Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Jeff Ireland On the Hot Seat
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Miami Dolphins
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Mercury22


Most Valuable Poster (1st Ballot)

Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 12817
Location: the 50 yard line
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think what I'm calling for is radical in anyway. Its commonplace, in fact. Most teams have an org-chart similar to the one I'm suggesting. Heck, we have the org-chart I'm calling for, it's just that our GM supposedly has abdicated the vision portion of the plan to his head coach. Who knows, maybe Ireland chose Philbin because he believed entirely in Philbin's style of play. Maybe Ross chose Philbin and Ireland just got to sit in on the interview. Maybe Ireland picked Philbin because every wants a piece of the dominant team in the NFL and the Packers have certainly been one of the dominant teams. I dunno. What I do know is that I would prefer a GM that doesn't have an excuse to hide behind.

As for the likelihood of finding a GM like the one I've described, I would say this. The Miami Dolphins were once a very proud organization with an incredible tradition of winning games. I have no interest in being mired in mediocrity. I EXPECT exceptional people in the drivers seat of the Dolphins organization . If Ireland isn't EXCEPTIONAL, then lets move on. I'd assert the right decision was to have pulled the entire band-aid off in one quick yank, taking Sparano and Ireland all off at once, and moving on with a new GM with a vision and the coach of his choosing. Ross screwed the whole thing up though and now leaves us in a tricky spot. If we go 0-16, Ireland should certainly be canned, shouldn't he? If he isn't the fan base, which is a LOT less patient than the rabid fans we have on this site, will undoubtedly be calling for Ireland's seat. Won't they? However, does the new GM then come in and live with Philbin? If he does, then we have the same situation as we have had. A GM who isn't the one bringing the vision of the team to the table. Its a messy deal.
_________________
"22 players are involved in every football play. To value precisely the activity of one of them, it is first necessary to account for the actions of the other 21"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Daryl


Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 492
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Jaytotha wrote:

JI is a guy that is afraid to pull the trigger in my opinion which is not the makes for a good GM. I would rather a GM pull the trigger and fail then not pull it and them succeed elsewhere. He is quick to trade players away but can't bring them in


When did he not pull the trigger??? An example please, Kyle Orton, Kevin Kolb, Matt Flynn, trade three drafts to draft RG3??? I'm curious what exactly your talking about because I think we can all agree those were all good decisions. Secondly it takes two to make any trade and someone has to concede or at least make the other team think they're getting the better deal no one makes trades that they feel like they're getting screwed in.

I would also say he has done his fair share of failing primarily in the draft. No one hits all the time and his draft record to date isn't great he most definitely needs to do better mainly in rounds 2-7. I think he does a great job finding guys off the scrap heap but teams are built after round 1. UDFA Bess, Shelby, Samuda, 7-11, Marlon Moore I'm it goes on and on plus for some reason he can find guys at the end of the draft with ability but not in rounds 2-5 that's puzzling.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cddolphin


Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 6645
Location: Gainesville, FL
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maddogg wrote:
I drink heavily I love everybody even inanimate objects, but not Jeff Ireland. I go to sleep dreaming of Dan Marino and Don Shula but not Jeff Ireland. There's something that's causing the universe to drift out of balance....I think its Jeff Ireland.


Hilarious.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
green4gulf


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 2267
Location: TN, by way of Palm Beach FL
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Recently watching Hard Knox, I learned that JI was the ball boy ( or whatever lol ) for the '85 Bears.

Old Dolphins fans ( like myself ) probably remember watching us whoop the '85 Bears to give them their only defeat of the season....and protect the only "undefeated team image" of the '72 Dolphins. At the time, it was a pretty big deal since it was a Monday Night Game and the Bears came into the Orange Bowl at 12-0.

I just can't help but think how the members of that '85 Bears team sure appear to have gotten the last laugh on us by implanting this turd in our Organization LoL.

IMO Ireland never had the qualifications to be a GM, despite his scouting background. He was a yes man brought in by Parcells and should have been out when Parcells was out, and I would feel this way even if we win 10 games this season.

Furthermore.....Why would you expect a Kicker, that blew a huge game in college, to bring a winning mentality to an underperforming franchise? He doesn't know Football....he was a Kicker, and a ballboy....not a player or coach Very Happy


Last edited by green4gulf on Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:20 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 6809
Location: Alameda, Ca
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My biggest beef with Ireland 2.5 - yrs ago was was the realization that they had bought there own
B.S. regarding Henne & found themselves with NO plan B or the ability identify & develop a Plan B.
The reason he kept speaking of "a vision for a player" was due to his own lack of vision for the most important player.

That moment of enlightenment turned to horror when I noticed his trend to did everything possible (beyond Parcells tenure) to
fix the QB problem via every other position on the Off.
(including keeping his OLine coach whom never was an Off Coord & was elevated to HC)

That moment of Horror turned to a state of helpless dementia & detachment when I researched that in
20 yrs Ireland had never drafted a 1st rnd QB & that Carl Peterson was circling the lifeboats.

My hopes for this team lie squarely on Joe Phillbin AND his ability to name his own GM should the opportunity require it.

sug
_________________
# 52
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
green4gulf


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 2267
Location: TN, by way of Palm Beach FL
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SUG wrote:
My biggest beef with Ireland 2.5 - yrs ago was was the realization that they had bought there own
B.S. regarding Henne & found themselves with NO plan B or the ability identify & develop a Plan B.
The reason he kept speaking of "a vision for a player" was due to his own lack of vision for the most important player.

That moment of enlightenment turned to horror when I noticed his trend to did everything possible (beyond Parcells tenure) to
fix the QB problem via every other position on the Off.
(including keeping his OLine coach whom never was an Off Coord & was elevated to HC)

That moment of Horror turned to a state of helpless dementia & detachment when I researched that in
20 yrs Ireland had never drafted a 1st rnd QB & that Carl Peterson was circling the lifeboats.

My hopes for this team lie squarely on Joe Phillbin AND his ability to name his own GM should the opportunity require it.

sug


I vividly remember your disdain for Ireland going back for some time.....and that it seemed to be QB driven. I remember you catching a beating from posters for your views, and if no one else tells you....I will....Dude you were correct.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Clutch


Joined: 04 Nov 2004
Posts: 2240
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

green4gulf wrote:
Recently watching Hard Knox, I learned that JI was the ball boy ( or whatever lol ) for the '85 Bears.

Old Dolphins fans ( like myself ) probably remember watching us whoop the '85 Bears to give them their only defeat of the season....and protect the only "undefeated team image" of the '72 Dolphins. At the time, it was a pretty big deal since it was a Monday Night Game and the Bears came into the Orange Bowl at 12-0.

I just can't help but think how the members of that '85 Bears team sure appear to have gotten the last laugh on us by implanting this turd in our Organization LoL.

IMO Ireland never had the qualifications to be a GM, despite his scouting background. He was a yes man brought in by Parcells and should have been out when Parcells was out, and I would feel this way even if we win 10 games this season.

Furthermore.....Why would you expect a Kicker, that blew a huge game in college, to bring a winning mentality to an underperforming franchise? He doesn't know Football....he was a Kicker, and a ballboy....not a player or coach Very Happy


Not true. Bill Parcells like Ireland because he stayed with his convictions on players. I watched the segment where they would be screaming at each other about players and Bill stated very clearly that Ireland had his own opinion and would not sway. Hardly a yes man.

Look, if the witchhunt wants to continue, thats fine. But lets keep it real.

Ted Thompson was the biggest turd going when he handled the Favre/Rodgers situation 'the wrong way'. Now he is the biggest genius in the league? Cmon.

The list of GM's provided was great. But if you look closely, they all have one thing in common. Great QB play. Pioli, I think is a little overrated actually. A few years ago they had 3 1st rounders, I believe, and didnt do much with them. They still look the part of a 3rd or 4th place team in that division.

QB play is the key in this league. GM's and Coaches are crowned or fired for not having it in place. Try as you might to get around it, it just seems to lead back to the same position. IF Tannehill becomes an elite qb and they surround him with talent, then Ireland becomes a great GM. Pretty simple.

I can already see. Ireland gets fired. They bring in some GM. RT is in his second season. They add some quality players. Become a winning team again. New GM is credited with making all the right moves. Yet the moves Ireland is making right now are setting this team up.

I for one, really liked this past draft the Fins had. They also addressed the WR position by adding Ocho. According the beat writers, he was looking good in camp. Things change. But I am not going to jump on Ireland when I thought the draft went well. You hit, you miss. He seems to hit on 1st rounders, thats not terrible. He just needs a couple of mid-late rounders to pay off and he will be moving in the right direction.

I think we need to be a little patient. So goes RT, so goes the Fins.
_________________
- "Who, I love Rich Camarillo." Quote from the Fish's play by play crew.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blagasse67


Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 11319
Location: Delaware
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has Ireland done that bad though? We keep saying he has missed on every 2nd round pick but yet Sean Smith and Koa Misi have turned the corner this year. Misi had 10 tackles Sunday and yet nobody is talking about it. Sean Smith has been praised by the coaches of turning the corner.

Let's not forget Ireland drafted Odrick, Pouncey, Jones, Misi, Smith, and had his hand in with Jake Long and Bess

Let's not forget key moves, Dansby, Burnett, bush, incognito, Starks, Marshall, and Richard Marshall. Ireland brought in some key contributors. He also helped get Soliai under contract. He didn't hurry up and trade the farm out of desperation of a QB last year. He drafted one this year. He knows it takes more than one year to develop. He has not overpaid at all for a Wr this year since we now have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds.
_________________

UniversalAuthor
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
phinmun


Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 2231
Location: South Carolina
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I for one am completely willing to admit that mistakes were made by the prior regime comprised of Parcells, Ireland & Sparano. I don't know who contributed what but I do know they attempted to install an out-dated offensive system. I do know they chose not to draft Matt Ryan and instead Jake Long. I do know they drafted poorly on offense bringing in QB Chad Henne, WR Patrick Turner and other mid- and late-round offensive players that often failed. I do know however that they assembled a solid defense. I do know they brought talent to the team in free agency in the form of Pennington, Starks, Bess, Wake, Marshall, Dansby, Smiley, Burnett & Incognito amongst others. I do know that the overall record of this regime was just below .500.


What they could have done when they came here was release Jason Taylor, trade Joey Porter, trade Ricky Williams, trade Ronnie Brown and so on. That would've shaken this forum. I remember all the talk about how DTRB was a top-5 back, etc, etc, etc. I personally scoffed at that notion, but he was our best player, no doubt. Not only was he a contributor but he was a fan-favorite and a stand-up guy. I can only imagine what would've been said when we got only a 3rd rounder for Ronnie Brown. Laughing

That would've been the basis for a true re-build however the decision was made (by who we don't know) to take the 'win-now' approach and to see if the addition of experienced coaches, conservative drafting and free agent money could make the team competitive.

Ultimately, that gamble failed. It was a decision that we can only lay on the group itself. That's hard for a lot of people to get over--that Ireland can be part of a failed regime but possibly still be able to switch directions and be successful in an actual rebuild. Ireland will clearly learn lessons from the failure--more than we can type on this forum--so let's give him some respect and not act like he isn't an intelligent individual.


So, please guys, understand that Bill Parcells did not rebuild the Miami Dolphins. He simply did not. His entire regime made decision under the premise that they could turn the team around immediately with the things I listed above.

They were NOT rebuilding.

So how do you judge whether Jeff Ireland can rebuild this franchise or not? Simply that he went along with the prior regimes MO? Just remember, you've yet to see him charged with rebuilding anything.

Well, what do we hope the franchise learned? Let's ask ourselves.

Well, 1st things 1st, true rebuilding needs to be the first priority.

It's hard for me to take a list of GMs and say who's doing well and who's not because they each were handed a different roster, are working under a different owners and have had different coaches to select from in the 'free agent' market.

This is a 'right place, right time' sort of business and because of that I want to check first and make sure that we aren't currently in a spot were we actually have the right guy at the right time.

It's important to realize that the gamble didn't pay off for us but that it often does for other teams. Elway brought in Peyton Manning. The Colts were nearly winless without Manning which tells me that Elway has 21 of the easiest positions in football to fill.

Unfortunately, the Dolphins of 2007 left very little on the table. Our best players were either aging veterans (Taylor/Porter), injury-hampered RBs (Brown) or simply under-developed, over-rated and over-drafted WRs. (Lightning Rod)




So again, what do we hope the franchise has learned? Here would be my list of basic steps applicable to almost any franchise that truly wants to rebuild and find itself much improved 5 years down the line.

A) Completely ditch the idea that you have any talent on your roster from which to build. You don't build around anyone in this league. You build from scratch. The success of your venture CANNOT be hinged upon any current player despite his record, his age or his contract.

B) Get used to the idea that any talent on your roster that actually contributes will be all icing on the cake. However, you MUST assume you have nothing to build around.

C) Create an idea, picture and model of what you want to build.

D) Fire every coach, scout and executive who doesn't align with that model.

E) Hire people who fit that model, namely a Head Coach.

Here would be my ideal criteria:
--Offensively-Oriented
--No prior failures as a HC
--Yet to win a Super Bowl as a HC (motivated)
--Has experience working with QBs (preferably good ones)

(This all describes Joe Philbin, actually)

F) Trade everyone of value that isn't young. (e.g. Brandon Marshall)

G) Release players who've had ample time to progress. (e.g. Roberto Wallace, Julius Priutt, etc)

H) Trade troublesome players who return their value. (e.g. Vontae Davis, 25th overall pick for Colts pick b/t 33rd-40th overall)

I) Don't spend big money in free agency. You don't need a player who's best years will be spent playing on your developing roster. (See F)

J) Keep players who's trade value is low but who keep you competitive (e.g. Reggie Bush)

K) Draft as though you have a roster of 0 players -->

Round 1: QB, (Most important position in the NFL)
Round 2: OT, (Protect your biggest investment)
Round 3: DE, (Build around what's most important on defense)



These are the steps necessary to complete year-1 of a rebuild.

Is it a coincidence that this team has provided us with an example of each of these steps? I don't think so. So far, Jeff Ireland has done an A+ job in completing the initial steps of a rebuild.

Take your eyes off of the faces for a minute guys. Think about what the real problems were and appreciate just how much was done this off-season.

This could be the moment in time the Dolphins turned the corner. Do you really all want to be so rash in your judgement?

Just think about it.


Last edited by phinmun on Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Judson49


Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 647
Location: London
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoa!! That's absolutely amazing.

Jeez, I never saw it like that. Man, I'm embarrassed now. I take back everything bad I've said about Jeff Ireland.

He's freakin hitting it out the park!

Look at him ticking every box there. I'm totally on board now.

Go Fins.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
joeyL.


Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 945
Location: Morgantown, WV
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

phinmun wrote:
I for one am completely willing to admit that mistakes were made by the prior regime comprised of Parcells, Ireland & Sparano. I don't know who contributed what but I do know they attempted to install an out-dated offensive system. I do know they chose not to draft Matt Ryan and instead Jake Long. I do know they drafted poorly on offense bringing in QB Chad Henne, WR Patrick Turner and other mid- and late-round offensive players that often failed. I do know however that they assembled a solid defense. I do know they brought talent to the team in free agency in the form of Pennington, Starks, Bess, Wake, Marshall, Dansby, Smiley, Burnett & Incognito amongst others. I do know that the overall record of this regime was just below .500.


What they could have done when they came here was release Jason Taylor, trade Joey Porter, trade Ricky Williams, trade Ronnie Brown and so on. That would've shaken this forum. I remember all the talk about how DTRB was a top-5 back, etc, etc, etc. I personally scoffed at that notion, but he was our best player, no doubt. Not only was he a contributor but he was a fan-favorite and a stand-up guy. I can only imagine what would've been said when we got only a 3rd rounder for Ronnie Brown. Laughing

That would've been the basis for a true re-build however the decision was made (by who we don't know) to take the 'win-now' approach and to see if the addition of experienced coaches, conservative drafting and free agent money could make the team competitive.

Ultimately, that gamble failed. It was a decision that we can only lay on the group itself. That's hard for a lot of people to get over--that Ireland can be part of a failed regime but possibly still be able to switch directions and be successful in an actual rebuild. Ireland will clearly learn lessons from the failure--more than we can type on this forum--so let's give him some respect and not act like he isn't an intelligent individual.


So, please guys, understand that Bill Parcells did not rebuild the Miami Dolphins. He simply did not. His entire regime made decision under the premise that they could turn the team around immediately with the things I listed above.

They were NOT rebuilding.

So how do you judge whether Jeff Ireland can rebuild this franchise or not? Simply that he went along with the prior regimes MO? Just remember, you've yet to see him charged with rebuilding anything.

Well, what do we hope the franchise learned? Let's ask ourselves.

Well, 1st things 1st, true rebuilding needs to be the first priority.

It's hard for me to take a list of GMs and say who's doing well and who's not because they each were handed a different roster, are working under a different owners and have had different coaches to select from in the 'free agent' market.

This is a 'right place, right time' sort of business and because of that I want to check first and make sure that we aren't currently in a spot were we actually have the right guy at the right time.

It's important to realize that the gamble didn't pay off for us but that it often does for other teams. Elway brought in Peyton Manning. The Colts were nearly winless without Manning which tells me that Elway has 21 of the easiest positions in football to fill.

Unfortunately, the Dolphins of 2007 left very little on the table. Our best players were either aging veterans (Taylor/Porter), injury-hampered RBs (Brown) or simply under-developed, over-rated and over-drafted WRs. (Lightning Rod)




So again, what do we hope the franchise has learned? Here would be my list of basic steps applicable to almost any franchise that truly wants to rebuild and find itself much improved 5 years down the line.

A) Completely ditch the idea that you have any talent on your roster from which to build. You don't build around anyone in this league. You build from scratch. The success of your venture CANNOT be hinged upon any current player despite his record, his age or his contract.

B) Get used to the idea that any talent on your roster that actually contributes will be all icing on the cake. However, you MUST assume you have nothing to build around.

C) Create an idea, picture and model of what you want to build.

D) Fire every coach, scout and executive who doesn't align with that model.

E) Hire people who fit that model, namely a Head Coach.

Here would be my ideal criteria:
--Offensively-Oriented
--No prior failures as a HC
--Yet to win a Super Bowl as a HC (motivated)
--Has experience working with QBs (preferably good ones)

(This all describes Joe Philbin, actually)

F) Trade everyone of value that isn't young. (e.g. Brandon Marshall)

G) Release players who've had ample time to progress. (e.g. Roberto Wallace)

H) Trade troublesome players who return their value. (e.g. Vontae Davis, 25th overall pick for Colts pick b/t 33rd-40th overall)

I) Don't spend big money in free agency. You don't need a player who's best years will be spent playing on your developing roster.

J) Keep players who's trade value is low but who keep you competitive (e.g. Reggie Bush)

K) Draft as though you have a roster of 0 players -->

Round 1: QB, (Most important position in the NFL)
Round 2: OT, (Protect your biggest investment)
Round 3: DE, (Build around what's most important on defense)



These are the steps necessary to complete year-1 of a rebuild.

Is it a coincidence that this team has provided us with an example of each of these steps? I don't think so. So far, Jeff Ireland has done an A+ job in completing the initial steps of a rebuild.

Take your eyes off of the faces for a minute guys. Think about what the real problems were and appreciate just how much was done this off-season.

This could be the moment in time the Dolphins turned the corner. Do you really all want to be so rash in your judgement?

Just think about it.



This has to be one of the most in depth, and accurate posts in FF history. Love it.

Thanks phinmum!
_________________

^^^packerbacker87, mad props yo.
"
This is America, the land of individualism, civil
disobedience and footballs that dont roll like the rest of the world wants them to"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
green4gulf


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 2267
Location: TN, by way of Palm Beach FL
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joeyL. wrote:
phinmun wrote:
I for one am completely willing to admit that mistakes were made by the prior regime comprised of Parcells, Ireland & Sparano. I don't know who contributed what but I do know they attempted to install an out-dated offensive system. I do know they chose not to draft Matt Ryan and instead Jake Long. I do know they drafted poorly on offense bringing in QB Chad Henne, WR Patrick Turner and other mid- and late-round offensive players that often failed. I do know however that they assembled a solid defense. I do know they brought talent to the team in free agency in the form of Pennington, Starks, Bess, Wake, Marshall, Dansby, Smiley, Burnett & Incognito amongst others. I do know that the overall record of this regime was just below .500.


What they could have done when they came here was release Jason Taylor, trade Joey Porter, trade Ricky Williams, trade Ronnie Brown and so on. That would've shaken this forum. I remember all the talk about how DTRB was a top-5 back, etc, etc, etc. I personally scoffed at that notion, but he was our best player, no doubt. Not only was he a contributor but he was a fan-favorite and a stand-up guy. I can only imagine what would've been said when we got only a 3rd rounder for Ronnie Brown. Laughing

That would've been the basis for a true re-build however the decision was made (by who we don't know) to take the 'win-now' approach and to see if the addition of experienced coaches, conservative drafting and free agent money could make the team competitive.

Ultimately, that gamble failed. It was a decision that we can only lay on the group itself. That's hard for a lot of people to get over--that Ireland can be part of a failed regime but possibly still be able to switch directions and be successful in an actual rebuild. Ireland will clearly learn lessons from the failure--more than we can type on this forum--so let's give him some respect and not act like he isn't an intelligent individual.


So, please guys, understand that Bill Parcells did not rebuild the Miami Dolphins. He simply did not. His entire regime made decision under the premise that they could turn the team around immediately with the things I listed above.

They were NOT rebuilding.

So how do you judge whether Jeff Ireland can rebuild this franchise or not? Simply that he went along with the prior regimes MO? Just remember, you've yet to see him charged with rebuilding anything.

Well, what do we hope the franchise learned? Let's ask ourselves.

Well, 1st things 1st, true rebuilding needs to be the first priority.

It's hard for me to take a list of GMs and say who's doing well and who's not because they each were handed a different roster, are working under a different owners and have had different coaches to select from in the 'free agent' market.

This is a 'right place, right time' sort of business and because of that I want to check first and make sure that we aren't currently in a spot were we actually have the right guy at the right time.

It's important to realize that the gamble didn't pay off for us but that it often does for other teams. Elway brought in Peyton Manning. The Colts were nearly winless without Manning which tells me that Elway has 21 of the easiest positions in football to fill.

Unfortunately, the Dolphins of 2007 left very little on the table. Our best players were either aging veterans (Taylor/Porter), injury-hampered RBs (Brown) or simply under-developed, over-rated and over-drafted WRs. (Lightning Rod)




So again, what do we hope the franchise has learned? Here would be my list of basic steps applicable to almost any franchise that truly wants to rebuild and find itself much improved 5 years down the line.

A) Completely ditch the idea that you have any talent on your roster from which to build. You don't build around anyone in this league. You build from scratch. The success of your venture CANNOT be hinged upon any current player despite his record, his age or his contract.

B) Get used to the idea that any talent on your roster that actually contributes will be all icing on the cake. However, you MUST assume you have nothing to build around.

C) Create an idea, picture and model of what you want to build.

D) Fire every coach, scout and executive who doesn't align with that model.

E) Hire people who fit that model, namely a Head Coach.

Here would be my ideal criteria:
--Offensively-Oriented
--No prior failures as a HC
--Yet to win a Super Bowl as a HC (motivated)
--Has experience working with QBs (preferably good ones)

(This all describes Joe Philbin, actually)

F) Trade everyone of value that isn't young. (e.g. Brandon Marshall)

G) Release players who've had ample time to progress. (e.g. Roberto Wallace)

H) Trade troublesome players who return their value. (e.g. Vontae Davis, 25th overall pick for Colts pick b/t 33rd-40th overall)

I) Don't spend big money in free agency. You don't need a player who's best years will be spent playing on your developing roster.

J) Keep players who's trade value is low but who keep you competitive (e.g. Reggie Bush)

K) Draft as though you have a roster of 0 players -->

Round 1: QB, (Most important position in the NFL)
Round 2: OT, (Protect your biggest investment)
Round 3: DE, (Build around what's most important on defense)



These are the steps necessary to complete year-1 of a rebuild.

Is it a coincidence that this team has provided us with an example of each of these steps? I don't think so. So far, Jeff Ireland has done an A+ job in completing the initial steps of a rebuild.

Take your eyes off of the faces for a minute guys. Think about what the real problems were and appreciate just how much was done this off-season.

This could be the moment in time the Dolphins turned the corner. Do you really all want to be so rash in your judgement?

Just think about it.



This has to be one of the most in depth, and accurate posts in FF history. Love it.

Thanks phinmum!


And it's Long too Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
green4gulf


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 2267
Location: TN, by way of Palm Beach FL
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clutch wrote:
green4gulf wrote:
Recently watching Hard Knox, I learned that JI was the ball boy ( or whatever lol ) for the '85 Bears.

Old Dolphins fans ( like myself ) probably remember watching us whoop the '85 Bears to give them their only defeat of the season....and protect the only "undefeated team image" of the '72 Dolphins. At the time, it was a pretty big deal since it was a Monday Night Game and the Bears came into the Orange Bowl at 12-0.

I just can't help but think how the members of that '85 Bears team sure appear to have gotten the last laugh on us by implanting this turd in our Organization LoL.

IMO Ireland never had the qualifications to be a GM, despite his scouting background. He was a yes man brought in by Parcells and should have been out when Parcells was out, and I would feel this way even if we win 10 games this season.

Furthermore.....Why would you expect a Kicker, that blew a huge game in college, to bring a winning mentality to an underperforming franchise? He doesn't know Football....he was a Kicker, and a ballboy....not a player or coach Very Happy


Not true. Bill Parcells like Ireland because he stayed with his convictions on players. I watched the segment where they would be screaming at each other about players and Bill stated very clearly that Ireland had his own opinion and would not sway. Hardly a yes man.

Look, if the witchhunt wants to continue, thats fine. But lets keep it real.

Ted Thompson was the biggest turd going when he handled the Favre/Rodgers situation 'the wrong way'. Now he is the biggest genius in the league? Cmon.

The list of GM's provided was great. But if you look closely, they all have one thing in common. Great QB play. Pioli, I think is a little overrated actually. A few years ago they had 3 1st rounders, I believe, and didnt do much with them. They still look the part of a 3rd or 4th place team in that division.

QB play is the key in this league. GM's and Coaches are crowned or fired for not having it in place. Try as you might to get around it, it just seems to lead back to the same position. IF Tannehill becomes an elite qb and they surround him with talent, then Ireland becomes a great GM. Pretty simple.

I can already see. Ireland gets fired. They bring in some GM. RT is in his second season. They add some quality players. Become a winning team again. New GM is credited with making all the right moves. Yet the moves Ireland is making right now are setting this team up.

I for one, really liked this past draft the Fins had. They also addressed the WR position by adding Ocho. According the beat writers, he was looking good in camp. Things change. But I am not going to jump on Ireland when I thought the draft went well. You hit, you miss. He seems to hit on 1st rounders, thats not terrible. He just needs a couple of mid-late rounders to pay off and he will be moving in the right direction.

I think we need to be a little patient. So goes RT, so goes the Fins.


Who said that?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cddolphin


Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 6645
Location: Gainesville, FL
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blagasse67 wrote:
Has Ireland done that bad though? We keep saying he has missed on every 2nd round pick but yet Sean Smith and Koa Misi have turned the corner this year. Misi had 10 tackles Sunday and yet nobody is talking about it. Sean Smith has been praised by the coaches of turning the corner.

Let's not forget Ireland drafted Odrick, Pouncey, Jones, Misi, Smith, and had his hand in with Jake Long and Bess

Let's not forget key moves, Dansby, Burnett, bush, incognito, Starks, Marshall, and Richard Marshall. Ireland brought in some key contributors. He also helped get Soliai under contract. He didn't hurry up and trade the farm out of desperation of a QB last year. He drafted one this year. He knows it takes more than one year to develop. He has not overpaid at all for a Wr this year since we now have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds.


Sums it up more succinctly than I could.

Jeff Irelands first few drafts and FA moves were average at worst, and unfortunately we can't know for certain whether to credit the 2008-09 drafts to Parcells or Ireland.

I'm not sure why we as fans want to give players more than a couple seasons to learn, grow and develop before we evaluate them but we don't extend the same courtesy to coaches or GMs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Deadeye


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 5990
Location: A Nearby Dolphin Encounter
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

phinmun wrote:
Is it a coincidence that this team has provided us with an example of each of these steps? I don't think so. So far, Jeff Ireland has done an A+ job in completing the initial steps of a rebuild.

Nice post phinum. I don't disagree with anything you've said except what's bolded.

I like the fact that we've committed to rebuilding. But as has been mentioned by others, the normal rebuild method is a top down approach in which a GM selects the head coach and they both go forward with the GM holding ultimate power. That's what I have always wanted for Miami.

Here we have Ireland as a hold over from the BP regime, and this is a source of trouble IMO. Our idiot owner is going to fire Ireland based on the team's poor level of play this season. That's moronic for the following reasons:

1) Only a complete novice would fail to grasp that the 2012 Dolphins are in an all out rebuild mode. We have a first round QB (that Ross essentially forced the organization to select). We've traded talented players for picks, and we've waived some players who never panned. This team is destined to win 3 or 4 games at most. Yet, despite all the rebuild momentum, Ross is going to fire Ireland for the team stinking this season. He kick starts a rebuild by getting the franchise QB, then decides to fire people over the inevitable bad record. Ross is a gold plated jackass.

2) The main failure of the previous owner (WH) was that he never started from scratch. He'd fire a coach, then hire a replacement. Then he'd fire a GM, then hire a replacement. Then he'd fire the coach he hired, and hire a new replacement. On and on it went. The bumbling fool didn't understand that he was destroying the very franchise built up by JR, Shula, Greise, and Marino. He wasn't smart enough to do what Kraft did, so he sold the team to another clown who's doing the same thing all over again. It's as though ultra wealthy idiots are walking magnets who attract other ultra wealthy idiots to do business with. They repell smart people.

3) Firing Ireland wil lead to one of two bad outcomes. We will either hire another GM to retrofit into the oranization while retaining Philbin and company. Or we will fire the whole crew after one season of rebuilding and developing our new QB.

I would not give Ireland an A+. Certainly there have been moves that I've liked. But the biggest strike against Ireland is the really poor drafting in rounds two through five. When BP was here it was hard to know who to blame for White, Turner, and all the rest. But 2011 and 2012 are all JI's players. Gates is cut, Clay isn't looking so good, Thomas looks like a reach in round 2, Martin is a swinging gate, Kaddu was too raw to make the team, and Egnew can't separate. These whiffs are a BIG DEAL. We traded real talent to get an extra 2nd and 3rd for 2013. We cannot have Ireland whiffing on those as well, especially with us picking in the top 5. Yet if Ross fires Ireland, we could easily be in worse shape.

Ross is 80% of Miami's problems. Ireland doesn't deserve to stay IMO, but Ross' attempt to "fix" the problem will likely make it worse.
_________________
Earn more sessions by sleeving.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Miami Dolphins All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 3 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group