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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 33504
Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
The biggest Problem is Palmer. Please..... spare me. If you honestly think Palmer is the biggest problem, you're misguided. Depth and a lack of game changing talent is the biggest problem. A serviceable vet QB is not the problem.


Don't even bother. Look at some of these:

Quote:
McFadden our most reliable weapon rushed for 32 yards on 15 carries, its because he is not fit for a zone blocking scheme, not for his lack of cut back ability or speed, but he lacks vision. He needs a hole to hit with authority, we don't want him to look where he needs to cut.
That's how he played all of last year. There were no holes last game and he was always sent on stretches and tosses.


Quote:
McFadden on a momentum gaining drive loses 10 yards 10???? on a hand-off.
Forgot to mention DMC got all of that momentum turning checkdowns into gains and had nowhere to run as the D set the edge and penetrated.

Quote:
Condo is not practicing and we signed a long snapper cut by San Diego.
We signed a FA who was available with experience at LS in order to not have Goethal long snap for us.....and this is somehow a bad thing?
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Burgesskills


Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 1114
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you guys all new to the world?

Aren't you the same guys who would moan about D-Mac during the zone blocking schemes??

Yes Palmer is our biggest problem, because he is the field general.

I don't think Denver is much more talented than the Raiders, they are an older Tim, but Manning will lead them to the division title, just like he did in Indy for years. Palmer is long at the tooth and unreliable.

I didn't say this team wasn't talented, never said it once. I said our players aren't very bright and that's the truth.

If this team wins more than 8 games, which it won't allow you guys to change my handle and make post whatever you want as far as a sig.

Yeah no kidding the Chargers were covering the deep ball on 3rd and 3, but still it was stupid all around.

What did I say that's not true? McFadden doesn't have great vision. He was good at Arkansas as run outside back or on stretch plays, but in the NFL defenders are just as fast. He needs space created for him by his line and we aren't running that kind of scheme we are running the zone blocking scheme which relies on the RB looking for openings and cutting in to the lanes, if D-Mac stays healthy he will have a good year overall, but not the type of year Arian Foster will have in the same offense.

You guys can get made and hyped all you want, at the end of the year this team will be exactly what I stated.
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Burgesskills


Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 1114
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh what does McFadden taking check downs underneath and turning them in to chunks of yards do with him running backwards and losing ten yards?

Where did all those yards get us? No where San Diego allowed those underneath passes because at the end of the day it didn't hurt them.

I'd be more than willing to see our Defense let check downs to Bush all day Sunday as long as doesn't break one long and we hold him down in the run game so it doesn't open the deep pass game up. Miami may be in worst shape than us when it comes to WR's so we should be okay keeping the pass game in check.
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 14292
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:

Not a rationale thought there. On McFadden, did you stop to think once that maybe SD's defense played him well. No WR threat, they were able to key on him knowing he's the Raiders 1 game changing player.

I also find it Hi-larious the '3rd down, throw the ball past the marker crowd'. Do you ever stop to think they are covering those deeper routes?? Do you stop and think about that at all? Countless teams each week on 3rd and short will use an underneath route and hope the player breaks a tackle. You people act like it's just the Raiders. If the player makes the play, breaks a tackle, etc. it's a non issue. The Packers will run smoke screens on third and a yard for F sake. Watch Houston play. 3rd and mid, they are looking for a crossing pattern and some YAC.

This forum is making my blood boil. Just non-sense after non-sense like we've never seen a game of football before. It's literally mind-numbing.

The sad part, when the Raiders win, it will be a 180 and all the talk will be back on PLAYOFFS and how super duper talented the Raiders are.


According to Raiders players, the Chargers were taking away the deep field. According to my eyes, they were more than willing to let us complete short throws all game long, probably because they were convinced we couldn't sustain a long drive without commiting costly mistakes along the way. And it turns out they were totally right about that.

Fact: We failed to move the chains multiple times on 3rd and short because we threw it short of the first down maker. I don't even care why we did it, it's a failure either way.

What's making my blood boil is how everything has to be so black or white. People are criticizing some of the things we've seen in this game and all you've been doing lately is trying to discredit the posters one way or another. Correct me if i'm wrong but this performance was far from perfect and there are certainly things to criticize. Aren't we allowed to do that on this forum anymore?
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Burgesskills


Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 1114
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Palooka you always make me laugh, when the best things you could say about your starting QB is he's a veteran and he's serviceable, you know you're in trouble.

If I had to guess you're older than most of us. A veteran serviceable QB is not enough to win games in this NFL. He isn't very accurate on the long ball, he forces throws, and unlike others who find ways to improvise and make plays he isn't too good at that either. Once the pocket collapses he has a 90 percent chance to get sacked.

Its the same thing every year. You guys build yourselves up that we have a shot to win the division. Even this year...its funny. You guys find excuses and then as the season progresses and it gets worse you start finding reasons to be optimistic, just be realistic.
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NickButera


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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
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Location: Nevada
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burgesskills wrote:
Palooka you always make me laugh, when the best things you could say about your starting QB is he's a veteran and he's serviceable, you know you're in trouble.

If I had to guess you're older than most of us. A veteran serviceable QB is not enough to win games in this NFL. He isn't very accurate on the long ball, he forces throws, and unlike others who find ways to improvise and make plays he isn't too good at that either. Once the pocket collapses he has a 90 percent chance to get sacked.

Its the same thing every year. You guys build yourselves up that we have a shot to win the division. Even this year...its funny. You guys find excuses and then as the season progresses and it gets worse you start finding reasons to be optimistic, just be realistic.


One can be optimistic and realistic at the same time. Many think that in order to be realistic you must observe the same predictions that I believe. That's simply not the case. You can think that a 6 win Raider prediction is realistic, and I can think that an 9 win season is realistic. As long as we have good reasoning we can both be 'realistic'.

Finding reasons to be optimistic, or pessimistic.... we're all just digging for factoids to help push our own predictions. I haven't found anyone here thinking we're a 12+ win team. And most things I've read have certainly been reasonable.

P.S- A veteran serviceable QB is enough to win games in this league. There are multiple teams out there proving that right now. It's just not the consistent and best way to do it IMO.
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Burgesskills


Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 1114
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of you are smart, rational fans of this team others lack the smarts and football knowledge.

Do you guys really think Reggie McKenzie thought by coming in and weeding some of the dead weight out

Drafting his first class without a 1st and then without a 2nd, and being up against the cap.

Knowing that we would lack depth thought Dennis Allen, the youngest coach in the NFL in his first year ever and a brand new offense for the team to learn, oh and a new defense with all new schemes and sets. Getting away from the man to coverage.

Rolando McClain our middle LB in the middle of legal issues and all the injuries piled up.....you guys really think we have a chance to make the playoffs???? That's a joke it shows how little you guys know, even if you think this I know McKenzie never thought this.

We are building towards the future.

If Dennis Allen could come in his first year and turn this team into a division winner or even a playoff team, he would win coach of the year, no doubt....
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 8908
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Dennis Allen said there's a "strong possibility" that WR Jacoby Ford will be placed on season-ending injured reserve"

Free's up a roster spot. If Condo cant go this week we don't have to release anyone. Have room for another player after he comes back.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22613
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burgesskills wrote:
Are you guys all new to the world?

Aren't you the same guys who would moan about D-Mac during the zone blocking schemes??

Yes Palmer is our biggest problem, because he is the field general.

I don't think Denver is much more talented than the Raiders, they are an older Tim, but Manning will lead them to the division title, just like he did in Indy for years. Palmer is long at the tooth and unreliable.

I didn't say this team wasn't talented, never said it once. I said our players aren't very bright and that's the truth.

If this team wins more than 8 games, which it won't allow you guys to change my handle and make post whatever you want as far as a sig.

Yeah no kidding the Chargers were covering the deep ball on 3rd and 3, but still it was stupid all around.

What did I say that's not true? McFadden doesn't have great vision. He was good at Arkansas as run outside back or on stretch plays, but in the NFL defenders are just as fast. He needs space created for him by his line and we aren't running that kind of scheme we are running the zone blocking scheme which relies on the RB looking for openings and cutting in to the lanes, if D-Mac stays healthy he will have a good year overall, but not the type of year Arian Foster will have in the same offense.

You guys can get made and hyped all you want, at the end of the year this team will be exactly what I stated.


Denver has 2 premier pass rushers on their defense and 2 cover CBs. They have more game changing talent on that side of the ball.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burgesskills wrote:
Palooka you always make me laugh, when the best things you could say about your starting QB is he's a veteran and he's serviceable, you know you're in trouble.


I can say plenty good about Palmer. He's smart, leads well and is a good teammate. And what is the alternative? Oh right, there isn't one. I'd rather have Palmer than 15 of the other starters in the NFL.

Burgesskills wrote:
If I had to guess you're older than most of us. A veteran serviceable QB is not enough to win games in this NFL. He isn't very accurate on the long ball, he forces throws, and unlike others who find ways to improvise and make plays he isn't too good at that either. Once the pocket collapses he has a 90 percent chance to get sacked.


He look pretty accurate to me on the deep ball. Miles better than Campbell. He's not a fleet footed QB, but he understands the pocket and gets the ball out. He gambles (or used to until Monday Night), but I'll take some of that over a check down hero.

Burgesskills wrote:
Its the same thing every year. You guys build yourselves up that we have a shot to win the division. Even this year...its funny. You guys find excuses and then as the season progresses and it gets worse you start finding reasons to be optimistic, just be realistic.


I am being realistic. This is a 6-7 win team. Been saying that all offseason.

To the point of QB. You make it sound like there is a franchise guy out there right now who can come in an make a difference. There isn't.

Palmer was 'the greatest trade in football' according to Hue. The current staff didn't make that trade, but they are the ones taking the reins of it.

Palmer is a stop-gap and he can lead the team w/ his arm. Who would you suggest play QB for the Raiders that would yield a better result?
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jfitz812


Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 761
Location: Indiana
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burgesskills wrote:
Some of you are smart, rational fans of this team others lack the smarts and football knowledge.

Do you guys really think Reggie McKenzie thought by coming in and weeding some of the dead weight out

Drafting his first class without a 1st and then without a 2nd, and being up against the cap.

Knowing that we would lack depth thought Dennis Allen, the youngest coach in the NFL in his first year ever and a brand new offense for the team to learn, oh and a new defense with all new schemes and sets. Getting away from the man to coverage.

Rolando McClain our middle LB in the middle of legal issues and all the injuries piled up.....you guys really think we have a chance to make the playoffs???? That's a joke it shows how little you guys know, even if you think this I know McKenzie never thought this.

We are building towards the future.

If Dennis Allen could come in his first year and turn this team into a division winner or even a playoff team, he would win coach of the year, no doubt....


Not sure if you're an A's fan or if you follow Major League Baseball at all, but that is a straight up ballpark description of the A's coming into the season... Only your description of the Raiders makes what people said about the A's seem like we're a lock to win it all. It was that bad for the A's.

Experts had the A's pre-ranked dead last in the American League and most thought they'd lose 100+ games this year. Even Billy Beane admitted that although talented, he was building for the future. They traded/lost arguably their 3 best pitchers and 3 best hitters from the previous season. And have you checked the standings 6 months later? The A's lead the wild card and have the second best record in the entire AL. On the lowest payroll in the AL... Do you really believe that the Raiders have to overcome greater odds than that? I hope not.

Reggie McKenzie knows there's talent on this team. Every Raiders fan should know that. What's so crazy to think that it could all come together to just win more games than they lose? That may be all it takes to make the playoffs as a wild card team. Based on last year (since that is mainly what we're basing our predictions on for this season), our healthy offense with McFadden and Palmer would be enough to contend for the division given that the defense improves a little under the new scheme (what could be worse than the old one?). Please enlighten me as to what's so hard to grasp about winning 9 games this year?
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uncraiders20


Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 391
Location: Rochester NY
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
"Dennis Allen said there's a "strong possibility" that WR Jacoby Ford will be placed on season-ending injured reserve"

Free's up a roster spot. If Condo cant go this week we don't have to release anyone. Have room for another player after he comes back.


remember when we traded louis murphy for pretty much nothing, and some of us said we probably should have hung onto him just incase of injuries so we don't have a repeat performance of last year where we run out of capable wrs...
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Burgesskills wrote:
Palooka you always make me laugh, when the best things you could say about your starting QB is he's a veteran and he's serviceable, you know you're in trouble.


I can say plenty good about Palmer. He's smart, leads well and is a good teammate. And what is the alternative? Oh right, there isn't one. I'd rather have Palmer than 15 of the other starters in the NFL.



Stafford
Ryan
Brees
Rivers
Manning X2
Romo
Brady
Flacco
shaubb
Rodgers
Big Ben
Cam Newton
Vick
RG3

Thats 15 i would rather have than Palmer right there. And Jay Cutler and Andrew Luck can also be argue of who I would want over Palmer at this point.
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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5365
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: Jacoby Ford scheduled for foot surgery Reply with quote

Juron Criner wrote:

lilcrazycat1 wrote:

let streater keep playing and get plax for the red zone


Dont worry- I got this

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I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that
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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5365
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

uncraiders20 wrote:

we have been a "rebuilding" team for the past 10 years. frustration grows because the raiders have such a loyal fan base and it takes a toll after 10 years of supposed rebuilding and getting back to the glory days.


I hear ya, but for once "rebuilding" actually means rebuilding. Under Al Davis we never made any real progress. Sure, Cable brought us to 8-8, but then Al fired him, Hue brought us to 8-8, then he was fired... I understand the frustration, but we have a no-BS GM who is moving this team in the right direction. No longer are we unloading a ton of money on FA reaches, no more taking projects early in the draft, etc. It sucks to think that we are still rebuilding, but we are finally actually in the process of improving our team.
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La_Vader wrote:
I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that
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