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OUT COACHED AGAIN
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BteamBomber


Joined: 05 Mar 2008
Posts: 187
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This game is a game about 2 plays (well, 4 plays) that shifted momentum.

-Fake FG goes the Packs way, 7 points instead of 3 points.
-Dropped TD pass by Marshall, 3 points instead of 7.

Add in the free 1st down the refs gave the Pack on the 3rd down "12 men on the field penalty", which led to points, along with the Carimi penalty (which should have been offsetting with Hawks late tackle), and who knows how differently the game could have gone. Sure, on paper the Bears looked like they got roughed up by the Pack. But if you change those first two plays, suddenly it's a 6-0 halftime lead followed by a 13-10 4th quarter Packer lead (unless the Carimi drive led to 3 points). The entire complexity of the game changes then, especiall as Bush was asserting himself very well in the run game.

If Marshall catches that TD, who knows how differently the 2nd half might have gone.
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ak06max


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marinelli was the only coach that had his players ready. The D with a 60% Urlacher and a 60% Tillman held it down. Tice Toub and Lovie need to go back to coaching 101 and watch the San Fran game and see not to rely solely on Cutlers arm, RUN THE BALL. I felt like Martz was calling the plays again.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
We gave Rodgers the ball at the start of the game…then took it straight back off him after 3 plays…Lovie didn’t get outcoached giving him the ball…

Lovie isn’t an offensive coach…he left Tice to run the scheme…which is exactly what he should do…

And how badly Cutler, the receivers and the Oline played again has nothing to do with Lovie’s coaching.
It is clear that the Bears paid no attention to the 49ers game. Once this crap starts it is hard to stop it. Forte's blown block started the slide BUT he should have been running with the ball and not blocking at that point. A play action when not one run has been called? Who is going to bite on that? Almost everyone here said that we could win IF we ran the ball. Smith could not see this?

This is a very bad time for this team to fall apart since I am selling my PSLs after this season so it is going to cost me money. But Smith will be gone after this year so that is something to look forward to.

Giving Rodgers the ball is a horrible mistake. It did us NO good even though we stopped them. We would have gotten the ball on the twenty anyway.


Smith is not the OC...you might not like Smith but you are trying to pin something on him that he had no direct involvement in.
Game plans are worked out by the Coordinators subject to the approval of the Head coach and at the directions of the head coach. In the meetings the overall strategy is laid down and the coordinators work FROM this strategic view which is that of the head coach. If the strategy was "Let's throw the ball and ignore the run until we are behind" I'll concede that it worked to perfection.

However, it took little intelligence to see that the only chance to win this game was to take it to that pass rush before it was whipped into a frenzy. Run the f/ing ball. Keep Rodgers off the field.

I am watching SF run the ball down the Lions throat but chances are this doofus will not do the same.

Where were the other plays designed to negate the pass rush? Screen plays (other than one miserable attempt), draw plays, check-down plays, traps, etc.?

Since the game plans are the product of the head coach ultimately, I will give Smith the credit for the defensive game plan which was excellent. But the blame goes for the other side. A pointless loss.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Badger75 wrote:
Out coached? That fake fg for a td before half time was as old as the hills. The rest of the game looked like they are too tentative, thinking too much. They still look out of synch.
The fake field goal was coaching. The Bears were going for a block and had over-loaded the right side of the dline. Did the Packers see this or was it a case of the Football Gods taking a hand?

If you mean the Bears were too tentative, that is just another indication of the need to initially run the ball. This can settle the line down, and the rest of the offense and prevent the crowd and Defense from getting whipped up.
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GOGRIESE wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
We gave Rodgers the ball at the start of the game…then took it straight back off him after 3 plays…Lovie didn’t get outcoached giving him the ball…

Lovie isn’t an offensive coach…he left Tice to run the scheme…which is exactly what he should do…

And how badly Cutler, the receivers and the Oline played again has nothing to do with Lovie’s coaching.
It is clear that the Bears paid no attention to the 49ers game. Once this crap starts it is hard to stop it. Forte's blown block started the slide BUT he should have been running with the ball and not blocking at that point. A play action when not one run has been called? Who is going to bite on that? Almost everyone here said that we could win IF we ran the ball. Smith could not see this?

This is a very bad time for this team to fall apart since I am selling my PSLs after this season so it is going to cost me money. But Smith will be gone after this year so that is something to look forward to.

Giving Rodgers the ball is a horrible mistake. It did us NO good even though we stopped them. We would have gotten the ball on the twenty anyway.


Smith is not the OC...you might not like Smith but you are trying to pin something on him that he had no direct involvement in.


Agreed...as much as I dont like Lovie this wasnt his fault. The problems on offense are completely on Tice.
No, all problems are ultimately on the head coach. That is why he is the "head" coach. Game plans are worked out UNDER the direction of the "head" coach.

Was it a mystery that the Bears had to run the ball? Or was it obvious. I seriously don't think they even watched the 49ers game.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BteamBomber wrote:
This game is a game about 2 plays (well, 4 plays) that shifted momentum.

-Fake FG goes the Packs way, 7 points instead of 3 points.
-Dropped TD pass by Marshall, 3 points instead of 7.

Add in the free 1st down the refs gave the Pack on the 3rd down "12 men on the field penalty", which led to points, along with the Carimi penalty (which should have been offsetting with Hawks late tackle), and who knows how differently the game could have gone. Sure, on paper the Bears looked like they got roughed up by the Pack. But if you change those first two plays, suddenly it's a 6-0 halftime lead followed by a 13-10 4th quarter Packer lead (unless the Carimi drive led to 3 points). The entire complexity of the game changes then, especiall as Bush was asserting himself very well in the run game.

If Marshall catches that TD, who knows how differently the 2nd half might have gone.
What you said is true ONLY because the defense played superbly. We got nothing from the offense and started out completely on the wrong foot. Giving the ball to Rodgers is a subtle indication that our offense is not to be counted on. Then setting it up to lose by refusing to start out running the ball just compounds it.

Lovie started that game in FEAR. He was more afraid of our offense than GB's. Crying or Very sad Embarassed
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ak06max wrote:
Marinelli was the only coach that had his players ready. The D with a 60% Urlacher and a 60% Tillman held it down. Tice Toub and Lovie need to go back to coaching 101 and watch the San Fran game and see not to rely solely on Cutlers arm, RUN THE BALL. I felt like Martz was calling the plays again.
I am glad someone gets it.
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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
We gave Rodgers the ball at the start of the game…then took it straight back off him after 3 plays…Lovie didn’t get outcoached giving him the ball…

Lovie isn’t an offensive coach…he left Tice to run the scheme…which is exactly what he should do…

And how badly Cutler, the receivers and the Oline played again has nothing to do with Lovie’s coaching.
It is clear that the Bears paid no attention to the 49ers game. Once this crap starts it is hard to stop it. Forte's blown block started the slide BUT he should have been running with the ball and not blocking at that point. A play action when not one run has been called? Who is going to bite on that? Almost everyone here said that we could win IF we ran the ball. Smith could not see this?

This is a very bad time for this team to fall apart since I am selling my PSLs after this season so it is going to cost me money. But Smith will be gone after this year so that is something to look forward to.

Giving Rodgers the ball is a horrible mistake. It did us NO good even though we stopped them. We would have gotten the ball on the twenty anyway.


Smith is not the OC...you might not like Smith but you are trying to pin something on him that he had no direct involvement in.
Game plans are worked out by the Coordinators subject to the approval of the Head coach and at the directions of the head coach.


Approval?…yes…direction?…no…it would make zero sense for Lovie Smith to decide which direction an offensive game plan should go in as he has no expertise or experience on that side of the ball…Lovie has to trust that Tice knows what he is doing and if he has that trust of course he is going to sign off on it…it’s the same for any HC around the league…I seriously doubt Mike McCarthy has ever tried to tell Dom Capers what the defensive game plan should be.
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Timothy67


Joined: 22 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GOGRIESE wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
We gave Rodgers the ball at the start of the game…then took it straight back off him after 3 plays…Lovie didn’t get outcoached giving him the ball…

Lovie isn’t an offensive coach…he left Tice to run the scheme…which is exactly what he should do…

And how badly Cutler, the receivers and the Oline played again has nothing to do with Lovie’s coaching.
It is clear that the Bears paid no attention to the 49ers game. Once this crap starts it is hard to stop it. Forte's blown block started the slide BUT he should have been running with the ball and not blocking at that point. A play action when not one run has been called? Who is going to bite on that? Almost everyone here said that we could win IF we ran the ball. Smith could not see this?

This is a very bad time for this team to fall apart since I am selling my PSLs after this season so it is going to cost me money. But Smith will be gone after this year so that is something to look forward to.

Giving Rodgers the ball is a horrible mistake. It did us NO good even though we stopped them. We would have gotten the ball on the twenty anyway.


Smith is not the OC...you might not like Smith but you are trying to pin something on him that he had no direct involvement in.


Agreed...as much as I dont like Lovie this wasnt his fault. The problems on offense are completely on Tice.


So Lovie does nothing with the offense? At no point prepping for the game did he talk and plan strategy with Tice? Lovie must just sit in a deprevation tank all week with no influence over the team so that when the Bears suck in a game all the apologists can point at this or that Coordinator and place all the blame there.
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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Timothy67"]
GOGRIESE wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
We gave Rodgers the ball at the start of the game…then took it straight back off him after 3 plays…Lovie didn’t get outcoached giving him the ball…

Lovie isn’t an offensive coach…he left Tice to run the scheme…which is exactly what he should do…

And how badly Cutler, the receivers and the Oline played again has nothing to do with Lovie’s coaching.
It is clear that the Bears paid no attention to the 49ers game. Once this crap starts it is hard to stop it. Forte's blown block started the slide BUT he should have been running with the ball and not blocking at that point. A play action when not one run has been called? Who is going to bite on that? Almost everyone here said that we could win IF we ran the ball. Smith could not see this?

This is a very bad time for this team to fall apart since I am selling my PSLs after this season so it is going to cost me money. But Smith will be gone after this year so that is something to look forward to.

Giving Rodgers the ball is a horrible mistake. It did us NO good even though we stopped them. We would have gotten the ball on the twenty anyway.


Smith is not the OC...you might not like Smith but you are trying to pin something on him that he had no direct involvement in.


Agreed...as much as I dont like Lovie this wasnt his fault. The problems on offense are completely on Tice.


So Lovie does nothing with the offense? At no point prepping for the game did he talk and plan strategy with Tice? Lovie must just sit in a deprevation tank all week with no influence over the team so that when the Bears suck in a game all the apologists can point at this or that Coordinator and place all the blame there.[/quote

Why would it make any sense for a defensive minded HC to decide what the offence is going to do? Or an offensive minded HC to decide what the defence is going to do?
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
We gave Rodgers the ball at the start of the game…then took it straight back off him after 3 plays…Lovie didn’t get outcoached giving him the ball…

Lovie isn’t an offensive coach…he left Tice to run the scheme…which is exactly what he should do…

And how badly Cutler, the receivers and the Oline played again has nothing to do with Lovie’s coaching.
It is clear that the Bears paid no attention to the 49ers game. Once this crap starts it is hard to stop it. Forte's blown block started the slide BUT he should have been running with the ball and not blocking at that point. A play action when not one run has been called? Who is going to bite on that? Almost everyone here said that we could win IF we ran the ball. Smith could not see this?

This is a very bad time for this team to fall apart since I am selling my PSLs after this season so it is going to cost me money. But Smith will be gone after this year so that is something to look forward to.

Giving Rodgers the ball is a horrible mistake. It did us NO good even though we stopped them. We would have gotten the ball on the twenty anyway.


Smith is not the OC...you might not like Smith but you are trying to pin something on him that he had no direct involvement in.
Game plans are worked out by the Coordinators subject to the approval of the Head coach and at the directions of the head coach.


Approval?…yes…direction?…no…it would make zero sense for Lovie Smith to decide which direction an offensive game plan should go in as he has no expertise or experience on that side of the ball…Lovie has to trust that Tice knows what he is doing and if he has that trust of course he is going to sign off on it…it’s the same for any HC around the league…I seriously doubt Mike McCarthy has ever tried to tell Dom Capers what the defensive game plan should be.
When a head coach sees a game plan which is heavy on the pass and anyone with half a brain knows it should be heavy on the run he has to change it. OCs do not operate in a vacuum and get to do anything they want. How many times was Smith credited with making Martz run the ball more last year?

This comes down to the head coach, otherwise why is he there? This loss is on Smith's head.

Ditka would never allow such a game plan to be implemented.
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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
We gave Rodgers the ball at the start of the game…then took it straight back off him after 3 plays…Lovie didn’t get outcoached giving him the ball…

Lovie isn’t an offensive coach…he left Tice to run the scheme…which is exactly what he should do…

And how badly Cutler, the receivers and the Oline played again has nothing to do with Lovie’s coaching.
It is clear that the Bears paid no attention to the 49ers game. Once this crap starts it is hard to stop it. Forte's blown block started the slide BUT he should have been running with the ball and not blocking at that point. A play action when not one run has been called? Who is going to bite on that? Almost everyone here said that we could win IF we ran the ball. Smith could not see this?

This is a very bad time for this team to fall apart since I am selling my PSLs after this season so it is going to cost me money. But Smith will be gone after this year so that is something to look forward to.

Giving Rodgers the ball is a horrible mistake. It did us NO good even though we stopped them. We would have gotten the ball on the twenty anyway.


Smith is not the OC...you might not like Smith but you are trying to pin something on him that he had no direct involvement in.
Game plans are worked out by the Coordinators subject to the approval of the Head coach and at the directions of the head coach.


Approval?…yes…direction?…no…it would make zero sense for Lovie Smith to decide which direction an offensive game plan should go in as he has no expertise or experience on that side of the ball…Lovie has to trust that Tice knows what he is doing and if he has that trust of course he is going to sign off on it…it’s the same for any HC around the league…I seriously doubt Mike McCarthy has ever tried to tell Dom Capers what the defensive game plan should be.
When a head coach sees a game plan which is heavy on the pass and anyone with half a brain knows it should be heavy on the run he has to change it. OCs do not operate in a vacuum and get to do anything they want. How many times was Smith credited with making Martz run the ball more last year?

This comes down to the head coach, otherwise why is he there? This loss is on Smith's head.

Ditka would never allow such a game plan to be implemented.


Jay dropped back to pass 28 times…we ran the ball 22 times…that is balance in todays NFL.
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TexasBearsFan


Joined: 02 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
We gave Rodgers the ball at the start of the game…then took it straight back off him after 3 plays…Lovie didn’t get outcoached giving him the ball…

Lovie isn’t an offensive coach…he left Tice to run the scheme…which is exactly what he should do…

And how badly Cutler, the receivers and the Oline played again has nothing to do with Lovie’s coaching.
It is clear that the Bears paid no attention to the 49ers game. Once this crap starts it is hard to stop it. Forte's blown block started the slide BUT he should have been running with the ball and not blocking at that point. A play action when not one run has been called? Who is going to bite on that? Almost everyone here said that we could win IF we ran the ball. Smith could not see this?

This is a very bad time for this team to fall apart since I am selling my PSLs after this season so it is going to cost me money. But Smith will be gone after this year so that is something to look forward to.

Giving Rodgers the ball is a horrible mistake. It did us NO good even though we stopped them. We would have gotten the ball on the twenty anyway.


Smith is not the OC...you might not like Smith but you are trying to pin something on him that he had no direct involvement in.
Game plans are worked out by the Coordinators subject to the approval of the Head coach and at the directions of the head coach.


Approval?…yes…direction?…no…it would make zero sense for Lovie Smith to decide which direction an offensive game plan should go in as he has no expertise or experience on that side of the ball…Lovie has to trust that Tice knows what he is doing and if he has that trust of course he is going to sign off on it…it’s the same for any HC around the league…I seriously doubt Mike McCarthy has ever tried to tell Dom Capers what the defensive game plan should be.
When a head coach sees a game plan which is heavy on the pass and anyone with half a brain knows it should be heavy on the run he has to change it. OCs do not operate in a vacuum and get to do anything they want. How many times was Smith credited with making Martz run the ball more last year?

This comes down to the head coach, otherwise why is he there? This loss is on Smith's head.

Ditka would never allow such a game plan to be implemented.



You know, you're absolutely right. Ditka would never have implemented that plan. Ditka would have traded all our draft picks so we could get Andrew Luck last draft.



This is all so very stupid. The Bears had one game and all of sudden the world is collapsing. Exactly like it did last season and the season before that. Oh I remember the "no way will we win more than 5 this year! We're the worse [sic] team in football!" threads. And the "We're so crap, Lovie's so terrible, Martz is a dummy and JAY SUCKS!" threads. Then we went to the NFC championship game and went 7-3 before half our offense was injured. Yeah, it sucked to watch the Packers slap us around last Thursday but oh my god, it only counted for one loss.

Why was no one AT ALL talking about how bad a coach Lovie and Tice were after we housed Indy to open the season? Oh yeah, because WE WON. But after we lose, all of sudden it's back to the same old "Lovie is crap" talk we seem to get after every rough patch every year.

It's way, WAY too early in the year for us to be getting so down in the dumps. Yeah, we have some problems to fix. But what, over the past few seasons, has Lovie done, other than win consistently? And win, may I add, with what almost everyone would agree was a grossly un-talented offense, outside of Jay and Forte.
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CadeMcGrossman


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fault lies with Tice.

1. Wasn't able to outscheme the Packer D with any kind of protection schemes to give Cutler more time to throw. They got out-witted/out-hustled the whole game.

2. Did seem to come in with the right game plan. Not enough running to set up the pass. Packers had a clear weakness in the running game and the Bears (At the time) had two good, healthy backs. Should have run it a majority of the time and then give them the pass when they were sleeping.

3. He put together this offensive line. Webb is his pet project. Webb is clearly not ready for prime time. His ceiling is 'average' his floor is 'deplorable'.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
We gave Rodgers the ball at the start of the game…then took it straight back off him after 3 plays…Lovie didn’t get outcoached giving him the ball…

Lovie isn’t an offensive coach…he left Tice to run the scheme…which is exactly what he should do…

And how badly Cutler, the receivers and the Oline played again has nothing to do with Lovie’s coaching.
It is clear that the Bears paid no attention to the 49ers game. Once this crap starts it is hard to stop it. Forte's blown block started the slide BUT he should have been running with the ball and not blocking at that point. A play action when not one run has been called? Who is going to bite on that? Almost everyone here said that we could win IF we ran the ball. Smith could not see this?

This is a very bad time for this team to fall apart since I am selling my PSLs after this season so it is going to cost me money. But Smith will be gone after this year so that is something to look forward to.

Giving Rodgers the ball is a horrible mistake. It did us NO good even though we stopped them. We would have gotten the ball on the twenty anyway.


Smith is not the OC...you might not like Smith but you are trying to pin something on him that he had no direct involvement in.
Game plans are worked out by the Coordinators subject to the approval of the Head coach and at the directions of the head coach.


Approval?…yes…direction?…no…it would make zero sense for Lovie Smith to decide which direction an offensive game plan should go in as he has no expertise or experience on that side of the ball…Lovie has to trust that Tice knows what he is doing and if he has that trust of course he is going to sign off on it…it’s the same for any HC around the league…I seriously doubt Mike McCarthy has ever tried to tell Dom Capers what the defensive game plan should be.
When a head coach sees a game plan which is heavy on the pass and anyone with half a brain knows it should be heavy on the run he has to change it. OCs do not operate in a vacuum and get to do anything they want. How many times was Smith credited with making Martz run the ball more last year?

This comes down to the head coach, otherwise why is he there? This loss is on Smith's head.

Ditka would never allow such a game plan to be implemented.


Jay dropped back to pass 28 times…we ran the ball 22 times…that is balance in todays NFL.
We needed to start out running the ball. Twenty two times is not enough to beat GB. That is not going to keep Rodgers off the field or allow us to have time of possession. We never set up the pass by running the ball so play actions didn't work. Lovie knows what has to be done and has stated that we would "get off the bus running". This puts it even more firmly on his head.
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