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Game Day Thread- Week 2: Ravens vs. Eagles
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How many T/Os will Vick have...
3+
28%
 28%  [ 6 ]
2
33%
 33%  [ 7 ]
1
14%
 14%  [ 3 ]
None
23%
 23%  [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 21

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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
The defense nor the team seemed to have any sort of urgency to barry the Eagles in the 2nd half.


?

Wink

Laughing

Was typing from my phone... I have an excuse for poor spelling and grammar under such circumstances. So now! Razz
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
Oh and did I call it or what. Mychal Kendricks went from a 5th round likely to a 3rd round pick in all of my mock drafts because I though eventually someone would take a chance on his athleticism... Then he ran his 40 at the combine and he put himself on the radar. I remember making the comment last year to the affect that the guy looked like a 1st round pick on tape, but the only reason he wasn't getting more pub was because of his height.

... And boy, I really wish we could've hauled him in. I'm not dishappy with any of our picks, but man... I just wish we could've gotten Kendricks. Place him beside Ray and boy...


I was thinking the same thing during the game, but to get Kendricks the Ravens probably wouldn't have Upsahw (trade back) or Osemele/Pierce or Gradkowski (trade) up so I'm not too upset.

I agree that I'm more worried about the defense than the offense. There really isn't one facet of the defense that I have confidence in when you're talking about rushing the passer, stopping the run, and the coverage they use.

The coverage is probably in the best shape but when they're used off the receiver combined with an ineffective pass-rush it's hard for them to stick with their assignments that long. Reed and Pollard are playing like the best safety tandem in the league but they're not affected by the type f coverage the Ravens are using as mush as the corners are. Both Williams and Smith look off (Williams more so than Smith) but like a lot of us us have said that's not a surprise when they're playing loose coverage. Webb can do anything and look good but those two are more scheme dependent.

The run defense looked better this week against McCoy than last week against Green-Ellis although that's kind of expected given the history the Ravens have had against RBs like McCoy. He had some nice runs where he made people miss to get extra yards but I was fairly happy with the defense in that regard. I'm still not confident in it though. McClain is not quick or strong enough to be a big factor inside and Lewis isn't a monster in the middle anymore either. With Ngata, Kemoeatu/Cody, and Jones playing on the DL you would think that stopping the run up the middle wouldn't be a problem but they're not getting penetration and the LBs are too slow to get in the running lanes. That's where I have a problem with the scheme Pees is calling against the run, the ILBs are too far back and they're not physically able to get to the ball and make a play until the RB is past the OL.

There isn't much left to say about the pass-rush. Kruger needs to get back and be productive but outside of that I'm not sure I have a lot of hope if Pees continues rushing 3 or 4 the majority of the time. Kruger might not even be rushing the passer in those situations anyways if he's playing the SAM LB spot. This next draft needs to be focused on the defense and they have to add quality athleticism to the front 7.
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
Oh and did I call it or what. Mychal Kendricks went from a 5th round likely to a 3rd round pick in all of my mock drafts because I though eventually someone would take a chance on his athleticism... Then he ran his 40 at the combine and he put himself on the radar. I remember making the comment last year to the affect that the guy looked like a 1st round pick on tape, but the only reason he wasn't getting more pub was because of his height.

... And boy, I really wish we could've hauled him in. I'm not dishappy with any of our picks, but man... I just wish we could've gotten Kendricks. Place him beside Ray and boy...


I was thinking the same thing during the game, but to get Kendricks the Ravens probably wouldn't have Upsahw (trade back) or Osemele/Pierce or Gradkowski (trade) up so I'm not too upset.

I agree that I'm more worried about the defense than the offense. There really isn't one facet of the defense that I have confidence in when you're talking about rushing the passer, stopping the run, and the coverage they use.
The coverage is probably in the best shape but when they're used off the receiver combined with an ineffective pass-rush it's hard for them to stick with their assignments that long. Reed and Pollard are playing like the best safety tandem in the league but they're not affected by the type f coverage the Ravens are using as mush as the corners are. Both Williams and Smith look off (Williams more so than Smith) but like a lot of us us have said that's not a surprise when they're playing loose coverage. Webb can do anything and look good but those two are more scheme dependent.

The run defense looked better this week against McCoy than last week against Green-Ellis although that's kind of expected given the history the Ravens have had against RBs like McCoy. He had some nice runs where he made people miss to get extra yards but I was fairly happy with the defense in that regard. I'm still not confident in it though. McClain is not quick or strong enough to be a big factor inside and Lewis isn't a monster in the middle anymore either. With Ngata, Kemoeatu/Cody, and Jones playing on the DL you would think that stopping the run up the middle wouldn't be a problem but they're not getting penetration and the LBs are too slow to get in the running lanes. That's where I have a problem with the scheme Pees is calling against the run, the ILBs are too far back and they're not physically able to get to the ball and make a play until the RB is past the OL.

There isn't much left to say about the pass-rush. Kruger needs to get back and be productive but outside of that I'm not sure I have a lot of hope if Pees continues rushing 3 or 4 the majority of the time. Kruger might not even be rushing the passer in those situations anyways if he's playing the SAM LB spot. This next draft needs to be focused on the defense and they have to add quality athleticism to the front 7.


While I agree with the majority of your concerns, I think we are a bit spoiled as Ravens fans. I honestly believe that if we were any other 2012 fan base (other than maybe the Steelers and recent 49'ers) without the defensive history of the Ravens, we would be pimping this team D in NFL Gen to no end as a potential top 5 unit.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably, but I'm not a fan of any defense that can't get to the QB consistently. I think we're most spoiled with what we've seen from the run defense the last... oh say decade and a half. Laughing
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
Probably, but I'm not a fan of any defense that can't get to the QB consistently. I think we're most spoiled with what we've seen from the run defense the last... oh say decade and a half. Laughing


Yeah, I agree.

This unit on paper is a top-5 defense MAYBE, but with the scheme that's being employed, we're lucky to be top-15.
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BlaqOptic wrote:
I'd say he's [Dennis Pitta] the fourth best TE in the division... Cameron > Miller > Gresham > Eiffert = Pitta
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BaltimoreTerp


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if I'd go as far to say that we'd be pimping them out as a Top 5 unit. One decent performance and one decidedly bad performance would be enough to have any fanbase concerned, even if the potential is still there.

And while Pees needs to be doing a better job, I think as usual we're skimping the details on both offense and defense by zeroing in on our coordinators for the brunt of the ire. As far as our defense is concerned, I think to begin with we were all being a little unrealistic not to expect the loss of the reigning DPOY not to have a significant impact on the defense. There's only so many ways a DC can manufacture coverage when your defensive line can't fight through blocks and your linebackers (the senior citizen of the group notwitstanding) lack explosiveness.

And as far as Cam is concerned, he definitely didn't call a good game on Sunday, but we need to recognize also that that 2nd half performance was a complete offensive meltdown, not just on the coaching side. He did in fact try to get Ray Rice going a little bit and he was stuffed pretty much every time late in the game, hence why his YPC went down from about 9 around midgame to 6 when the game ended. In hindsight I wish we had tried to utilize our power running game a little more in those 3rd and short situations, but at the same time, it's easy to see how our garbage short yardage execution could have come into play and then we'd just be bashing Cam for sticking with an ineffective run game. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. At the end of the day, Cam's not out there missing blocks and making it impossible for anything to get going.

I'm not trying to defend Pees and Cameron as much as recognize that their poor coaching was accompanied by abysmal execution on the part of the players.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@BaltimoreTerp: When have we EVER lost a game in the past 2-3 years because we stuck with an ineffective ground game vs. an ineffective passing attack?

Personally, I don't care if Ray Rice is averaging .000001 yards per rush, if it's 3rd and 1 and we've failed 3 times throwing the ball and are currently struggling, I'm giving Ray Rice a chance to make 1 freakin' yard to extend a drive. He's a top-3 back in the NFL for a reason.
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BlaqOptic wrote:
I'd say he's [Dennis Pitta] the fourth best TE in the division... Cameron > Miller > Gresham > Eiffert = Pitta
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BaltimoreTerp


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
@BaltimoreTerp: When have we EVER lost a game in the past 2-3 years because we stuck with an ineffective ground game vs. an ineffective passing attack?

Personally, I don't care if Ray Rice is averaging .000001 yards per rush, if it's 3rd and 1 and we've failed 3 times throwing the ball and are currently struggling, I'm giving Ray Rice a chance to make 1 freakin' yard to extend a drive. He's a top-3 back in the NFL for a reason.
I can think of so many times last year when drives stalled because our short yardage running packages get exploded in the backfield. Hence why I've wondered for so long why we're one of the few teams in this league that seems to lack a quarterback sneak as an option.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My problem with Cameron's play-calling in the 2nd half was that it was exactly like what we saw from him last season and it didn't work then anymore than it works now. He was calling a bunch of vertical/down-field routes with the TE breaking to he outside and Rice coming out of the back-field which is ever going to have much success against a defense constructed like Philadelphia's is. The players weren't playing well either but like I've said so many times I think this is a scheme league and they need to be put in a position to succeed rather than trying to succeed in spite of the position they're in.

I do agree about the OL, pretty much everything starts there and they didn't play well at all in the second half. For Cam's system to work they need to be able to keep the pocket clean for Flacco and that didn't happen. Given the Eagle's pass-rush that's not a huge surprise but it's still disappointing. The main thing we need to see from Cameron is an ability to adjust during the game. Yeah he's going to be blasted for sticking with an ineffective running or passing game but that's just it - he's sticking with something that's ineffective.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
@BaltimoreTerp: When have we EVER lost a game in the past 2-3 years because we stuck with an ineffective ground game vs. an ineffective passing attack?

Personally, I don't care if Ray Rice is averaging .000001 yards per rush, if it's 3rd and 1 and we've failed 3 times throwing the ball and are currently struggling, I'm giving Ray Rice a chance to make 1 freakin' yard to extend a drive. He's a top-3 back in the NFL for a reason.
I can think of so many times last year when drives stalled because our short yardage running packages get exploded in the backfield. Hence why I've wondered for so long why we're one of the few teams in this league that seems to lack a quarterback sneak as an option.


I agree with you, and I think Joe needs the option to either call a run or pass play on 3rd and short and call it based on what the defense is showing.

I just don't understand how we don't even try to use Ray Rice.
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BlaqOptic wrote:
I'd say he's [Dennis Pitta] the fourth best TE in the division... Cameron > Miller > Gresham > Eiffert = Pitta
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dcarey20


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok so I haven't commented on this and I'm sure it's been said but c'mon man with these refs.

The Jacoby Jones PI was absolutely ridiculous. How Asomugha is allowed to throw his arms up and make no attempt to locate the ball is beyond me.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
I don't know if I'd go as far to say that we'd be pimping them out as a Top 5 unit. One decent performance and one decidedly bad performance would be enough to have any fanbase concerned, even if the potential is still there.

And while Pees needs to be doing a better job, I think as usual we're skimping the details on both offense and defense by zeroing in on our coordinators for the brunt of the ire. As far as our defense is concerned, I think to begin with we were all being a little unrealistic not to expect the loss of the reigning DPOY not to have a significant impact on the defense. There's only so many ways a DC can manufacture coverage when your defensive line can't fight through blocks and your linebackers (the senior citizen of the group notwitstanding) lack explosiveness.

And as far as Cam is concerned, he definitely didn't call a good game on Sunday, but we need to recognize also that that 2nd half performance was a complete offensive meltdown, not just on the coaching side. He did in fact try to get Ray Rice going a little bit and he was stuffed pretty much every time late in the game, hence why his YPC went down from about 9 around midgame to 6 when the game ended. In hindsight I wish we had tried to utilize our power running game a little more in those 3rd and short situations, but at the same time, it's easy to see how our garbage short yardage execution could have come into play and then we'd just be bashing Cam for sticking with an ineffective run game. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. At the end of the day, Cam's not out there missing blocks and making it impossible for anything to get going.

I'm not trying to defend Pees and Cameron as much as recognize that their poor coaching was accompanied by abysmal execution on the part of the players.

1. Agreed. Our defense hasn't shown that it's a top 5 unit. Maybe at forcing takeaways, but we haven't been able to stop anyone with any kind of consistency.

2. I do agree with this that Mattison- I mean, Pees can only manufacture so much. I haven't liked that he has to continuously manufacture a blitz for us to get pressure on the QB and he has to account for different offensive coverages all the while... but that said, he's whack. He reminds me of Cam. I just don't know how you can have success rushing the QB in the first half and you're hitting him on every play... to just abandoning the blitz FTM during the second half. It's like he thought that he should get conservative so that other teams won't figure out his blitz package... only we were still fighting for our lives and in the thick of the game. There have been teams with less talent succeed better.

Also like coordinator said, we shouldn't be getting ran on like this. Outside of Redding (who I thought leaving could impact us) leaving, we have all of the major DL pieces that we had then... yet our front 3 is consistently being neutralized by blockers... or worse, pushed off the ball. So how is the interior defense so much worse? I can understand the off-tackle options, etc. being impacted by the loss of Suggs and JJ, but inside? That's scheme. And since we can't stop the run inside nor outside, teams are going to challenge us and get themselves in more cute 3rd and 1, 2, 4 type situations.

3. His efforts in trying to get Rice going were forced. At that point it was obvious that the pass wasn't working from any angle or situation, so after something like two ineffective pass riddled drives in the 2nd half, he THEN decided to run the ball. Had he called a balanced attack to start the 2nd, we probably get at least another 3 points out of that game.

4. It's not a "damned if you do or don't" moment. He's damned in this instance because the ground game started out being very effective that game, great push and great running. It was clear that the Eagles were playing us to shut down the pass and were therefore more susceptible to the run. But by the time we ran the ball, it was one of those, "we're tied so let's run the ball, limit the clock, and give them less time to score" type of running. I would've also liked to have seen Pierce more as well.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
My problem with Cameron's play-calling in the 2nd half was that it was exactly like what we saw from him last season and it didn't work then anymore than it works now. He was calling a bunch of vertical/down-field routes with the TE breaking to he outside and Rice coming out of the back-field which is ever going to have much success against a defense constructed like Philadelphia's is. The players weren't playing well either but like I've said so many times I think this is a scheme league and they need to be put in a position to succeed rather than trying to succeed in spite of the position they're in.

I do agree about the OL, pretty much everything starts there and they didn't play well at all in the second half. For Cam's system to work they need to be able to keep the pocket clean for Flacco and that didn't happen. Given the Eagle's pass-rush that's not a huge surprise but it's still disappointing. The main thing we need to see from Cameron is an ability to adjust during the game. Yeah he's going to be blasted for sticking with an ineffective running or passing game but that's just it - he's sticking with something that's ineffective.


I agree with this. Against Cincy, we saw a good amount of screens, misdirections, even saw what, back to back reverses? Those helped to keep the defense guessing. Against Philly, it seemed we wanted to attack deep again rather than chip away and take a shot deep every now and again. Yes, our WRs could not get off the line very well, but when that's happening, you need to scheme around it, which I don't think we did very well. It seemed to me that the Eagles made good halftime adjustments and we made none.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
coordinator0 wrote:
My problem with Cameron's play-calling in the 2nd half was that it was exactly like what we saw from him last season and it didn't work then anymore than it works now. He was calling a bunch of vertical/down-field routes with the TE breaking to he outside and Rice coming out of the back-field which is ever going to have much success against a defense constructed like Philadelphia's is. The players weren't playing well either but like I've said so many times I think this is a scheme league and they need to be put in a position to succeed rather than trying to succeed in spite of the position they're in.

I do agree about the OL, pretty much everything starts there and they didn't play well at all in the second half. For Cam's system to work they need to be able to keep the pocket clean for Flacco and that didn't happen. Given the Eagle's pass-rush that's not a huge surprise but it's still disappointing. The main thing we need to see from Cameron is an ability to adjust during the game. Yeah he's going to be blasted for sticking with an ineffective running or passing game but that's just it - he's sticking with something that's ineffective.


I agree with this. Against Cincy, we saw a good amount of screens, misdirections, even saw what, back to back reverses? Those helped to keep the defense guessing. Against Philly, it seemed we wanted to attack deep again rather than chip away and take a shot deep every now and again. Yes, our WRs could not get off the line very well, but when that's happening, you need to scheme around it, which I don't think we did very well. It seemed to me that the Eagles made good halftime adjustments and we made none.


We may be the worst team in football at making halftime adjustments; or lackthereof.
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BlaqOptic wrote:
I'd say he's [Dennis Pitta] the fourth best TE in the division... Cameron > Miller > Gresham > Eiffert = Pitta
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
BaltimoreTerp wrote:
I don't know if I'd go as far to say that we'd be pimping them out as a Top 5 unit. One decent performance and one decidedly bad performance would be enough to have any fanbase concerned, even if the potential is still there.

And while Pees needs to be doing a better job, I think as usual we're skimping the details on both offense and defense by zeroing in on our coordinators for the brunt of the ire. As far as our defense is concerned, I think to begin with we were all being a little unrealistic not to expect the loss of the reigning DPOY not to have a significant impact on the defense. There's only so many ways a DC can manufacture coverage when your defensive line can't fight through blocks and your linebackers (the senior citizen of the group notwitstanding) lack explosiveness.

And as far as Cam is concerned, he definitely didn't call a good game on Sunday, but we need to recognize also that that 2nd half performance was a complete offensive meltdown, not just on the coaching side. He did in fact try to get Ray Rice going a little bit and he was stuffed pretty much every time late in the game, hence why his YPC went down from about 9 around midgame to 6 when the game ended. In hindsight I wish we had tried to utilize our power running game a little more in those 3rd and short situations, but at the same time, it's easy to see how our garbage short yardage execution could have come into play and then we'd just be bashing Cam for sticking with an ineffective run game. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. At the end of the day, Cam's not out there missing blocks and making it impossible for anything to get going.

I'm not trying to defend Pees and Cameron as much as recognize that their poor coaching was accompanied by abysmal execution on the part of the players.

1. Agreed. Our defense hasn't shown that it's a top 5 unit. Maybe at forcing takeaways, but we haven't been able to stop anyone with any kind of consistency.


We are tied for 3rd in takeaways and 6th in points per game with 18.5. My point wasn't that we ARE a top-5 defense per se. More that one disappointing game and we're freaking out and already saying how awful this defense is. I think that we are spoiled by a tradition of dominant defenses year-in and year-out that a defense that most teams would be very happy with through two games and we severely underrate our own team. We are not accustomed to watching this team give up ANYTHING, if we were fans of another team I just think that we wouldn't have as ridiculously high of expectations.
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