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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 5815
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
They are basically a glorified expansion team at this stage.


I never expected much from this team but the concern i have is the number of old starters we have. What exactly are we trying to accomplish this season? I don't see what we're building with so many stopgap players on the roster.


Exactly, the Raiders have an identity crisis. Right now the FO is middling. Good teams KNOW what they are. Fans aren't as dumb as they pretend to be. McKenzie should have just said "This is a .500 club but the books are screwed. For the long-term success of the club we must clean up the books."

IF this team looks non-competitive, then rip off the bandaide and get it over with. Keep in mind folks, McKenzie is a Ted Thompson disciple, TT almost got whacked before he turned the team around and I said when he got hired that people would be calling for Reggie's head just before he turned the team around.
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teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 7479
Location: CA
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
They are basically a glorified expansion team at this stage.


I never expected much from this team but the concern i have is the number of old starters we have. What exactly are we trying to accomplish this season? I don't see what we're building with so many stopgap players on the roster.


Exactly, the Raiders have an identity crisis. Right now the FO is middling. Good teams KNOW what they are. Fans aren't as dumb as they pretend to be. McKenzie should have just said "This is a .500 club but the books are screwed. For the long-term success of the club we must clean up the books."

IF this team looks non-competitive, then rip off the bandaide and get it over with. Keep in mind folks, McKenzie is a Ted Thompson disciple, TT almost got whacked before he turned the team around and I said when he got hired that people would be calling for Reggie's head just before he turned the team around.


The Raiders aren't a .500 team though. They've proven to be with one of the worst defenses in the league over the past 2 seasons. Reggie McKenzie rightfully thinks that if the defense could improve, that the Raiders have a chance at winning the West. I'm sure he didn't hire Greg Knapp thinking he was going to doom the Raiders strengths from a season ago.
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 5345
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
Raidin wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
They are basically a glorified expansion team at this stage.


I never expected much from this team but the concern i have is the number of old starters we have. What exactly are we trying to accomplish this season? I don't see what we're building with so many stopgap players on the roster.



I'm sure Allen wants to win games to keep his job which is why he wouldn't want to completely rip up the roster. If we only get 3 or 4 wins this season he'd be under huge pressure. Not to mention that if we want to keep our good young players we need to show them that this team is capable of winning and still has a desire to compete.


It wasn't Allen's call to make. It's McKenzie's job to bring in or get rid of players. If he had decided to go with a young inexperienced team, he obviously shouldn't have been asking for immediate results from Allen. Just set up a goal and a time line and stick to it unless he realizes Allen isn't made for the job along the way.
At some point, we'll have to replace the aging guys with inexperienced players anyway and it'll still put Allen at risk.




Reggie isn't stupid. Even if he blows it up an we win 4 games there would be massive pressure on him to fire Allen even if he didn't want to. It would make his and Allen job next off-season far more difficult. It would be crazy for a first year GM to put that kind of pressure on himself and his first year HC. Allen is Reggies guy, he fails and looks bad on Reggie. He'll give him the best chance to suceed and that is by us winning enough games this year to secure his job for next year.
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^Where would that pressure come from?
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CrashMan510


Joined: 14 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have a new Chaz Schilens
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
^^Where would that pressure come from?




Fans and media. Potentially Mark Davis as well.
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He has a lisfranc injury, same injury as McFadden last year.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
^^Where would that pressure come from?




Fans and media. Potentially Mark Davis as well.


if the d plays well and the off doesnt. DA and the DC will stay but people will want a new OC.
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green24 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
This is football, not pussology 101
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
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Location: Dublin
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Raidin wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
^^Where would that pressure come from?




Fans and media. Potentially Mark Davis as well.


if the d plays well and the off doesnt. DA and the DC will stay but people will want a new OC.



If they win a max of 4 games I'm really not sure fans would be happy with just the OC's head.
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uncraiders20


Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 391
Location: Rochester NY
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

why are people saying this team is like a franchise team or rebuilding? pretty sure our offense looked really good at times last year, barring injuries. essentially most of the starting offense came back, so theoretically speaking, our offense should not have been much of a drop off from last year. that wasn't evident game 1

on defense, our d-line came back, actually improved with some players. wheeler came in, mcclain looked improved on monday night, wheeler had his moments and our rookie looked really good for being a rookie. and supposedly we got new corners that were supposed to be an upgrade for us. so taking all this into place, there was no reason this team should not be atleast as good as last years team. only reason this team should not be successful this year is coaching, playcalling and injuries.
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Burgesskills


Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 1114
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You unrealistic fans are nuts. Reggie McKenzie is not worried about pressure. Mark Davis is not his father, he hired a GM to control the team. Everyone knows they are rebuilding and they had no draft picks this year, no cap space, and very little depth.

It is going to take time, ideally yes they want to win this year, but what hampered us for years was the lack of continuity, we could 2-14 this year and guaranteed no way Dennis Allen gets fired.

This team will finish no better than 8-8 and we should hope for 6-10. It will be disappointing, but its realistic. We have no depth. We signed Hagan on Thursday and he plays a major role on Monday.

We lose Bartell, Ford, Jones missed practice today, McClain missed practice. We don't have Curry, Moore did not practice all off-season. Criner is hampered. Brandon Myers is our TE.

The biggest problem is Palmer. He has no fire or sense of urgency. 2:18 left in the first half and we're driving instead of getting them to the line like Manning would and getting a play off before the 2 minute warning, he lets it tick down. Then for the final 2 minutes we're rushed and burning through our time outs.

Our O-line is not good enough for the zone blocking scheme. Cooper is old, Barnes is a fat lazy slob who just wants his money. Wiz is coming off injury.

If we lose to Miami this week, we are in major trouble and if we beat them like we should please don't start with hyping this team as a play-off contender. There will be no playoffs.

McFadden our most reliable weapon rushed for 32 yards on 15 carries, its because he is not fit for a zone blocking scheme, not for his lack of cut back ability or speed, but he lacks vision. He needs a hole to hit with authority, we don't want him to look where he needs to cut.

Condo is not practicing and we signed a long snapper cut by San Diego.

We need this team to be more disciplined, count the mistakes that killed us (not counting the disaster special teams after Condo went down):

Tommy Kelly twice jumps offside and he is a veteran giving them a first down.

Pivotal third and longs and we give huge pass plays.

Jones bobbling the balls because you Jones apologists want to excuse because Reece pitched it too high, jump on the ball kid don't run 25 yards backwards trying to create something, its the NFL not pee-wee football anymore.

McFadden on a momentum gaining drive loses 10 yards 10???? on a hand-off.

Third and 3 and Palmer and Myers combine on a route a yard short of the marker, why run the route and why pass that ball. Then the next play 4th and short 12 men in the huddle. How in the hell does Norv Turner know that before our own team. Our dweeb players and coaches standing there, while Turner is telling the zebras to throw the flag.

The teams that won this week didn't make repeatable bone headed moves.

I have loved the Raiders since I was 9 and like we're headed it for the future and will be realistic about this season and hope to be pleasantly surprised by a ten win season and playoffs, but realize there is a better chance I may get signed to be the new long snapper.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 14837
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burgesskills wrote:
You unrealistic fans are nuts. Reggie McKenzie is not worried about pressure. Mark Davis is not his father, he hired a GM to control the team. Everyone knows they are rebuilding and they had no draft picks this year, no cap space, and very little depth.

It is going to take time, ideally yes they want to win this year, but what hampered us for years was the lack of continuity, we could 2-14 this year and guaranteed no way Dennis Allen gets fired.

This team will finish no better than 8-8 and we should hope for 6-10. It will be disappointing, but its realistic. We have no depth. We signed Hagan on Thursday and he plays a major role on Monday.

We lose Bartell, Ford, Jones missed practice today, McClain missed practice. We don't have Curry, Moore did not practice all off-season. Criner is hampered. Brandon Myers is our TE.

The biggest problem is Palmer. He has no fire or sense of urgency. 2:18 left in the first half and we're driving instead of getting them to the line like Manning would and getting a play off before the 2 minute warning, he lets it tick down. Then for the final 2 minutes we're rushed and burning through our time outs.

Our O-line is not good enough for the zone blocking scheme. Cooper is old, Barnes is a fat lazy slob who just wants his money. Wiz is coming off injury.

If we lose to Miami this week, we are in major trouble and if we beat them like we should please don't start with hyping this team as a play-off contender. There will be no playoffs.

McFadden our most reliable weapon rushed for 32 yards on 15 carries, its because he is not fit for a zone blocking scheme, not for his lack of cut back ability or speed, but he lacks vision. He needs a hole to hit with authority, we don't want him to look where he needs to cut.

Condo is not practicing and we signed a long snapper cut by San Diego.

We need this team to be more disciplined, count the mistakes that killed us (not counting the disaster special teams after Condo went down):

Tommy Kelly twice jumps offside and he is a veteran giving them a first down.

Pivotal third and longs and we give huge pass plays.

Jones bobbling the balls because you Jones apologists want to excuse because Reece pitched it too high, jump on the ball kid don't run 25 yards backwards trying to create something, its the NFL not pee-wee football anymore.

McFadden on a momentum gaining drive loses 10 yards 10???? on a hand-off.

Third and 3 and Palmer and Myers combine on a route a yard short of the marker, why run the route and why pass that ball. Then the next play 4th and short 12 men in the huddle. How in the hell does Norv Turner know that before our own team. Our dweeb players and coaches standing there, while Turner is telling the zebras to throw the flag.

The teams that won this week didn't make repeatable bone headed moves.

I have loved the Raiders since I was 9 and like we're headed it for the future and will be realistic about this season and hope to be pleasantly surprised by a ten win season and playoffs, but realize there is a better chance I may get signed to be the new long snapper.


dam homie. hell yea.

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green24 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
This is football, not pussology 101
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 33067
Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Burgesskills wrote:
You unrealistic fans are nuts. Reggie McKenzie is not worried about pressure. Mark Davis is not his father, he hired a GM to control the team. Everyone knows they are rebuilding and they had no draft picks this year, no cap space, and very little depth.

It is going to take time, ideally yes they want to win this year, but what hampered us for years was the lack of continuity, we could 2-14 this year and guaranteed no way Dennis Allen gets fired.

This team will finish no better than 8-8 and we should hope for 6-10. It will be disappointing, but its realistic. We have no depth. We signed Hagan on Thursday and he plays a major role on Monday.

We lose Bartell, Ford, Jones missed practice today, McClain missed practice. We don't have Curry, Moore did not practice all off-season. Criner is hampered. Brandon Myers is our TE.

The biggest problem is Palmer. He has no fire or sense of urgency. 2:18 left in the first half and we're driving instead of getting them to the line like Manning would and getting a play off before the 2 minute warning, he lets it tick down. Then for the final 2 minutes we're rushed and burning through our time outs.

Our O-line is not good enough for the zone blocking scheme. Cooper is old, Barnes is a fat lazy slob who just wants his money. Wiz is coming off injury.

If we lose to Miami this week, we are in major trouble and if we beat them like we should please don't start with hyping this team as a play-off contender. There will be no playoffs.

McFadden our most reliable weapon rushed for 32 yards on 15 carries, its because he is not fit for a zone blocking scheme, not for his lack of cut back ability or speed, but he lacks vision. He needs a hole to hit with authority, we don't want him to look where he needs to cut.

Condo is not practicing and we signed a long snapper cut by San Diego.

We need this team to be more disciplined, count the mistakes that killed us (not counting the disaster special teams after Condo went down):

Tommy Kelly twice jumps offside and he is a veteran giving them a first down.

Pivotal third and longs and we give huge pass plays.

Jones bobbling the balls because you Jones apologists want to excuse because Reece pitched it too high, jump on the ball kid don't run 25 yards backwards trying to create something, its the NFL not pee-wee football anymore.

McFadden on a momentum gaining drive loses 10 yards 10???? on a hand-off.

Third and 3 and Palmer and Myers combine on a route a yard short of the marker, why run the route and why pass that ball. Then the next play 4th and short 12 men in the huddle. How in the hell does Norv Turner know that before our own team. Our dweeb players and coaches standing there, while Turner is telling the zebras to throw the flag.

The teams that won this week didn't make repeatable bone headed moves.

I have loved the Raiders since I was 9 and like we're headed it for the future and will be realistic about this season and hope to be pleasantly surprised by a ten win season and playoffs, but realize there is a better chance I may get signed to be the new long snapper.


dam homie. hell yea.




That was the biggest load of crap overreaction rant I've ever read.
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Silver&Black88 wrote:
Somewhere, RR strokes his mustache with pride
Among other things...
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22507
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burgesskills wrote:
You unrealistic fans are nuts. Reggie McKenzie is not worried about pressure. Mark Davis is not his father, he hired a GM to control the team. Everyone knows they are rebuilding and they had no draft picks this year, no cap space, and very little depth.

It is going to take time, ideally yes they want to win this year, but what hampered us for years was the lack of continuity, we could 2-14 this year and guaranteed no way Dennis Allen gets fired.

This team will finish no better than 8-8 and we should hope for 6-10. It will be disappointing, but its realistic. We have no depth. We signed Hagan on Thursday and he plays a major role on Monday.

We lose Bartell, Ford, Jones missed practice today, McClain missed practice. We don't have Curry, Moore did not practice all off-season. Criner is hampered. Brandon Myers is our TE.

The biggest problem is Palmer. He has no fire or sense of urgency. 2:18 left in the first half and we're driving instead of getting them to the line like Manning would and getting a play off before the 2 minute warning, he lets it tick down. Then for the final 2 minutes we're rushed and burning through our time outs.

Our O-line is not good enough for the zone blocking scheme. Cooper is old, Barnes is a fat lazy slob who just wants his money. Wiz is coming off injury.

If we lose to Miami this week, we are in major trouble and if we beat them like we should please don't start with hyping this team as a play-off contender. There will be no playoffs.

McFadden our most reliable weapon rushed for 32 yards on 15 carries, its because he is not fit for a zone blocking scheme, not for his lack of cut back ability or speed, but he lacks vision. He needs a hole to hit with authority, we don't want him to look where he needs to cut.

Condo is not practicing and we signed a long snapper cut by San Diego.

We need this team to be more disciplined, count the mistakes that killed us (not counting the disaster special teams after Condo went down):

Tommy Kelly twice jumps offside and he is a veteran giving them a first down.

Pivotal third and longs and we give huge pass plays.

Jones bobbling the balls because you Jones apologists want to excuse because Reece pitched it too high, jump on the ball kid don't run 25 yards backwards trying to create something, its the NFL not pee-wee football anymore.

McFadden on a momentum gaining drive loses 10 yards 10???? on a hand-off.

Third and 3 and Palmer and Myers combine on a route a yard short of the marker, why run the route and why pass that ball. Then the next play 4th and short 12 men in the huddle. How in the hell does Norv Turner know that before our own team. Our dweeb players and coaches standing there, while Turner is telling the zebras to throw the flag.

The teams that won this week didn't make repeatable bone headed moves.

I have loved the Raiders since I was 9 and like we're headed it for the future and will be realistic about this season and hope to be pleasantly surprised by a ten win season and playoffs, but realize there is a better chance I may get signed to be the new long snapper.


The biggest Problem is Palmer. Please..... spare me. If you honestly think Palmer is the biggest problem, you're misguided. Depth and a lack of game changing talent is the biggest problem. A serviceable vet QB is not the problem.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22507
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Burgesskills wrote:
You unrealistic fans are nuts. Reggie McKenzie is not worried about pressure. Mark Davis is not his father, he hired a GM to control the team. Everyone knows they are rebuilding and they had no draft picks this year, no cap space, and very little depth.

It is going to take time, ideally yes they want to win this year, but what hampered us for years was the lack of continuity, we could 2-14 this year and guaranteed no way Dennis Allen gets fired.

This team will finish no better than 8-8 and we should hope for 6-10. It will be disappointing, but its realistic. We have no depth. We signed Hagan on Thursday and he plays a major role on Monday.

We lose Bartell, Ford, Jones missed practice today, McClain missed practice. We don't have Curry, Moore did not practice all off-season. Criner is hampered. Brandon Myers is our TE.

The biggest problem is Palmer. He has no fire or sense of urgency. 2:18 left in the first half and we're driving instead of getting them to the line like Manning would and getting a play off before the 2 minute warning, he lets it tick down. Then for the final 2 minutes we're rushed and burning through our time outs.

Our O-line is not good enough for the zone blocking scheme. Cooper is old, Barnes is a fat lazy slob who just wants his money. Wiz is coming off injury.

If we lose to Miami this week, we are in major trouble and if we beat them like we should please don't start with hyping this team as a play-off contender. There will be no playoffs.

McFadden our most reliable weapon rushed for 32 yards on 15 carries, its because he is not fit for a zone blocking scheme, not for his lack of cut back ability or speed, but he lacks vision. He needs a hole to hit with authority, we don't want him to look where he needs to cut.

Condo is not practicing and we signed a long snapper cut by San Diego.

We need this team to be more disciplined, count the mistakes that killed us (not counting the disaster special teams after Condo went down):

Tommy Kelly twice jumps offside and he is a veteran giving them a first down.

Pivotal third and longs and we give huge pass plays.

Jones bobbling the balls because you Jones apologists want to excuse because Reece pitched it too high, jump on the ball kid don't run 25 yards backwards trying to create something, its the NFL not pee-wee football anymore.

McFadden on a momentum gaining drive loses 10 yards 10???? on a hand-off.

Third and 3 and Palmer and Myers combine on a route a yard short of the marker, why run the route and why pass that ball. Then the next play 4th and short 12 men in the huddle. How in the hell does Norv Turner know that before our own team. Our dweeb players and coaches standing there, while Turner is telling the zebras to throw the flag.

The teams that won this week didn't make repeatable bone headed moves.

I have loved the Raiders since I was 9 and like we're headed it for the future and will be realistic about this season and hope to be pleasantly surprised by a ten win season and playoffs, but realize there is a better chance I may get signed to be the new long snapper.


dam homie. hell yea.




That was the biggest load of crap overreaction rant I've ever read.


+1. That post was hot freaking garbage top to bottom. Can't believe I mustered up the time it took to read it all.

Not a rationale thought there. On McFadden, did you stop to think once that maybe SD's defense played him well. No WR threat, they were able to key on him knowing he's the Raiders 1 game changing player.

Vision . . . GTFO of here. McFadden didn't get a lot of holes and SD did a good job containing him.

I also find it Hi-larious the '3rd down, throw the ball past the marker crowd'. Do you ever stop to think they are covering those deeper routes?? Do you stop and think about that at all? Countless teams each week on 3rd and short will use an underneath route and hope the player breaks a tackle. You people act like it's just the Raiders. If the player makes the play, breaks a tackle, etc. it's a non issue. The Packers will run smoke screens on third and a yard for F sake. Watch Houston play. 3rd and mid, they are looking for a crossing pattern and some YAC.

This forum is making my blood boil. Just non-sense after non-sense like we've never seen a game of football before. It's literally mind-numbing.

The sad part, when the Raiders win, it will be a 180 and all the talk will be back on PLAYOFFS and how super duper talented the Raiders are.
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