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Going East: Arizona Cardinals at New England Patriots
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#1CARDSFAN


Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 23284
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

holt_bruce81 wrote:
Nice win today guys, NFC West 6-2!


Seattle lost to the Cardinals and Detroit beat St. Louis on the last play. Really only 1 loss outside the division.
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#1CARDSFAN


Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 23284
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

11sanchez11 wrote:
Again only one sack given up, making it two in two games. I know the one sack doesn't truly represent the amount of pressure Kolb was under today but the o-line has played better than expected, at least in pass pro.


Like I said my friend in last weeks thread. These outside tackles will only get better. What happens to Levi Brown?
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

#1CARDSFAN wrote:
11sanchez11 wrote:
Again only one sack given up, making it two in two games. I know the one sack doesn't truly represent the amount of pressure Kolb was under today but the o-line has played better than expected, at least in pass pro.


Like I said my friend in last weeks thread. These outside tackles will only get better. What happens to Levi Brown?


I highly doubt Batiste gets any better.

Still fair to wonder about Brown's future. He'e essentially on a 1 year deal and even though we've passed on them in previous drafts, a tackle can never be ruled out as a draft day target.
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apollo14000


Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Posts: 4239
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

love2theOLINE wrote:
DJ_Fka wrote:
khodder wrote:
http://www.azcardinals.com/videos-photos/videos/Cardinals-postgame-press-conference/759ab5ed-cd8f-41d6-87df-746ddaf646d2

Post-Game Presser.

Whis mentions the fumble twice. Not once does he mention what an idiotic playcall it was.


Easier to pass blame than take it

Also he is a head coach and Williams is basically a rookie


While I agree on the call being bad but hindsight is 20/20.......
Williams needs to hang on to the ball.


Yeah honestly it's still at least 99% Williams fault. It may have been a bad call by Whiz/Miller but bad calls end up in negative yardage not turnovers. Turnovers are completely on the players IMHO.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

apollo14000 wrote:
love2theOLINE wrote:
DJ_Fka wrote:
khodder wrote:
http://www.azcardinals.com/videos-photos/videos/Cardinals-postgame-press-conference/759ab5ed-cd8f-41d6-87df-746ddaf646d2

Post-Game Presser.

Whis mentions the fumble twice. Not once does he mention what an idiotic playcall it was.


Easier to pass blame than take it

Also he is a head coach and Williams is basically a rookie


While I agree on the call being bad but hindsight is 20/20.......
Williams needs to hang on to the ball.


Yeah honestly it's still at least 99% Williams fault. It may have been a bad call by Whiz/Miller but bad calls end up in negative yardage not turnovers. Turnovers are completely on the players IMHO.


I'm not sure I agree. Unless Williams runs for 13 and the first down there, which is nearly impossible with the defense NE came to the line with, nothing good comes from that play. By calling it, you're setting someone up for potential failure.

Williams needs to hang onto that ball, NO QUESTION but calling a play that's best result is the same as a kneel down isn't something I'd endorse.
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apollo14000


Joined: 07 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
apollo14000 wrote:
love2theOLINE wrote:
DJ_Fka wrote:
khodder wrote:
http://www.azcardinals.com/videos-photos/videos/Cardinals-postgame-press-conference/759ab5ed-cd8f-41d6-87df-746ddaf646d2

Post-Game Presser.

Whis mentions the fumble twice. Not once does he mention what an idiotic playcall it was.


Easier to pass blame than take it

Also he is a head coach and Williams is basically a rookie


While I agree on the call being bad but hindsight is 20/20.......
Williams needs to hang on to the ball.


Yeah honestly it's still at least 99% Williams fault. It may have been a bad call by Whiz/Miller but bad calls end up in negative yardage not turnovers. Turnovers are completely on the players IMHO.


I'm not sure I agree. Unless Williams runs for 13 and the first down there, which is nearly impossible with the defense NE came to the line with, nothing good comes from that play. By calling it, you're setting someone up for potential failure.

Williams needs to hang onto that ball, NO QUESTION but calling a play that's best result is the same as a kneel down isn't something I'd endorse.


That's my point though. The negative yards are on Whiz/Miller. But I certainly don't blame them for the fumble and nearly costing us the game.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

apollo14000 wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
apollo14000 wrote:
love2theOLINE wrote:
DJ_Fka wrote:
khodder wrote:
http://www.azcardinals.com/videos-photos/videos/Cardinals-postgame-press-conference/759ab5ed-cd8f-41d6-87df-746ddaf646d2

Post-Game Presser.

Whis mentions the fumble twice. Not once does he mention what an idiotic playcall it was.


Easier to pass blame than take it

Also he is a head coach and Williams is basically a rookie


While I agree on the call being bad but hindsight is 20/20.......
Williams needs to hang on to the ball.


Yeah honestly it's still at least 99% Williams fault. It may have been a bad call by Whiz/Miller but bad calls end up in negative yardage not turnovers. Turnovers are completely on the players IMHO.


I'm not sure I agree. Unless Williams runs for 13 and the first down there, which is nearly impossible with the defense NE came to the line with, nothing good comes from that play. By calling it, you're setting someone up for potential failure.

Williams needs to hang onto that ball, NO QUESTION but calling a play that's best result is the same as a kneel down isn't something I'd endorse.


That's my point though. The negative yards are on Whiz/Miller. But I certainly don't blame them for the fumble and nearly costing us the game.


That's kind of my point thought. When you run a play where the true best outcome is a loss of yards with your running backs getting wrapped up by an 8 man front, you're not calling the right play. I give full credit for the fumble to Williams but I think we have to do a better job as a coaching staff of putting our guys in position to succeed. I don't think Whiz/Miller did that on that particular play. Take the knee, run the 45 seconds off the clock and play defense in NE's end of the field for less than a half minute. That's putting our team in the best position to succeed.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And if we are gonna run the ball there, why not give it to Beanie?
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DRC29 INT


Joined: 15 Mar 2009
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Location: Arizona
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beanie said he's perfectly fine on twitter and that they're just easing him in. Said next week they'll cut him loose, iirc.

As far as the playcall on the fumble? Awful. Not only was it a pitch, so you risk a bad exchange, but you also put the RB out in the open for a clean hit as we saw. No excuse to fumble but at the same time you can't put your players in more vulnerable positions .. esp when he fumbled week 1.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DRC29 INT wrote:
Beanie said he's perfectly fine on twitter and that they're just easing him in. Said next week they'll cut him loose, iirc.

As far as the playcall on the fumble? Awful. Not only was it a pitch, so you risk a bad exchange, but you also put the RB out in the open for a clean hit as we saw. No excuse to fumble but at the same time you can't put your players in more vulnerable positions .. esp when he fumbled week 1.


That's exactly what I'm saying. Don't put your guys into situations where the best possible outcome is still a negative. Just take the knee and move on. And yes, if you're gonna run there why would you call a play to the guy who just fumbled on a crucial carry last Sunday?

Still not excusing the fumble 1 bit and I'm still very upset with Williams for allowing it to happen but I do think the offensive coaching staff did him a disservice on that one.
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11sanchez11


Joined: 08 Feb 2010
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Location: Tucson, AZ
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's Whiz's explanation:
Quote:

“They went to a goal-line defense, so we were trying to beat them outside with speed,” Whisenhunt said. “We put Larry (Fitzgerald) on the outside thinking that they would have to put an extra guy out there to cover him to give us an edge. We knew it was going to be tough, but I thought that would give them, with 30 seconds left, with a good punt, no time outs and that that would be tough against our defense.

“I didn’t want to throw it. I had a one-on-one situation with Larry, but I was worried about stopping the clock and giving them too much time. We were playing the odds there. In fact, that’s why I called a time out – or excuse me, challenged the one (incompletion to Fitzgerald on the previous possession) there – because I was trying to get the seconds to continue to run on the clock with a completed pass, even though we were going to punt it.”


http://blog.azcardinals.com/2012/09/17/the-toss-play-explained/
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

11sanchez11 wrote:
Here's Whiz's explanation:
Quote:

“They went to a goal-line defense, so we were trying to beat them outside with speed,” Whisenhunt said. “We put Larry (Fitzgerald) on the outside thinking that they would have to put an extra guy out there to cover him to give us an edge. We knew it was going to be tough, but I thought that would give them, with 30 seconds left, with a good punt, no time outs and that that would be tough against our defense.

“I didn’t want to throw it. I had a one-on-one situation with Larry, but I was worried about stopping the clock and giving them too much time. We were playing the odds there. In fact, that’s why I called a time out – or excuse me, challenged the one (incompletion to Fitzgerald on the previous possession) there – because I was trying to get the seconds to continue to run on the clock with a completed pass, even though we were going to punt it.”


http://blog.azcardinals.com/2012/09/17/the-toss-play-explained/


So we were trying for the 1st down? With a run play? Had he not been watching the game? Run game wasn't working and when it did, it was Beanie carrying the football.
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khodder


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you acknowledge you are going to punt it. You say you are playing the odds.

Would the odds not state that taking a knee is the best way to go there?
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
So you acknowledge you are going to punt it. You say you are playing the odds.

Would the odds not state that taking a knee is the best way to go there?


Nah, the punt comment is referring to the drive before.

I think this reads that he wants to get the first down. Otherwise, why consider a pass to Larry (Or, for that matter, a pass at all)?
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khodder


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
khodder wrote:
So you acknowledge you are going to punt it. You say you are playing the odds.

Would the odds not state that taking a knee is the best way to go there?


Nah, the punt comment is referring to the drive before.

I think this reads that he wants to get the first down. Otherwise, why consider a pass to Larry (Or, for that matter, a pass at all)?


Quote:
but I thought that would give them, with 30 seconds left, with a good punt, no time outs and that that would be tough against our defense.

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