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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22108
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burgesskills wrote:
Lay off Jones really? Opening kick the kid bobbles the ball. Reece pitched it high, but he should be able to bring the ball in. Don't make excuses for the kid.

Even if you Jones apologists still want to excuse him, how about the dummy jumping on the ball instead of running backwards 25 yards on a drive we had momentum.


Nobody is making excuses. Just don't need people calling him 'trash' for a mistake. He's a young player, young players will make mistakes. But the problem here is some Raider fans act like these players have to be 100% perfect in all phases, all the time. No room for an error or you're 'trash'.

Burgesskills wrote:
We're in trouble again this year. McFadden can't do it all and showed in years past he is not good in a zone blocking scheme, especially one where his blockers suck.


So no credit to SD's improved defense? It's one week, settle down.

Burgesskills wrote:
Ford one of our most explosive players gone again. Bartell is out, so our think Defensive backfield just got a little thinner. Our guys showed they're still undisciplined and still know how to blow the game by giving the other team first downs and extra yards.


Held the Chargers to under 2.0 YPC. A team that has a history of being awful and undisciplined against the run looked pretty disciplined Monday night. The penalties, read Kelly, are a work in progress. The accountability and coaching is there, but it's not going to happen overnight.

[quote="Burgesskills"]The biggest play that stood out to me was a 3rd and 9 Gates smokes Branch over the middle for a 20 yard gain. Inexcusable.
Burgesskills wrote:
the nonsense I can't stand. Gates, an elite pass catching TE who's game is using his size and body position against smaller defenders to make plays makes a catch. Well let's just cut Branch. Clearly he's 'trash' because he didn't eliminate Gates entirely.

[quote="Burgesskills"]We better hope to go 6-10 because I think we finish the year at 4-12. We couldn't even beat the Chargers minus their starting left tackle and lead back. Their best receiving option is Gates and Bartell while healthy got smokes by meachum on a double move and Floyd because he never turned his head around.


And more nonsense. How about looking at the real issue. The loss of Condo. The Raiders were in the game and had 9 points given up off the long snapping issue.

Players are going to give up plays on occasion. Even great players, but the D bent but did not break. Held them to FGs on all but one occasion. Pretty impressive to me from last years defense that would have given up 3-4 TDs in the same situation.

Chargers are a good team with an elite QB and great play caller and the rebuilding Raiders hung there and realistically could have won the game if not for losing Condo.

Burgesskills wrote:
I hope by week 10 they throw TP in there to see what we have for the future.


1 week in. This post is honestly embarrassing after week 1. It's not how you start, it's how you finish. The team is going to be rough around the edges. They are basically a glorified expansion team at this stage.

Maybe calm down and let them progress some before spouting off nonsense.

It amazes me that some of you act like this team is a playoff team and that they should be 100% on point at this stage. They are young, rebuilding across the board and you are best served to remind yourself of that and take things in stride.
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 14106
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
They are basically a glorified expansion team at this stage.


I never expected much from this team but the concern i have is the number of old starters we have. What exactly are we trying to accomplish this season? I don't see what we're building with so many stopgap players on the roster.
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 32161
Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
They are basically a glorified expansion team at this stage.


I never expected much from this team but the concern i have is the number of old starters we have. What exactly are we trying to accomplish this season? I don't see what we're building with so many stopgap players on the roster.


I think this season is about getting rid of the dead weight and big salaries and putting the McK/Allen stamp on the franchise. We dumped a lot of large contracts and had to regroup with a lot of stop gaps for this year. Hence the abnormally large amount of 1 year deals we have.
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple things. BIG P You shouldnt take people calling players trash or garbage literally. For the most part its a way people talk or it is just said out of anger. Like for example I know this guy Im beating in Madden isnt trast but as Im beating him I call him trash or garbage. Its basically has become a way of saying someone is bad or being bad at the moment.

But also I really havent seen what Jones has done in the NFL that people feel the need to defend him so much. He hasnt shown me much yet.

Another thing is NO he shouldnt give the Chargers all the credit for a 15 rush 32 yards performance. Thats pathetic, especially since palmer said their corners was playing press and as soon as ball was snapping was back pedaling to get back and that the safeties was also back. To me that means there is no way our top 5 running back should had more yards than that. ZBS is trash and im pretty sure I saw you yourself say you rather have PBS back.

Next we did look much better on defense no doubt. But like you love to say its only week 1 and we probably played the worse running backs we are going to see all season.

Next you have said plenty times this team is rebuilding, This is a rebuidling year. If this is the case saying Pryor should be playing week 10 shouldnt be a problem for you. We need to see what he can do in live NFL action. We have an OC unless fired, who use QBs like Pryor skills pretty well. Palmer isnt part of the rebuild or the future, so if this truly is a rebuilding year I see no reason of not playing Pryor once the season is lost.( And I hate Pryor).
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 14106
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
They are basically a glorified expansion team at this stage.


I never expected much from this team but the concern i have is the number of old starters we have. What exactly are we trying to accomplish this season? I don't see what we're building with so many stopgap players on the roster.


I think this season is about getting rid of the dead weight and big salaries and putting the McK/Allen stamp on the franchise. We dumped a lot of large contracts and had to regroup with a lot of stop gaps for this year. Hence the abnormally large amount of 1 year deals we have.


That probaly means half the team won't be on the roster 2 years from now. So why not give a chance to younger players who could be part of the future? Seems like we're trying to be competitive (although we realistically have zero chance at a title) and build at the same time.
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 5183
Location: Dublin
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
They are basically a glorified expansion team at this stage.


I never expected much from this team but the concern i have is the number of old starters we have. What exactly are we trying to accomplish this season? I don't see what we're building with so many stopgap players on the roster.



I'm sure Allen wants to win games to keep his job which is why he wouldn't want to completely rip up the roster. If we only get 3 or 4 wins this season he'd be under huge pressure. Not to mention that if we want to keep our good young players we need to show them that this team is capable of winning and still has a desire to compete.
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BlackPrestige92 wrote:
Matt Flynn is going to do a good job. He has a poise about him and that's good to see. I am ecstatic to welcome him into the Raider Nation.
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 32161
Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
They are basically a glorified expansion team at this stage.


I never expected much from this team but the concern i have is the number of old starters we have. What exactly are we trying to accomplish this season? I don't see what we're building with so many stopgap players on the roster.


I think this season is about getting rid of the dead weight and big salaries and putting the McK/Allen stamp on the franchise. We dumped a lot of large contracts and had to regroup with a lot of stop gaps for this year. Hence the abnormally large amount of 1 year deals we have.


That probaly means half the team won't be on the roster 2 years from now. So why not give a chance to younger players who could be part of the future? Seems like we're trying to be competitive (although we realistically have zero chance at a title) and build at the same time.


Well, some of the vet acquisitions are for the future too. Wheeler, Brisel and Goodson are guys that are probably part of the long term for us. We already had a decent base to build off of. And if not for the giant change in offensive scheme, I think we'd be in the thick of it for the playoff race.
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ravens_rool28 wrote:
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
They are basically a glorified expansion team at this stage.


I never expected much from this team but the concern i have is the number of old starters we have. What exactly are we trying to accomplish this season? I don't see what we're building with so many stopgap players on the roster.



I'm sure Allen wants to win games to keep his job which is why he wouldn't want to completely rip up the roster. If we only get 3 or 4 wins this season he'd be under huge pressure. Not to mention that if we want to keep our good young players we need to show them that this team is capable of winning and still has a desire to compete.


It wasn't Allen's call to make. It's McKenzie's job to bring in or get rid of players. If he had decided to go with a young inexperienced team, he obviously shouldn't have been asking for immediate results from Allen. Just set up a goal and a time line and stick to it unless he realizes Allen isn't made for the job along the way.
At some point, we'll have to replace the aging guys with inexperienced players anyway and it'll still put Allen at risk.
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 6470
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only reason anyone's questioning what this team is trying to accomplish is because they failed miserably in their search for someone to run the offense. There should have only been improvement this season with Palmer spending the off-season with the team and McFadden returning healthy. After being a strength during the past 2 seasons, it's looked like a weakness thus far. The talent on this team is ready to compete.
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
Raidin wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
They are basically a glorified expansion team at this stage.


I never expected much from this team but the concern i have is the number of old starters we have. What exactly are we trying to accomplish this season? I don't see what we're building with so many stopgap players on the roster.



I'm sure Allen wants to win games to keep his job which is why he wouldn't want to completely rip up the roster. If we only get 3 or 4 wins this season he'd be under huge pressure. Not to mention that if we want to keep our good young players we need to show them that this team is capable of winning and still has a desire to compete.


It wasn't Allen's call to make. It's McKenzie's job to bring in or get rid of players. If he had decided to go with a young inexperienced team, he obviously shouldn't have been asking for immediate results from Allen. Just set up a goal and a time line and stick to it unless he realizes Allen isn't made for the job along the way.
At some point, we'll have to replace the aging guys with inexperienced players anyway and it'll still put Allen at risk.


The biggest problem is that either Allen or McKenzie believed in Greg Knapp. Every team signs stop gaps. It's not a big deal. The talent is there and everyone's on the same page about making a push for the playoffs. But that can't happen if both sides of the ball aren't being coached to their max potential. It's the same as last season. Good offensive coaching. Bad defensive coaching. We saw the results.
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OakRaiders3828


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 9877
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dante, the ZBS isn't "trash" It's a very proven and effective way to run the ball, IF executed properly...that's our problem.

If this offense will be successful or not is still to be determined, But I do prefer McFadden in a PBS, I still have a lot of hope though that he/we'll succeed .
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:
Dante, the ZBS isn't "trash" It's a very proven and effective way to run the ball, IF executed properly...that's our problem.

If this offense will be successful or not is still to be determined, But I do prefer McFadden in a PBS, I still have a lot of hope though that he/we'll succeed .


But thats my point and kinda similar to the point oak was making. Are we rebuilding or are we trying to win. Our 2 best olineman from last year excel in PBS. our worse lineman even was better in it. Now we are asking Barnes and Cooper to try to move their feet more to open holes. Valdheer and Wiz strength was mauling and going straight forward which ZBS limits somewhat. Crap they thought Parsons was a better option than Wiz at this point. The last rushing performance Mcfadden had that bad was the last time we ran ZBS.

It can be effective after years and years of training and getting the right staff to work it. Knapp will have to be here for a few years and we will have to revamp our oline before we see real success with it. McFadden will still have good games this year dont get me wrong just not the stand out season he could of had.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22108
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
They are basically a glorified expansion team at this stage.


I never expected much from this team but the concern i have is the number of old starters we have. What exactly are we trying to accomplish this season? I don't see what we're building with so many stopgap players on the roster.


Building a new culture is the main aspect. Disciple, accountability, etc. in the post Davis era.

Rebuilding the roster will take some time seeing as the team was strapped with cap issues and limited draft picks.

IMO, the rebuilding starts with issuing a new era of how things will be ran day to day and what is expected of each player. McKenzie went out and found some stopgap players to compete to see if they will be a part of the future in Oakland.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
A couple things. BIG P You shouldnt take people calling players trash or garbage literally. For the most part its a way people talk or it is just said out of anger. Like for example I know this guy Im beating in Madden isnt trast but as Im beating him I call him trash or garbage. Its basically has become a way of saying someone is bad or being bad at the moment.

But also I really havent seen what Jones has done in the NFL that people feel the need to defend him so much. He hasnt shown me much yet.

Another thing is NO he shouldnt give the Chargers all the credit for a 15 rush 32 yards performance. Thats pathetic, especially since palmer said their corners was playing press and as soon as ball was snapping was back pedaling to get back and that the safeties was also back. To me that means there is no way our top 5 running back should had more yards than that. ZBS is trash and im pretty sure I saw you yourself say you rather have PBS back.

Next we did look much better on defense no doubt. But like you love to say its only week 1 and we probably played the worse running backs we are going to see all season.

Next you have said plenty times this team is rebuilding, This is a rebuidling year. If this is the case saying Pryor should be playing week 10 shouldnt be a problem for you. We need to see what he can do in live NFL action. We have an OC unless fired, who use QBs like Pryor skills pretty well. Palmer isnt part of the rebuild or the future, so if this truly is a rebuilding year I see no reason of not playing Pryor once the season is lost.( And I hate Pryor).


I get it, I just think it's disrespectful to refer to people as trash because they don't conform to your vision of what they should be. That's in all walks of life.

I think the ZBS is effective when ran correctly w/ the right players. Houston, Seattle, Washington run it with aplomb.

My frustration is Oakland (Hue Jackson) picked the offense out of the gutter, changed to the PBS and saved McFadden in the process. So why go back? Results may vary, but right now, it's not good.

As for Pryor. Catch 22 here. The Raiders (no fault to the current FO) paid a high price for Palmer. He's the best QB on the roster without question and will likely hold that spot down for 3-4 more seasons.

I don't see a scenario where Pryor is starting for the Raiders next year or even the year after. So they are not 'rebuilding' around him as the future QB.
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Dreadymatt


Joined: 05 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's see if Roy Williams would come out of retirement
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