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BJ Raji or Greg Jennings
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TT can afford to keep one of these guys with a big next contract: which one do YOU pay?
Jennings
22%
 22%  [ 12 ]
Raji
77%
 77%  [ 42 ]
Total Votes : 54

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incognito_man


Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

boratt wrote:

I think this could very well be the case. DJ Williams caught everything thrown his way all camp. The last receiving weapons who had that kind of camp were Greg Jennings and Randall Cobb. The other most recent is Jarett Boykin. Jordy was that way this camp. He didn't get much hype early in his career, so I don't know what kind of a young player he was. Jones had that kind of camp this year too. I expect a big year from him.

I'm seeing a pattern where guys who catch every ball in camp tend to:

A. Know where they're supposed to be and when they're supposed to be there so the ball isn't a surprise.

and

B. Catch the ball when they have the opportunity.


I've been a Packer fan all of my life, but a student of the game the last 7 or 8 years. I think catching every ball is a very positive sign for a receiving weapon. A sign that even in camp, you can take something from. With DJ Williams on the brink of what I think is going to be a really good Packer career, Finley's value goes down more than it already has.

Finley is guilty of failing to meet requirement A. He is not where he is supposed to be and if he is he's not there when he's supposed to be. As a result, he seems to be caught off guard by a lot of passes, leading to a lot of drops. Also, AR shakes his head more after Finley routes than he does all other Packers receivers combined. Also, a guy I work with was at the game said when Jones scored his TD, Finley came running out to celebrate. AR, GJ, JJ all turned their backs on him and walked away. He's not a positive member of that locker room.


Long story short, I think you very well could be on to something here. Although JF's potential as a TE is so attractive, it's hard to give up, the reality is, is production just doesn't meet the hype. GJ on the other hand, he earns his dough. If it's a Finley for Jennings proposition, I go Jennings every time. It's not on pure physical talent, it's his effect on the field. J-mike has enough negative effect that his postive effect is diminished. GJ has such little negative effect, that his positive effect can be taken at full value.

GJ all the way. That's my call.


Good read, I agree with much of this.

A separate thought...Anyone else think there's a very good chance that Cobb is our leading receptions leader (by a significant margin) by season's end?

He looks like a Percy Harvin/Wes Welker mix out there right now. Man is going to be an incredible weapon in the postseason - I was stoked at the time of the pick and am even more stoked now. I think there's a good chance he could be our 3rd or 4th most valuable player by year's end.
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ECPackers


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OH yah.



i wasn't sold on cobb... still am not sold on his ball control. its pretty bad.


but he is so dynamic. he can easily have 100 touches if he is in enough snaps.
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ECPackers


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ajdodge09 wrote:
If we actually do end up having to choose, Raji is the only answer. Anyone who says Jennings is just flat out wrong. Look at out DLine without Raji. CJ Wilson, Pickett, and Worthy are starting. That's laughable. We've yet to see if Worthy can develop into a dominant player, but as of right now that's in the running for worst Dline in the league. WRs without Jennings? Nelson, Cobb, Jones, Boykin (who looked great in the preseason, I think he could be a legit #4 with Rodgers throwing to him). And that is assuming Driver retires after this year, and also isn't even including Finley. That's still plenty of weapons to make things happen. If we keep Jennings over Raji then I'll just assume TT&MM don't give a damn about the defense at all, which I know isn't true.




you guys are missing the whole entire point.


raji is NOT helping our defense.

our defense is SO bad, you could have deion sanders out there, and cut him, and you wouldn't notice the loss because everything we are doing on D isn't working. AT ALL....if raji leaves, you wouldn't even notice. not one single bit.

if jennings leaves, our offense takes an immediate hit. '
'
and THAT is the right answer.


do i think we'll keep jennings? no, probably not. but i'd rather him than raji!
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spilltray


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ECPackers wrote:
ajdodge09 wrote:
If we actually do end up having to choose, Raji is the only answer. Anyone who says Jennings is just flat out wrong. Look at out DLine without Raji. CJ Wilson, Pickett, and Worthy are starting. That's laughable. We've yet to see if Worthy can develop into a dominant player, but as of right now that's in the running for worst Dline in the league. WRs without Jennings? Nelson, Cobb, Jones, Boykin (who looked great in the preseason, I think he could be a legit #4 with Rodgers throwing to him). And that is assuming Driver retires after this year, and also isn't even including Finley. That's still plenty of weapons to make things happen. If we keep Jennings over Raji then I'll just assume TT&MM don't give a damn about the defense at all, which I know isn't true.




you guys are missing the whole entire point.


raji is NOT helping our defense.

our defense is SO bad, you could have deion sanders out there, and cut him, and you wouldn't notice the loss because everything we are doing on D isn't working. AT ALL....if raji leaves, you wouldn't even notice. not one single bit.

if jennings leaves, our offense takes an immediate hit. '
'
and THAT is the right answer.


do i think we'll keep jennings? no, probably not. but i'd rather him than raji!


Holy hyperbole Batman!

Seriously, if you believe that you are delusional. Just because the offense is good and the defense is bad, doesn't mean that the defensive players must be worse than the offensive ones. I'd like to see Raji shine more, but given the number of snaps he generally plays I'm more than OK with what he brings to the table at NT. If you really think you could line up anyone there and it wouldn't make matters worlds worse, you are kidding yourself.

Jennings leaving the offense would be a barely noticeable blip. If Raji left the defense, then maybe it would start to get as historically bad as you seem to think it is already.
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SDN40


Joined: 13 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whether this whole thing is a valid question or not, some people need to stop thinking with their Playstation controller and start using their brain instead
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Sandybaby716


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ECPackers wrote:
ajdodge09 wrote:
If we actually do end up having to choose, Raji is the only answer. Anyone who says Jennings is just flat out wrong. Look at out DLine without Raji. CJ Wilson, Pickett, and Worthy are starting. That's laughable. We've yet to see if Worthy can develop into a dominant player, but as of right now that's in the running for worst Dline in the league. WRs without Jennings? Nelson, Cobb, Jones, Boykin (who looked great in the preseason, I think he could be a legit #4 with Rodgers throwing to him). And that is assuming Driver retires after this year, and also isn't even including Finley. That's still plenty of weapons to make things happen. If we keep Jennings over Raji then I'll just assume TT&MM don't give a damn about the defense at all, which I know isn't true.




you guys are missing the whole entire point.


raji is NOT helping our defense.

our defense is SO bad, you could have deion sanders out there, and cut him, and you wouldn't notice the loss because everything we are doing on D isn't working. AT ALL....if raji leaves, you wouldn't even notice. not one single bit.

if jennings leaves, our offense takes an immediate hit. '
'
and THAT is the right answer.


do i think we'll keep jennings? no, probably not. but i'd rather him than raji!




Let's lay off it. Frankly, I don't see how you can feel this way about Raji. He's merely outperformed just about every other 3-4 NT over the past couple of seasons. People expect 10 sacks a year for him, it's ridiculous. Not the most stout in the league, but he gets the job done. With a lowered snap count he should be deadly this season.
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rbens06


Joined: 07 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNPackfan32 wrote:
rbens06 wrote:
ajdodge09 wrote:
CentralFC wrote:
ajdodge09 wrote:
If we actually do end up having to choose, Raji is the only answer. Anyone who says Jennings is just flat out wrong. Look at out DLine without Raji. CJ Wilson, Pickett, and Worthy are starting. That's laughable. We've yet to see if Worthy can develop into a dominant player, but as of right now that's in the running for worst Dline in the league. WRs without Jennings? Nelson, Cobb, Jones, Boykin (who looked great in the preseason, I think he could be a legit #4 with Rodgers throwing to him). And that is assuming Driver retires after this year, and also isn't even including Finley. That's still plenty of weapons to make things happen. If we keep Jennings over Raji then I'll just assume TT&MM don't give a damn about the defense at all, which I know isn't true.


It's not even what we have currently. It's availability in general. There aren't a lot of options and we're fortunate to have a young NT heading into his prime. It's more difficult, exponentially so, to replace a 330 pound and agile nose tackle than it is to replace a solid wide receiver (see: Cobb, Randall).

I agree with you completely. But my god, some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that 330 pound beasts aren't coming into the draft by the dozens.


Exactly. If Raji walks, NT instantly becomes our #1 need by a large margin, which is very difficult to fill. We got pretty lucky that as soon as we switched to a 3-4 there was a great NT prospect slotted right at our draft position. A lot of people think those are just normal guys in every draft.


I agree with picking Raji, but just to play devils advocate here we still would have a viable nose in Pickett. He did play nose Raji's rookie year when he was hurt and when Raji played some end. I know he was slatted to play NT when we drafted him, but Pickett did a decent job at nose. Developing Wilson as the run stuffer to replace Pickett's end spot and developing Worthy to play a similar role as Jenkins did when he was here is not a terrible line. Now, LIS I agree that we keep Raji because he is a better nose than Pickett and as mentioned by others he is still going to improve, but it's not like we would be left with no nose if we didn't resign Raji. I do agree that NTs don't grow on trees and we would still need to find a long term solution, but I don't think we would have to be in panick mode.
It isn't about Pickett being able to play NT, its the fact he can't play the snaps Raji can, and he can't add the pass rush Raji does. And Pickett will be 33 in a couple weeks. Like somebody said earlier, if Raji leaves NT becomes by far our biggest position of need.


LIS at the beginning I am a proponent of keeping Raji, a guy like that is hard to find and has what looks like to be a bright future. I guess my main point is that we do have a proven nose on the team behind Raji that can get us through a couple of seasons (assuming Pickett would play that long) if we decided to part ways with Raji. Maybe I read this the wrong way, but I got the feel that it was coming across that if Raji was to leave it would be like our offense loosing Rodgers, which I do not think is the case at all. Is Raji important to our defense, yes, but do I think he makes the defense go (when it actually does go) not necessarily, or at least not to the point Rodgers makes the offense go. A big guy like Pickett will still demand double teams and still allow us to scheme Matthews/Perry free on blitzes. As you mention Pickett would not offer a pass rush from inside, but he would occupy blockers to allow the ends like Worthy, Neal, Wilson among others to collapse the pocket.

Raji has a high snap count, but it is not necessarily a high Nose snap count. He gets a lot of his snaps through the 2 lineman set as well, something that Pickett would probably still not be a part of if we did use Pickett at Nose. We would probably see more Worthy, Daniels, Neal combinations on two man fronts or a possible 3-3-5 look for a nickel.
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ajdodge09


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ECPackers wrote:
ajdodge09 wrote:
If we actually do end up having to choose, Raji is the only answer. Anyone who says Jennings is just flat out wrong. Look at out DLine without Raji. CJ Wilson, Pickett, and Worthy are starting. That's laughable. We've yet to see if Worthy can develop into a dominant player, but as of right now that's in the running for worst Dline in the league. WRs without Jennings? Nelson, Cobb, Jones, Boykin (who looked great in the preseason, I think he could be a legit #4 with Rodgers throwing to him). And that is assuming Driver retires after this year, and also isn't even including Finley. That's still plenty of weapons to make things happen. If we keep Jennings over Raji then I'll just assume TT&MM don't give a damn about the defense at all, which I know isn't true.




you guys are missing the whole entire point.


raji is NOT helping our defense.

our defense is SO bad, you could have deion sanders out there, and cut him, and you wouldn't notice the loss because everything we are doing on D isn't working. AT ALL....if raji leaves, you wouldn't even notice. not one single bit.

if jennings leaves, our offense takes an immediate hit. '
'
and THAT is the right answer.


do i think we'll keep jennings? no, probably not. but i'd rather him than raji!


So let me get this straight...you're saying our defense is so bad that we should just give up on it? Okay good plan.
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Polaris


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As regards the belief that our defense is so bad that it doesn't matter if Raji is on it or not, 8 or 9 teams scored more points than the 49ers did last Sunday. So I guess there's a lot of bad defenses out there, huh?

Raji would be a very, very difficult guy to replace. He stays healthy and plays about every snap. On Akers' long field goal, he was the only guy who got his hands up. He's a very good player, his best football is probably ahead of him, and unless we're stupid we'll have his service for quite a while.

Jennings, on the other hand, is more replaceable. He's already been supplanted by Jordy Nelson as our biggest threat. And the ballpark range for his new deal will start at about $10 million/year.....that's a lot of cash for a guy who'll be on the bad side of 30 during the majority of the contract.

I think that Nelson and Cobb will be the nucleus of our passing attack for a while, and I think Jones will be a good supplementary piece. But it wouldn't surprise me a single bit to see both Jennings and Finley play someplace else next year.

Thompson inherited an old team and a tight salary cap. He's not going to let that happen again. This isn't about Jennings ability, or what he means to the team; it's about Thompson's philosophy of team building. He favors younger players. Right now, our only key player over 30 is Woodson. But if we resign all the guys that people are going to want to sign we're going to be looking at about 10 guys who are 30+ in a few years and making big coin.

Not going to happen. We are going to see good, well-liked players leave in free agency and be replaced by younger, cheaper players.
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incognito_man


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heck, I wouldn't mind seeing Jennings traded this season for a stud safety Smile

Seattle? Kansas City? San Diego?
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justo


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

incognito_man wrote:
Heck, I wouldn't mind seeing Jennings traded this season for a stud safety Smile

Seattle? Kansas City? San Diego?


:mentally runs through mock drafts:
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EB29


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

incognito_man wrote:
Heck, I wouldn't mind seeing Jennings traded this season for a stud safety Smile

Seattle? Kansas City? San Diego?

You cannot have Eric! But Abe Elam for Jennings...yes plz
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TedThompson


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EB29 wrote:
incognito_man wrote:
Heck, I wouldn't mind seeing Jennings traded this season for a stud safety Smile

Seattle? Kansas City? San Diego?

You cannot have Eric! But Abe Elam for Jennings...yes plz

Not Eric Berry?
That's okay... there are some past pre-draft faves at safety who we should be able to get for him:

Taylor Mays
Kenny Phillips
Brandon Merriweather
Michael Huff......
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Kampman74


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TedThompson wrote:
EB29 wrote:
incognito_man wrote:
Heck, I wouldn't mind seeing Jennings traded this season for a stud safety Smile

Seattle? Kansas City? San Diego?

You cannot have Eric! But Abe Elam for Jennings...yes plz

Not Eric Berry?
That's okay... there are some past pre-draft faves at safety who we should be able to get for him:

Taylor Mays
Kenny Phillips
Brandon Merriweather
Michael Huff......


Are they giving us a lot of draft picks, too?
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chucknorris101


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

im having to defend raji as being good at all to packer fans in a chat...wth are stats all people care about?
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