. He had a lot of money in real estate and the market collapsed. Could have happened to anyone of us and to one of us in here it has.


BS excuse. With that amount of money houses should be paid in full, as well as vehicles etc.-- THEN make real estate investments afterwards. If only "investments" were made with continuing mortgage payments and car payments and leases---- Then that's just pure Greed and stupidity.
Quote:
Man, you are really uniformed. How old are you? Do you understand investing in property in Florida and how the market totally bottomed out and all the houses lost all their value and they aren't coming back?

I live in Montgomery county and the dc area didn't take that bad of a hit but my house is still worth 150,000 less than what I paid in 06. Now imagine you are investing in property and renting out homes to hopefully make more money off them in a few years and the market blows up. In Florida houses prices dropped by more than half of what people paid for them, imagine you invested in a few. It was the safest investment to make at the time if you had the money to buy houses. No one knew the mortgage bubble was going to pop but the banks who were playing with borrowed money to make more money.

I have friends who had several houses because when we got out of college it was the thing to do, get an arm mortgage and pay less at the time on your mortgage but the monthly payments doubled or more than doubled when the market went bad. It's not really Brunnell's or any consumers fault. It's just what happened.


And you are totally fiscally irresponsible if you think that is the way to buy a house. My friend paid off his first house in 3 years with a $10K down payment. He now owns 5. But paying them off quickly and not living above your means is how you do that. He worked alot of OT, made triple payments at times, because he did not get in over his head. But if his mortgage payments had doubled he would have been able to AFFORD them. That is my point.

He was following the plan of others that I know who have done the same. It is a sound formula, unlike the one your friends employed.

I'm sorry your friends accepted bad deals. What hurt the majority of people that lost their homes was taking out loans to maintain their lifestyle on their "equity" which evaporated when market values fell.

On the other hand, if you take a 30 year mortgage and do NOT pay it off quickly you are setting yourself up for failure because you trusted property
values to remain stationary (or rise). And you have to take all of this and your "lifestyle" into account when taking a loan in the first place.

As I mentioned previously- which you failed to catch- the houses should have been PAID FOR which would have made that terrible mortgage irrelevant. He should only have been worried about paying taxes, lifestyle etc at that point- not making payments on houses and cars.

How old are you?
your friend must have one heck of a job to pay off whatever his house was worth within 5 years. I worked two jobs for a while and couldn't and my best friend and I put down 10 K also.

On top of that as I said, Florida is the worst area in the country for the housing collapse. Florida's problem is much worse than most areas. So if your friend didn't buy there, he's in a better position to pay off his houses.
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Last edited by turtle28 on Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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