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Going East: Arizona Cardinals at New England Patriots
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younggun1273


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tzimisce wrote:
khodder wrote:
Tzimisce wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
Also why aren't the Pats coming here? They were here in 04' & we went there in 08' right? Four years later we're going to Foxboro again... How do i file a grievance against Goodell? I hear he can be beat these days...
The league made it so that no east coast team would have to make two separate trips to the west coast in any given year unless there was a bye week preceding one of them. The Pats travel to Seattle later this year.


If that is true then why is the opposite not true. There is more of an impact of going West to East than vice versa. Arizona had four separate trips to the East Coast, none precceded the BYE.

Is this a new rule? We have three East Coast trips this week, but our trip to Atlanta is after the BYE.

Wish I knew.


Talk about East Coast bias Rolling Eyes
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tzimisce wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
1). Jake Locker as a player isn't any different than Kevin Kolb really, besides the arm strength.
Is this really accurate? I never viewed Kolb as a running threat. Locker had 1939 rush yards [4.3 YPC] in college Kolb had 751 [1.6 YPC]. Locker boasts a 6.7 YPC on the ground so far as a pro to Kolb's 2.4.

Anyway my biggest concern about this game as a Pats fan is that the Cardinals have a much stouter front-7 than the Titans, so they'll be a much bigger test for an OL that still has yet to allay the doubts that were raised about it in preseason [particularly the right side of the line with Sebastian Vollmer not yet 100% and the RG position in flux with Dan Connolly having to be pulled from the Titans game for a possible concussion].


Locker's faster, certainly. Should have mentioned that. Stats don't mean much if anything, however. Not when put into context. In TN, he's encouraged to run. In AZ, Kolb isn't. That's arguably the biggest reason he didn't win the starting QB job. He's a mobile QB on a team that stresses making plays inside the pocket.

As players, I don't see them much differently at all. Certainly Locker's got some more impressive physical traits, speed, arm strength but as far as how a defense would attack, I don't see anything grossly different.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

younggun1273 wrote:
Tzimisce wrote:
khodder wrote:
Tzimisce wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
Also why aren't the Pats coming here? They were here in 04' & we went there in 08' right? Four years later we're going to Foxboro again... How do i file a grievance against Goodell? I hear he can be beat these days...
The league made it so that no east coast team would have to make two separate trips to the west coast in any given year unless there was a bye week preceding one of them. The Pats travel to Seattle later this year.


If that is true then why is the opposite not true. There is more of an impact of going West to East than vice versa. Arizona had four separate trips to the East Coast, none precceded the BYE.

Is this a new rule? We have three East Coast trips this week, but our trip to Atlanta is after the BYE.

Wish I knew.


Talk about East Coast bias Rolling Eyes


Are we sure this is entirely true? It seems to ridiculous to be true.

Goodell can't be that moronic...can he?
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Tzimisce


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
Tzimisce wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
1). Jake Locker as a player isn't any different than Kevin Kolb really, besides the arm strength.
Is this really accurate? I never viewed Kolb as a running threat. Locker had 1939 rush yards [4.3 YPC] in college Kolb had 751 [1.6 YPC]. Locker boasts a 6.7 YPC on the ground so far as a pro to Kolb's 2.4.

Anyway my biggest concern about this game as a Pats fan is that the Cardinals have a much stouter front-7 than the Titans, so they'll be a much bigger test for an OL that still has yet to allay the doubts that were raised about it in preseason [particularly the right side of the line with Sebastian Vollmer not yet 100% and the RG position in flux with Dan Connolly having to be pulled from the Titans game for a possible concussion].


Locker's faster, certainly. Should have mentioned that. Stats don't mean much if anything, however. Not when put into context. In TN, he's encouraged to run. In AZ, Kolb isn't. That's arguably the biggest reason he didn't win the starting QB job. He's a mobile QB on a team that stresses making plays inside the pocket.

As players, I don't see them much differently at all. Certainly Locker's got some more impressive physical traits, speed, arm strength but as far as how a defense would attack, I don't see anything grossly different.
I think you're glossing over Kolb's time in Philly, where he played in the same offense in which McNabb [and later Vick] had a great deal of success running with the ball, yet when he did get chances to start, Kolb ran very infrequently [only 36 attempts in 7 starts as a member of the Eagles] and without much success.

But more importantly, if Kolb is not encouraged to run with the ball, that changes the approach of opposing defenses. The Pats won't have to leave a LB or safety to spy on passing downs, and will have more flexibility with blitz packages against Arizona.
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Tzimisce


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
younggun1273 wrote:
Tzimisce wrote:
khodder wrote:
Tzimisce wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
Also why aren't the Pats coming here? They were here in 04' & we went there in 08' right? Four years later we're going to Foxboro again... How do i file a grievance against Goodell? I hear he can be beat these days...
The league made it so that no east coast team would have to make two separate trips to the west coast in any given year unless there was a bye week preceding one of them. The Pats travel to Seattle later this year.


If that is true then why is the opposite not true. There is more of an impact of going West to East than vice versa. Arizona had four separate trips to the East Coast, none precceded the BYE.

Is this a new rule? We have three East Coast trips this week, but our trip to Atlanta is after the BYE.

Wish I knew.


Talk about East Coast bias Rolling Eyes


Are we sure this is entirely true? It seems to ridiculous to be true.

Goodell can't be that moronic...can he?
That's how it was explained to me when I asked the same question a while back. Personally I'd rather the Pats travel to Arizona [despite the lingering bad memories from the game that shall not be named] than to Seattle.
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JeremyB80


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best part of us winning other then another cards win....would be knocking out like 50% of survivor picks this week!
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JeremyB80


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tzimisce wrote:
The Cards signed Rich Ohrnberger? That guy has the funniest twitter feed of any player in the NFL.

http://twitter.com/ohrnberger


My god dude is hilarious!
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Jeebs


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
younggun1273 wrote:
Tzimisce wrote:
khodder wrote:
Tzimisce wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
Also why aren't the Pats coming here? They were here in 04' & we went there in 08' right? Four years later we're going to Foxboro again... How do i file a grievance against Goodell? I hear he can be beat these days...
The league made it so that no east coast team would have to make two separate trips to the west coast in any given year unless there was a bye week preceding one of them. The Pats travel to Seattle later this year.


If that is true then why is the opposite not true. There is more of an impact of going West to East than vice versa. Arizona had four separate trips to the East Coast, none precceded the BYE.

Is this a new rule? We have three East Coast trips this week, but our trip to Atlanta is after the BYE.

Wish I knew.


Talk about East Coast bias Rolling Eyes


Are we sure this is entirely true? It seems to ridiculous to be true.

Goodell can't be that moronic...can he?


I come in peace

There was an article on ESPN called, "Wake Up and Smell the Bias". It outlines how quick the league reacted to the Kraft family complaining about traveling to the west coast.

Quote:
The league took action quickly when the New England Patriots complained about playing two games on the West Coast in succession several years ago. Owners voted to change the scheduling rotation so that Eastern teams drawing Western divisions in the rotation would not visit San Diego and Oakland or Seattle and San Francisco in the same season.


Meanwhile, Arizona plays 5 road games in the 10:00AM slot, and Seattle and San Francisco have 4 (both even have back to back 10:00AM road games).

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/40319/commish-for-a-day-wake-up-smell-the-bias
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younggun1273


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeebs wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
younggun1273 wrote:
Tzimisce wrote:
khodder wrote:
Tzimisce wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
Also why aren't the Pats coming here? They were here in 04' & we went there in 08' right? Four years later we're going to Foxboro again... How do i file a grievance against Goodell? I hear he can be beat these days...
The league made it so that no east coast team would have to make two separate trips to the west coast in any given year unless there was a bye week preceding one of them. The Pats travel to Seattle later this year.


If that is true then why is the opposite not true. There is more of an impact of going West to East than vice versa. Arizona had four separate trips to the East Coast, none precceded the BYE.

Is this a new rule? We have three East Coast trips this week, but our trip to Atlanta is after the BYE.

Wish I knew.


Talk about East Coast bias Rolling Eyes


Are we sure this is entirely true? It seems to ridiculous to be true.

Goodell can't be that moronic...can he?


I come in peace

There was an article on ESPN called, "Wake Up and Smell the Bias". It outlines how quick the league reacted to the Kraft family complaining about traveling to the west coast.

Quote:
The league took action quickly when the New England Patriots complained about playing two games on the West Coast in succession several years ago. Owners voted to change the scheduling rotation so that Eastern teams drawing Western divisions in the rotation would not visit San Diego and Oakland or Seattle and San Francisco in the same season.


Meanwhile, Arizona plays 5 road games in the 10:00AM slot, and Seattle and San Francisco have 4 (both even have back to back 10:00AM road games).

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/40319/commish-for-a-day-wake-up-smell-the-bias


This is really unfortunate to see and what makes it worse is that teams on the East coast have a competitive advantage because of this. This is clearly unfair and needs to be fixed.
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Tzimisce


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yah, even as an east coast elitist snob I think this was mishandled horribly.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tzimisce wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Tzimisce wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
1). Jake Locker as a player isn't any different than Kevin Kolb really, besides the arm strength.
Is this really accurate? I never viewed Kolb as a running threat. Locker had 1939 rush yards [4.3 YPC] in college Kolb had 751 [1.6 YPC]. Locker boasts a 6.7 YPC on the ground so far as a pro to Kolb's 2.4.

Anyway my biggest concern about this game as a Pats fan is that the Cardinals have a much stouter front-7 than the Titans, so they'll be a much bigger test for an OL that still has yet to allay the doubts that were raised about it in preseason [particularly the right side of the line with Sebastian Vollmer not yet 100% and the RG position in flux with Dan Connolly having to be pulled from the Titans game for a possible concussion].


Locker's faster, certainly. Should have mentioned that. Stats don't mean much if anything, however. Not when put into context. In TN, he's encouraged to run. In AZ, Kolb isn't. That's arguably the biggest reason he didn't win the starting QB job. He's a mobile QB on a team that stresses making plays inside the pocket.

As players, I don't see them much differently at all. Certainly Locker's got some more impressive physical traits, speed, arm strength but as far as how a defense would attack, I don't see anything grossly different.
I think you're glossing over Kolb's time in Philly, where he played in the same offense in which McNabb [and later Vick] had a great deal of success running with the ball, yet when he did get chances to start, Kolb ran very infrequently [only 36 attempts in 7 starts as a member of the Eagles] and without much success.

But more importantly, if Kolb is not encouraged to run with the ball, that changes the approach of opposing defenses. The Pats won't have to leave a LB or safety to spy on passing downs, and will have more flexibility with blitz packages against Arizona.


36 attempts in 7 starts. So, roughly 5 rushing attempts per game. That's more attempts per start than Donovan McNabb had in every single year following the 2002 season. I don't see your point. He doesn't run as fast as Locker, I acknowledged that but it doesn't change of comparison-ish view of the 2 players. They play the position quite similiar to each other when you see them on tape.

1 spy coming after the QB? That's not much of a blitz. Even then, I don't buy this argument much either. Russell Wilson's a quick, mobile QB and we went right after him. Last year in our game against Philly(A win) we went right after Michael Vick. A blitzing, attacking, overly aggressive defense is always going to be a blitzing, attacking, overly aggresssive defense regardless of the opponent. That's just not what you seem to be. Nothing wrong with that, nothing at all, just saying that's not what you appear to be.
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Tzimisce


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pigeonholing the Pats, of all teams, as being blitzing or non-blitzing is silly. Belichick will always install a different game plan for each opponent depending on their tendencies.

On that note, what is the Cards' TE situation? I see Jeff King listed as the #1 TE on the depth chart, but is he truly the go-to guy at the position, or is that still Heap?
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tzimisce wrote:
Pigeonholing the Pats, of all teams, as being blitzing or non-blitzing is silly. Belichick will always install a different game plan for each opponent depending on their tendencies.


The seasonal blitzing numbers you put up year in, year out state otherwise. Ya, maybe you'll shake it up every now and then but in the long run grand scheme of things, this is who you are. I'm sorry if that bothers you but this IS your defense.

It's a good defense. Again, there's nothing wrong with the you guys choose to play the game. One of the greatest defensive games in Cardinals franchise history, the 2008-2009 divisional round playoff game in Carolina, was a game that saw us sit in 7-8 man zones for 90% of the day. Picked Jake Delhomme 5-6 times.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Skelton sat out practice today with that lower sprained ankle. O'Brien Schofield, Jamell fleming and Adrian Wilson were limited. Everyone else was apparently a full go.
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Tzimisce


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I think if there's any opponent on this year's schedule against whom Belichick will send the dogs after the QB it's the Cardinals. Their tackles are inexperienced and they don't really have that playmaking TE who can burn you down the seam if you blitz.

That's just my read on things. I could well be wrong.
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