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Forge


Joined: 19 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
I think Jenkins will break out. He just wasn't ready physically and mentally for the NFL, but with a full offseason and a show of confidence, I'm sure he will progress tremendously. He has all the foot talent and hand talent to be a very good receiver in the NFL. It's hard to tell if he has the work ethic to match, but if he puts in the effort, work on his routes, learn the playbook to the best of his capacities, he will get opportunities. If Harbaugh has shown anything, it's that he values players with solid grasp of the playbook. It's normal that a raw prospect from a non pro-stule school can be a little overwhelmed when coming in. The fact is, we didn't really truly need him much this season, at least early on. If we had needed to get production from him, we would have found ways to use him, a specific package, a few plays for him to get familiar with. But since we weren't in a rush to get him on the field, I think we used a different approach. Keep him inactive or on the sideline and let him learn at his own pace. Other teams have used different approaches to suit their needs. For example, the Jets did play Stephen Hill early on. But he was limited in his route-running and knowledge of their offense, so the only play he had any kind of impact was on a go route. It's a choice: playing someone who will have a limited contribution, or let him learn. We chose the latter. A full offseason will do him good. It will give him a chance to hang out with coaches and other players and ask questions. I'm sure we'll see a much improved Jenkins in training camp. And he is a hand-catcher and a playmaker. He will get his opportunity and will show something. I just hope Crabtree could take a personal interest in him. Teach him routes, help him study the playbook. Those are the two main areas AJ needs to improve, I think. The two areas that have kept him off the field.


I hope you're right, because he possibly just had a worse rookie season than woods almost a decade ago. I also hope you're right because it seems to me that harbaugh is not afraid to make a hard decision, and if he cant force his way into the lineup consistently next year, i would not be surprised at all if he didnt make it back to the team on year 3.
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forge wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
I think Jenkins will break out. He just wasn't ready physically and mentally for the NFL, but with a full offseason and a show of confidence, I'm sure he will progress tremendously. He has all the foot talent and hand talent to be a very good receiver in the NFL. It's hard to tell if he has the work ethic to match, but if he puts in the effort, work on his routes, learn the playbook to the best of his capacities, he will get opportunities. If Harbaugh has shown anything, it's that he values players with solid grasp of the playbook. It's normal that a raw prospect from a non pro-stule school can be a little overwhelmed when coming in. The fact is, we didn't really truly need him much this season, at least early on. If we had needed to get production from him, we would have found ways to use him, a specific package, a few plays for him to get familiar with. But since we weren't in a rush to get him on the field, I think we used a different approach. Keep him inactive or on the sideline and let him learn at his own pace. Other teams have used different approaches to suit their needs. For example, the Jets did play Stephen Hill early on. But he was limited in his route-running and knowledge of their offense, so the only play he had any kind of impact was on a go route. It's a choice: playing someone who will have a limited contribution, or let him learn. We chose the latter. A full offseason will do him good. It will give him a chance to hang out with coaches and other players and ask questions. I'm sure we'll see a much improved Jenkins in training camp. And he is a hand-catcher and a playmaker. He will get his opportunity and will show something. I just hope Crabtree could take a personal interest in him. Teach him routes, help him study the playbook. Those are the two main areas AJ needs to improve, I think. The two areas that have kept him off the field.


I hope you're right, because he possibly just had a worse rookie season than woods almost a decade ago. I also hope you're right because it seems to me that harbaugh is not afraid to make a hard decision, and if he cant force his way into the lineup consistently next year, i would not be surprised at all if he didnt make it back to the team on year 3.



How many players really forced their way into our line up, under Harbaugh? We brought in Moss and Manningham with the intention of them being on the field. Last year, we brought in Rogers and Whitner with designs of them being on the field. Last year, we had arguably the worst combination of RG starters we could imagine, yet no one forced his way into the starting role, even though Boone was there and turned out to be a top-notch player. The thing is, in the offseason, our coaching staff makes up its mind and they have designs for everyone on the roster. It took tremendous suckage from Chilo to make a change at RG, not tremendous practice play from Adam Snyder. In the meantime, Braylon Edwards brought about the same amount of suckage, yet we kept playing him, because he was brought in to play. At some point, too much (or too little, in this case) is too much, and we cut him. This year, Brandon Jacobs couldn't force his way into being our 3rd string RB for most of the year. Really, there aren't many examples of players forcing their way into the line-up under Harbaugh. He has designs for the players and he tends to stick to his plan. Even with Kaepernick... my theory is that he was already outplaying Alex in practice. That wasn't enough to force his way into the starting line-up, it took an injury to get there. The thing is, when Harbaugh takes another step in his plan, he doesn't look back. Returning to Alex would have been a step back. You know what Harbaugh says: each day you have to get better, even just 1% better. He doesn't take step backwards. If he feels the best plan for Jenkins is to be patient with him, he won't move on to the next step prematurely unless he absolutely has to. And the way I see it, the plan was always to take it slowly with Jenkins, and give him a shot in 2013.

That may just be me being an optimist. It's just that, to me, it makes sense, in a Harbaugh kind of way. From a fan's perspective, it's frustrating. But we can't really argue with the Harbaugh way, so far, can we?
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49ersfan


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We may get 3 compensatory picks. If we do, that would take our total from 11 to 14 draft picks.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2013/1/27/3921838/nfl-draft-comp-picks-2013-49ers-compensatory-picks

Quote:
Every year, different people put in all kinds of work trying to figure out compensatory draft picks for each team. The folks at Blogging the Beast do some solid work with it, combined with that of AdamJT13. They've gone through all the details and attempted to project out the picks.

Based on their projections, the 49ers would be in line for three compensatory picks, with one coming in the fourth round and two coming in the seventh round. The picks are based on last year's free agency class, so it includes losses of Josh Morgan, Adam Snyder, Blake Costanzo and Madieu Williams, alongside the gain of Mario Manningham.
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

49ersfan wrote:
We may get 3 compensatory picks. If we do, that would take our total from 11 to 14 draft picks.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2013/1/27/3921838/nfl-draft-comp-picks-2013-49ers-compensatory-picks

Quote:
Every year, different people put in all kinds of work trying to figure out compensatory draft picks for each team. The folks at Blogging the Beast do some solid work with it, combined with that of AdamJT13. They've gone through all the details and attempted to project out the picks.

Based on their projections, the 49ers would be in line for three compensatory picks, with one coming in the fourth round and two coming in the seventh round. The picks are based on last year's free agency class, so it includes losses of Josh Morgan, Adam Snyder, Blake Costanzo and Madieu Williams, alongside the gain of Mario Manningham.



The Morgan loss and Manningham gain pretty much cancel each other. Costanzo and Williams probably fetch us 7th comp picks. Then, Snyder was signed to a fairly expensive contract and has played pretty much every down for the Cards this year. So I agree with 4th, at least. That's nice. Adam Snyder has been more valuable to us this year than last.
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iwentundrafted


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

49ersfan wrote:
We may get 3 compensatory picks. If we do, that would take our total from 11 to 14 draft picks.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2013/1/27/3921838/nfl-draft-comp-picks-2013-49ers-compensatory-picks

Quote:
Every year, different people put in all kinds of work trying to figure out compensatory draft picks for each team. The folks at Blogging the Beast do some solid work with it, combined with that of AdamJT13. They've gone through all the details and attempted to project out the picks.

Based on their projections, the 49ers would be in line for three compensatory picks, with one coming in the fourth round and two coming in the seventh round. The picks are based on last year's free agency class, so it includes losses of Josh Morgan, Adam Snyder, Blake Costanzo and Madieu Williams, alongside the gain of Mario Manningham.


With 14 picks I could see us making some moves come draft day.
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Psychlone


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iwentundrafted wrote:
49ersfan wrote:
We may get 3 compensatory picks. If we do, that would take our total from 11 to 14 draft picks.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2013/1/27/3921838/nfl-draft-comp-picks-2013-49ers-compensatory-picks

Quote:
Every year, different people put in all kinds of work trying to figure out compensatory draft picks for each team. The folks at Blogging the Beast do some solid work with it, combined with that of AdamJT13. They've gone through all the details and attempted to project out the picks.

Based on their projections, the 49ers would be in line for three compensatory picks, with one coming in the fourth round and two coming in the seventh round. The picks are based on last year's free agency class, so it includes losses of Josh Morgan, Adam Snyder, Blake Costanzo and Madieu Williams, alongside the gain of Mario Manningham.


With 14 picks I could see us making some moves come draft day.
If we do or don't package them, we still have the luxury of drafting some kickers later in the draft with the non tradeable comps to let them battle it out with Akers (assuming he doesn't miss any kicks Sunday and we leave his sorry arse in New Orleans).
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757-NINER


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
Forge wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
I think Jenkins will break out. He just wasn't ready physically and mentally for the NFL, but with a full offseason and a show of confidence, I'm sure he will progress tremendously. He has all the foot talent and hand talent to be a very good receiver in the NFL. It's hard to tell if he has the work ethic to match, but if he puts in the effort, work on his routes, learn the playbook to the best of his capacities, he will get opportunities. If Harbaugh has shown anything, it's that he values players with solid grasp of the playbook. It's normal that a raw prospect from a non pro-stule school can be a little overwhelmed when coming in. The fact is, we didn't really truly need him much this season, at least early on. If we had needed to get production from him, we would have found ways to use him, a specific package, a few plays for him to get familiar with. But since we weren't in a rush to get him on the field, I think we used a different approach. Keep him inactive or on the sideline and let him learn at his own pace. Other teams have used different approaches to suit their needs. For example, the Jets did play Stephen Hill early on. But he was limited in his route-running and knowledge of their offense, so the only play he had any kind of impact was on a go route. It's a choice: playing someone who will have a limited contribution, or let him learn. We chose the latter. A full offseason will do him good. It will give him a chance to hang out with coaches and other players and ask questions. I'm sure we'll see a much improved Jenkins in training camp. And he is a hand-catcher and a playmaker. He will get his opportunity and will show something. I just hope Crabtree could take a personal interest in him. Teach him routes, help him study the playbook. Those are the two main areas AJ needs to improve, I think. The two areas that have kept him off the field.


I hope you're right, because he possibly just had a worse rookie season than woods almost a decade ago. I also hope you're right because it seems to me that harbaugh is not afraid to make a hard decision, and if he cant force his way into the lineup consistently next year, i would not be surprised at all if he didnt make it back to the team on year 3.



How many players really forced their way into our line up, under Harbaugh? We brought in Moss and Manningham with the intention of them being on the field. Last year, we brought in Rogers and Whitner with designs of them being on the field. Last year, we had arguably the worst combination of RG starters we could imagine, yet no one forced his way into the starting role, even though Boone was there and turned out to be a top-notch player. The thing is, in the offseason, our coaching staff makes up its mind and they have designs for everyone on the roster. It took tremendous suckage from Chilo to make a change at RG, not tremendous practice play from Adam Snyder. In the meantime, Braylon Edwards brought about the same amount of suckage, yet we kept playing him, because he was brought in to play. At some point, too much (or too little, in this case) is too much, and we cut him. This year, Brandon Jacobs couldn't force his way into being our 3rd string RB for most of the year. Really, there aren't many examples of players forcing their way into the line-up under Harbaugh. He has designs for the players and he tends to stick to his plan. Even with Kaepernick... my theory is that he was already outplaying Alex in practice. That wasn't enough to force his way into the starting line-up, it took an injury to get there. The thing is, when Harbaugh takes another step in his plan, he doesn't look back. Returning to Alex would have been a step back. You know what Harbaugh says: each day you have to get better, even just 1% better. He doesn't take step backwards. If he feels the best plan for Jenkins is to be patient with him, he won't move on to the next step prematurely unless he absolutely has to. And the way I see it, the plan was always to take it slowly with Jenkins, and give him a shot in 2013.

That may just be me being an optimist. It's just that, to me, it makes sense, in a Harbaugh kind of way. From a fan's perspective, it's frustrating. But we can't really argue with the Harbaugh way, so far, can we?


Excellent analysis and one I agree with. Jenkins and LMJ were not really in the plans for this year. This was supposed to be basically a red-shirt year for them. A injury to Hunter and the dismissal of Jacobs forced LMJ on the field early and he's taken advantage of the opportunity. He was probably the more pro ready of the two. Jenkins, just from watching him in college and his physical statue coming into the league, I knew wasn't ready to contribute as a rookie. He's built like a PG, not a NFL WR. He needed to get stronger and adjust to the physical bump-n-run style of coverage. He didn't see a lot of press coverage in college and I knew it would take some time for him to develop. I'm not worry one bit. I think the kid still has tremendous upside and once he improves his core strength and his technigue, he will thrive. People need to trust Harbaalke. CK looked like a real project in TC as a rookie. A year and half later he leads this team to a SB. Now who saw that coming? Jenkins time will come.
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49ers Finest


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i agree with the point you made rudy.
its usually done in the offseason or because of injuries

but looking at wr, manningham who was our 2 (he got more snaps than moss) and kyle who was our 4.
but aj still is getting less playing time than ginn. and maybe even hall (dont know the numbers)
but im hoping everything you say was true. we need some wrs to step up
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely think we need to improve our defensive depth in next years draft. We had like 9 guys play 900+ snaps which tells me we need depth in the worst way. Only backups i feel confident in are Larry Grant and RJF and they're both UFA's. My opinion on our needs this draft (no specific order)

Tier 1- most important needs

- DE (depth and to replace Justin in a year or 2)
- NT (Sopo and RJF are FA's)
- WR (Quick slot guy who can make plays, danny amendola/wes welker type hopefully, although any kind of playmaker is welcome. punt returner)
-TE (Walker is a FA and drops too many balls, get some young blood for our 2 TE sets)
- K (to at least compete with Akers if not replace him outright)
- OLB (pass rushing depth)
- CB (db depth is always important IMO)
- S (Whitner is a FA in 1 year and we need a backup S anyway)

Tier 2- pure depth/luxury picks

- OL (depth)
-ILB (depth)
-QB (depth)
-RB? (luxury pick but can afford it)

We have 11 picks, could be 14 with comp picks. That's 9-12 positions, and we can use multiple picks at some (OL, OLB, etc). And not all picks will stick around either. I actually wouldn't mind trading down and grabbing more 2nd-3rd round picks to fill out the depth on our roster. Then with extra accumulated picks, try to trade 1 or 2 for future picks like we did last draft.

I'm behind trading up, but more small trade ups in the 2nd-3rd, not a massive Julio Jones type trade up in the 1st.
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blast


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
I think Jenkins will break out. He just wasn't ready physically and mentally for the NFL, but with a full offseason and a show of confidence, I'm sure he will progress tremendously. He has all the foot talent and hand talent to be a very good receiver in the NFL. It's hard to tell if he has the work ethic to match, but if he puts in the effort, work on his routes, learn the playbook to the best of his capacities, he will get opportunities. If Harbaugh has shown anything, it's that he values players with solid grasp of the playbook. It's normal that a raw prospect from a non pro-stule school can be a little overwhelmed when coming in. The fact is, we didn't really truly need him much this season, at least early on. If we had needed to get production from him, we would have found ways to use him, a specific package, a few plays for him to get familiar with. But since we weren't in a rush to get him on the field, I think we used a different approach. Keep him inactive or on the sideline and let him learn at his own pace. Other teams have used different approaches to suit their needs. For example, the Jets did play Stephen Hill early on. But he was limited in his route-running and knowledge of their offense, so the only play he had any kind of impact was on a go route. It's a choice: playing someone who will have a limited contribution, or let him learn. We chose the latter. A full offseason will do him good. It will give him a chance to hang out with coaches and other players and ask questions. I'm sure we'll see a much improved Jenkins in training camp. And he is a hand-catcher and a playmaker. He will get his opportunity and will show something. I just hope Crabtree could take a personal interest in him. Teach him routes, help him study the playbook. Those are the two main areas AJ needs to improve, I think. The two areas that have kept him off the field.



Wow. That is extremely lengthy, but all I read was, "JENKINS WILL BREAK OUT." Thats not really saying much after what he did during his first season. I understand what you mean though, since he took a while to really perform in college. Im sure I read somewhere with his coach saying that he's so hard on himself and that he tries so hard.

For our teams sake though, I really hope that it clicks for him during this off season. It did take Crabs a couple years...so I still have high hopes for AJ.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I'm not writing AJ off...I'm not too optimistic going forward. Last 1st that looked this lost was Balmer. I know we didn't need him to come in and produce right away like others in the past. But @ the same time we had injuries that made it possible for him to see the field and contribute. LMJ was a prime example. Once he got an opportunity he took it. With the Mario and Kyle injuries his opportunity came earlier than we thought. Honestly he just didn't seem ready for it...which is concerning seeing he is a 1st rd pick. Hopefully he gets stronger this off-season...he looks like he could break if he got hit. Laughing
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know he is made of glass but if we could get Danny amendola I would be so happy.
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sherm wrote:
While I'm not writing AJ off...I'm not too optimistic going forward. Last 1st that looked this lost was Balmer. I know we didn't need him to come in and produce right away like others in the past. But @ the same time we had injuries that made it possible for him to see the field and contribute. LMJ was a prime example. Once he got an opportunity he took it. With the Mario and Kyle injuries his opportunity came earlier than we thought. Honestly he just didn't seem ready for it...which is concerning seeing he is a 1st rd pick. Hopefully he gets stronger this off-season...he looks like he could break if he got hit. Laughing



There's a major difference between incorporating a RB into an offense and incorporating a WR. When you're a RB on running play, you know you're getting the ball. It's the design. A WR, you still have a 1 in 5 chance of getting the ball. A RB has to take advantage of his opportunities. A WR can suffer from circumstances a lot more. Considering AJ only played a handful of snaps and was only targetted once, that explains his not taking advantage of his opportunities. If Harbaugh really was intent in getting AJ involved, he would have designed plays especially to involve him, plays that isolate him and get him the ball. Quick screen, reverse or sending him deep. Many of our offensive plays are like chess, in that there players designed NOT to get the ball, but just to draw defenders away from whoever is to get the ball. In those plays, pawns are needed, players who will be sacrificed. So when Manningham and Williams got injured, more than an actual receiving option, a new pawn was required in order to help others make plays, in certain sets. So Jenkins was activated and saw minimal action. But we're primarily a two-TE team, so the need for AJ truly was minimal. And I don't think AJ can complain, if someone like VD hasn't really complained much after being a pawn himself for much of the year. A player sacrificed in order to help others make plays. I'm sure we could dissect Crabtree's 85 catches and see VD draw away a defender or two in a majority of them. Plays are designed that way. So, I think my point is valid: if Harbaugh had wanted to get AJ involved, he would have.
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NcFinest9erFan


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

neezy007 wrote:
I know he is made of glass but if we could get Danny amendola I would be so happy.


highly doubt that STL would let him walk. I see them giving him the franchise tag this off season.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are hopeful signs in A J Jenkins college career. He only caught 21 passes in his first two years at Illinois. From what I gather, he was on the brink of quitting before being dissuaded by his coach. His dramatic improvement to 56 catches in his junior year and 90 in his final season should tell us a lot about what we might see in the future. He doesn't sound like someone who's going to let this season dictate his future. He's been through the same sort of thing before.
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