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Forge


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:


He wasn't just a pro bowler, he was an all pro. That means he was one of the best safeties in the game. Maybe you think both the pro bowl and the all pro voting over-rated him, but you're going to have to come to grips with how much someone who knows more about this than you and I was willing to pay him. There's not one position in our front 7 where a rookie could beat out the current starter except NT. But our NT only plays a third of the plays and our FS plays all of the defensive snaps.

I've been saying for some time we need to get some young talent on our d-line, but not before we replace one of our starters that played virtually every defensive snap and who was a pro bowler, and all pro, and just got paid over $8 million a year by another team. If there's a DE that we think is just way better than whatever safeties are available then we might take him. But there's no way we're not using a high pick on a safety.


I agree. Even though I thought that there was no way that Dashon was worth that kind of money and that he was possibly a little overrated, he contributed on basically every defensive snap. It's a big hole to fill. I think that there are a couple of things working in our favor though; one, obviously, we have a ton of picks, and two, the areas we could need help or have holes to fill are fairly deep in what is otherwise a shallow draft class. with 5 picks in the first three rounds, there's no reason we can't get significant d-line help/rotational guys, a starting safety, and a second tight end. Walter football currently has us taking two safeties in the first three rounds, which, honestly, i kind of like (cyprien at the top of round 2, reid at the bottom of round three). I think we could easily replenish and restack the defense with 4 of those 5 picks, and take a second tight end with the fifth (escobar at the bottom of two, kelce or macdonald in round 3). That is of course, provided that we don't trade out of any of those spots for something next year.

Personally, i think our offense is good. I would want to take a flyer on Lattimore in like the fifth, and maybe a wide out in the 5-7 along with a developmental qb, but really, i like where our offense is, and i think it'll be plenty explosive enough next year, so I'm definitely in favor of taking as many of those first five picks and restacking the defense. Defense heavy in rounds 1-3, offense heavy in rounds 5-7 with whatever we want in round 4 (BPA).
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AndyLeesAunt


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just curious... Who would you guys prefer in the first.. David Amerson or Blidi Wreh Wilson? They both seem pretty big but other than that I don't know much about them
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AndyLeesAunt wrote:
Just curious... Who would you guys prefer in the first.. David Amerson or Blidi Wreh Wilson? They both seem pretty big but other than that I don't know much about them


In the first? Neither. Amerson is the better prospect, but he's a day 2 pick at best. Wilson's a day 3 guy.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AndyLeesAunt wrote:
Just curious... Who would you guys prefer in the first.. David Amerson or Blidi Wreh Wilson? They both seem pretty big but other than that I don't know much about them


Definitely neither. I dislike amerson a ton, though our staff seems to like him. I don't think he has the coverage skills to be an NFL corner. Also can't tackle. Wilson is more of alate second or third round prospect

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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forge wrote:
AndyLeesAunt wrote:
Just curious... Who would you guys prefer in the first.. David Amerson or Blidi Wreh Wilson? They both seem pretty big but other than that I don't know much about them


Definitely neither. I dislike amerson a ton, though our staff seems to like him. I don't think he has the coverage skills to be an NFL corner. Also can't tackle. Wilson is more of alate second or third round prospect

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Same was said of Chris Culliver.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
Forge wrote:
AndyLeesAunt wrote:
Just curious... Who would you guys prefer in the first.. David Amerson or Blidi Wreh Wilson? They both seem pretty big but other than that I don't know much about them


Definitely neither. I dislike amerson a ton, though our staff seems to like him. I don't think he has the coverage skills to be an NFL corner. Also can't tackle. Wilson is more of alate second or third round prospect

*edit*
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Same was said of Chris Culliver.


And I'd say that the jury is still out on whether its true or not. I'm still not convinced that his best position isn't free safety. He has looked very good at times, and very bad sometimes. Inconsistency is to be expected, of course, given his youth and lack of experience at the position. This year will tell us a lot I imagine. There have been many times where I have been impressed with his coverage skills though. Still culliver and amerson aren't the same prospect. The "can't cover, better to move to safety" stigma gets attached to a dozen cornerback prospects every year; sometimes rightly and sometimes incorrectly. I don't know if amerson is fluid enough, or instinctive enough. He gambles too much, gets burned a lot, and is not a great tackler. He's a bit of a ball hawk, yes, but his 13 interceptions two years ago speak volumes about him as a corner; both positively and negatively
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forge wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
Forge wrote:
AndyLeesAunt wrote:
Just curious... Who would you guys prefer in the first.. David Amerson or Blidi Wreh Wilson? They both seem pretty big but other than that I don't know much about them


Definitely neither. I dislike amerson a ton, though our staff seems to like him. I don't think he has the coverage skills to be an NFL corner. Also can't tackle. Wilson is more of alate second or third round prospect

*edit*
Yay for post 1000 Lol



Same was said of Chris Culliver.


And I'd say that the jury is still out on whether its true or not. I'm still not convinced that his best position isn't free safety. He has looked very good at times, and very bad sometimes. Inconsistency is to be expected, of course, given his youth and lack of experience at the position. This year will tell us a lot I imagine. There have been many times where I have been impressed with his coverage skills though. Still culliver and amerson aren't the same prospect. The "can't cover, better to move to safety" stigma gets attached to a dozen cornerback prospects every year; sometimes rightly and sometimes incorrectly. I don't know if amerson is fluid enough, or instinctive enough. He gambles too much, gets burned a lot, and is not a great tackler. He's a bit of a ball hawk, yes, but his 13 interceptions two years ago speak volumes about him as a corner; both positively and negatively



How can 13 interceptions possibly speak negatively of his play?

If we look at Culliver, we see inconsistencies. But look at when he had his bad games. Everyone around him was probably having bad games at the same time. He struggled against the Seahawks(2) and the giants.. just like everybody else on the field those days. He struggled in the playoffs... while everyone else in the secondary was struggling as well (lack of pass rush). We can talk about his inconsistencies because he's young? Veterans on our team have had very similar inconsistencies. Tarrell Brown gives out one long pass and everyone's looking to replace him, all of a sudden. Everyone but a few players in the league will have a bad game here and there. But objectively, QBs had a QB rating around 76 when throwing at Culliver, this year, and that's with a couple of games inflating the stat. He has been good in coverage, and just as inconsistent as anyone else on our D.

We could bring in a corner, and he will have inconsistencies. The instant "shutdown corner" dream is just that, a dream. The Revises and Shermans and Baileys are rare things. You can't really count on the draft to solve your corner issues. You draft corners with flaws and hope they develop into great players. That's all.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:

How can 13 interceptions possibly speak negatively of his play?

If we look at Culliver, we see inconsistencies. But look at when he had his bad games. Everyone around him was probably having bad games at the same time. He struggled against the Seahawks(2) and the giants.. just like everybody else on the field those days. He struggled in the playoffs... while everyone else in the secondary was struggling as well (lack of pass rush). We can talk about his inconsistencies because he's young? Veterans on our team have had very similar inconsistencies. Tarrell Brown gives out one long pass and everyone's looking to replace him, all of a sudden. Everyone but a few players in the league will have a bad game here and there. But objectively, QBs had a QB rating around 76 when throwing at Culliver, this year, and that's with a couple of games inflating the stat. He has been good in coverage, and just as inconsistent as anyone else on our D.

We could bring in a corner, and he will have inconsistencies. The instant "shutdown corner" dream is just that, a dream. The Revises and Shermans and Baileys are rare things. You can't really count on the draft to solve your corner issues. You draft corners with flaws and hope they develop into great players. That's all.


13 picks tells me that he's baiting qbs and trying to get them to throw at him rather than just focusing on trying to cover his receiver. I'm not a fan of that. In the NFL, the qbs will carve you up. On the positive side, he does have unbelievable hands. Its a coach able thing, but the 13 picks tells me a lot.

I'm not sure who's asking to get rid of brown; I think he's our best corner. I wish he was about 3 inches taller, but thats it. To get rid of him would be foolish though in my opinion.

Yes, everyone is inconsistent. It happens. Just tends to happen a lot less frequently with a few years experience, that's all I was saying. I'm very hopeful with culliver; I think he has the potential to be a very very good corner but he's definitely not there yet. He also has the potential to be a very good free safety in my opinion.

I'm not looking for a shutdown guy, but if we are looking at a corner on the first or early in the second, I want him to have the potential to be a solid number one or two. I dont think amerson is that guy. Just my own feeling on him as a prospect.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forge wrote:
rudyZ wrote:

How can 13 interceptions possibly speak negatively of his play?

If we look at Culliver, we see inconsistencies. But look at when he had his bad games. Everyone around him was probably having bad games at the same time. He struggled against the Seahawks(2) and the giants.. just like everybody else on the field those days. He struggled in the playoffs... while everyone else in the secondary was struggling as well (lack of pass rush). We can talk about his inconsistencies because he's young? Veterans on our team have had very similar inconsistencies. Tarrell Brown gives out one long pass and everyone's looking to replace him, all of a sudden. Everyone but a few players in the league will have a bad game here and there. But objectively, QBs had a QB rating around 76 when throwing at Culliver, this year, and that's with a couple of games inflating the stat. He has been good in coverage, and just as inconsistent as anyone else on our D.

We could bring in a corner, and he will have inconsistencies. The instant "shutdown corner" dream is just that, a dream. The Revises and Shermans and Baileys are rare things. You can't really count on the draft to solve your corner issues. You draft corners with flaws and hope they develop into great players. That's all.


13 picks tells me that he's baiting qbs and trying to get them to throw at him rather than just focusing on trying to cover his receiver. I'm not a fan of that. In the NFL, the qbs will carve you up. On the positive side, he does have unbelievable hands. Its a coach able thing, but the 13 picks tells me a lot.

I'm not sure who's asking to get rid of brown; I think he's our best corner. I wish he was about 3 inches taller, but thats it. To get rid of him would be foolish though in my opinion.

Yes, everyone is inconsistent. It happens. Just tends to happen a lot less frequently with a few years experience, that's all I was saying. I'm very hopeful with culliver; I think he has the potential to be a very very good corner but he's definitely not there yet. He also has the potential to be a very good free safety in my opinion.

I'm not looking for a shutdown guy, but if we are looking at a corner on the first or early in the second, I want him to have the potential to be a solid number one or two. I dont think amerson is that guy. Just my own feeling on him as a prospect.



I don't think anyone is really looking at Amerson as a first rounder, though. At this stage in the year, there are about 50 first rounders, and in a month, I'm fairly confident only 32 of them will be. In the numbers game, Amerson is, therefore, not a first rounder. So, if we get him, it should be with the late second, and at that point in the draft, taking a chance on someone with huge potential is worth it.

About Brown, I was only making an example of how people overreact to so-called "struggles" that are common to almost all professional athletes. It's unfair to call out inconsistencies outside of the context, and unless you've watched each of Amerson's games and understand the context of those games, I think calling him inconsistent is unfair. Even more unfair if you categorize his style of play off pure stats. He had 13 INTs, therefore he must be a gambler, is that it? If our FO intends to take any player early, you can be sure they have watched, dissected and analysed a bunch of games, not only to assess their abilities, but the context that led to their production. The further you go in the draft, it's more likely the amount of gametape-watching lessens, and then your pick is more of a gamble, but at a lesser cost. But if Amerson is truly a guy we're looking at early, I trust the front office and coaching staff to have determined his "inconsistencies" were due to circumstances, not him personally.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ, I am sending a girl over. You need to cheer up, yo.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:


I don't think anyone is really looking at Amerson as a first rounder, though. At this stage in the year, there are about 50 first rounders, and in a month, I'm fairly confident only 32 of them will be. In the numbers game, Amerson is, therefore, not a first rounder. So, if we get him, it should be with the late second, and at that point in the draft, taking a chance on someone with huge potential is worth it.

About Brown, I was only making an example of how people overreact to so-called "struggles" that are common to almost all professional athletes. It's unfair to call out inconsistencies outside of the context, and unless you've watched each of Amerson's games and understand the context of those games, I think calling him inconsistent is unfair. Even more unfair if you categorize his style of play off pure stats. He had 13 INTs, therefore he must be a gambler, is that it? If our FO intends to take any player early, you can be sure they have watched, dissected and analysed a bunch of games, not only to assess their abilities, but the context that led to their production. The further you go in the draft, it's more likely the amount of gametape-watching lessens, and then your pick is more of a gamble, but at a lesser cost. But if Amerson is truly a guy we're looking at early, I trust the front office and coaching staff to have determined his "inconsistencies" were due to circumstances, not him personally.


the question asked that I was answering was who did I prefer in the first from AndyLeesAunt. I answered the question with using our first round pick on amerson (or wilson) in mind. Amerson is not without some very promising abilities in some regards, but would i prefer to use a first on him? no way. that's how i was answering the question and expounding as to why i felt that way. I feel like his game has too many holes right now and feel as though in the first we can get someone who can come in and contribute, if not start, right away and be solid. I don't feel like Amerson is that type of prospect.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know. I know. It probably won't happen. And the guys won't fall that far...
But if they did! I would cry in happiness. Laughing

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=15963833#15963833
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forge wrote:
rudyZ wrote:


I don't think anyone is really looking at Amerson as a first rounder, though. At this stage in the year, there are about 50 first rounders, and in a month, I'm fairly confident only 32 of them will be. In the numbers game, Amerson is, therefore, not a first rounder. So, if we get him, it should be with the late second, and at that point in the draft, taking a chance on someone with huge potential is worth it.

About Brown, I was only making an example of how people overreact to so-called "struggles" that are common to almost all professional athletes. It's unfair to call out inconsistencies outside of the context, and unless you've watched each of Amerson's games and understand the context of those games, I think calling him inconsistent is unfair. Even more unfair if you categorize his style of play off pure stats. He had 13 INTs, therefore he must be a gambler, is that it? If our FO intends to take any player early, you can be sure they have watched, dissected and analysed a bunch of games, not only to assess their abilities, but the context that led to their production. The further you go in the draft, it's more likely the amount of gametape-watching lessens, and then your pick is more of a gamble, but at a lesser cost. But if Amerson is truly a guy we're looking at early, I trust the front office and coaching staff to have determined his "inconsistencies" were due to circumstances, not him personally.


the question asked that I was answering was who did I prefer in the first from AndyLeesAunt. I answered the question with using our first round pick on amerson (or wilson) in mind. Amerson is not without some very promising abilities in some regards, but would i prefer to use a first on him? no way. that's how i was answering the question and expounding as to why i felt that way. I feel like his game has too many holes right now and feel as though in the first we can get someone who can come in and contribute, if not start, right away and be solid. I don't feel like Amerson is that type of prospect.


I think Amerson may be looked at as a Safety (I'm certain I am not the first to say that) and it seems to me that may not be far fetched. He may be the best ball-hawk in this draft. I certainly would not mind having him roam our secondary looking to snatch INTs. I doubt he will go in the 1st, though. Probably 2nd.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrissooner49er wrote:
Forge wrote:
rudyZ wrote:


I don't think anyone is really looking at Amerson as a first rounder, though. At this stage in the year, there are about 50 first rounders, and in a month, I'm fairly confident only 32 of them will be. In the numbers game, Amerson is, therefore, not a first rounder. So, if we get him, it should be with the late second, and at that point in the draft, taking a chance on someone with huge potential is worth it.

About Brown, I was only making an example of how people overreact to so-called "struggles" that are common to almost all professional athletes. It's unfair to call out inconsistencies outside of the context, and unless you've watched each of Amerson's games and understand the context of those games, I think calling him inconsistent is unfair. Even more unfair if you categorize his style of play off pure stats. He had 13 INTs, therefore he must be a gambler, is that it? If our FO intends to take any player early, you can be sure they have watched, dissected and analysed a bunch of games, not only to assess their abilities, but the context that led to their production. The further you go in the draft, it's more likely the amount of gametape-watching lessens, and then your pick is more of a gamble, but at a lesser cost. But if Amerson is truly a guy we're looking at early, I trust the front office and coaching staff to have determined his "inconsistencies" were due to circumstances, not him personally.


the question asked that I was answering was who did I prefer in the first from AndyLeesAunt. I answered the question with using our first round pick on amerson (or wilson) in mind. Amerson is not without some very promising abilities in some regards, but would i prefer to use a first on him? no way. that's how i was answering the question and expounding as to why i felt that way. I feel like his game has too many holes right now and feel as though in the first we can get someone who can come in and contribute, if not start, right away and be solid. I don't feel like Amerson is that type of prospect.


I think Amerson may be looked at as a Safety (I'm certain I am not the first to say that) and it seems to me that may not be far fetched. He may be the best ball-hawk in this draft. I certainly would not mind having him roam our secondary looking to snatch INTs. I doubt he will go in the 1st, though. Probably 2nd.


I could see him as a solid center fielder, especially with his ball Hawking prowess. Plus, he has amazing hands. I'd just want him to sure up his tackling and be a little more willing. I wouldn't mind him at the bottom of the second (especially since our second is basically a third and our third is high enough to almost be a second, so there is little difference between taking someone at the bottom of two or the top of three), though I still don't love him as a prospect. I think there's definitely enough to work with though.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Forge"]
Chrissooner49er wrote:
Forge wrote:
rudyZ wrote:


I don't think anyone is really looking at Amerson as a first rounder, though. At this stage in the year, there are about 50 first rounders, and in a month, I'm fairly confident only 32 of them will be. In the numbers game, Amerson is, therefore, not a first rounder. So, if we get him, it should be with the late second, and at that point in the draft, taking a chance on someone with huge potential is worth it.

the question asked that I was answering was who did I prefer in the first from AndyLeesAunt. I answered the question with using our first round pick on amerson (or wilson) in mind. Amerson is not without some very promising abilities in some regards, but would i prefer to use a first on him? no way. that's how i was answering the question and expounding as to why i felt that way. I feel like his game has too many holes right now and feel as though in the first we can get someone who can come in and contribute, if not start, right away and be solid. I don't feel like Amerson is that type of prospect.


I think Amerson may be looked at as a Safety (I'm certain I am not the first to say that) and it seems to me that may not be far fetched. He may be the best ball-hawk in this draft. I certainly would not mind having him roam our secondary looking to snatch INTs. I doubt he will go in the 1st, though. Probably 2nd.


I could see him as a solid center fielder, especially with his ball Hawking prowess. Plus, he has amazing hands. I'd just want him to sure up his tackling and be a little more willing. I wouldn't mind him at the bottom of the second (especially since our second is basically a third and our third is high enough to almost be a second, so there is little difference between taking someone at the bottom of two or the top of three), though I still don't love him as a prospect. I think there's definitely enough to work with though.


Yes, his tackling needs work and he needs to roam (or jam at the line) because those faster WRs can get separation from him.
And I definitely agree on the assessment of our 2nd/3rd round picks. Our 1st is so low it is basically a 2nd also.
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