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Pugger


Joined: 01 May 2010
Posts: 9104
Location: N. Fort Myers, FL
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bears Are Legit wrote:
Was Nick Collins really that good? Was his impact large enough to have us go from a top tier defense to potentially the worst in the league?

At this rate he's looking like a hall of famer.


If you recall we saw some of these mistakes in the secondary in those couple of games before Collins got hurt. It just got super exposed after he left and we still haven't fixed it. Confused
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motorcycle


Joined: 08 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have only just seen the game now (I am watching all 16 games from this week in order!).

Morgan Burnett was absolutely terrible. He should be benched immediately and replaaced with McMillian. The lack of effort on Gore's TD was atrocious. He is worthless in the run game and he misread some coverage responsibilities.

T.J. Lang was completely outplayed by Justin Smith and Aldon Smith and Ahmad Brooks late on. All the talk was on Newhouse before the game, but 74 didn't have a bad game, it was Lang was had a shocker.

Josh Sitton and Bryan Bulaga had bad games, Sitton especially. Many times he was asked to double-block linemen and then get up to the 2nd level, but either he couldn't get up to the 2nd level or NaVorro Bowman easily took care of him once he did.

D.J. Smith is not a replacement for Desmond Bishop. He takes poor angles, gets caught up in traffic and is no blitz threat.

The only bright spots for me were Clay Matthews, Nick Perry and Randall Cobb. Perry was pretty good against the run and although he relies on his bull rush too much, he was effective when he used it.

We need a decent running back. Not only for any semblance of a running game, but also for pass protection and screens/dump offs when Rodgers gets in trouble from the o-line. San Francisco used what NYG did effectively in the playoffs. If teams can rush with 4 men, then we're reliant on Rodgers being perfect. When he only plays good, we're in trouble.

San Francisco were excellent on defence and we should only face maybe 1 or 2 teams as good all year, but that won't win a Superbowl for us.
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CentralFC


Joined: 03 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It starts up front. Unless you're able to put pressure with three down lineman and Matthews/Perry off the edge, you're screwed. We had that with Cullen and Collins masked some deficiencies in the secondary as well. But if you need Woodson off the edge, Matthews and Perry, and then an ILB blitzing as well, you're bound to have problems.

We can't get pressure with our base package and we literally get no pass rush from our Okie (Pickett, Wilson, Worthy, Merling, Neal). If a quarterback has five to six seconds in the pocket, he'll consistently produce.
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Bolstrikes wrote:
Ben makes his receivers a lot better then Rodgers does. I think Rodgers gets way more to work with and don't feel he's better then Ben. Rodgers gets better surrounding talent and a better system.
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UpTheSeam85


Joined: 23 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a thought... if in the 4th San Fran sticked with a passing attack and had not become conservative to kill time, they would have just run up the score? True or False?
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PackFan4Life


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UpTheSeam85 wrote:
Just a thought... if in the 4th San Fran sticked with a passing attack and had not become conservative to kill time, they would have just run up the score? True or False?


If Smith keeps heaving it in the second half, he may also have thrown an INT that completely switches the make up of the game, ala Rodgers in the 4th QTR. It cuts both ways.
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UpTheSeam85


Joined: 23 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PackFan4Life wrote:
UpTheSeam85 wrote:
Just a thought... if in the 4th San Fran sticked with a passing attack and had not become conservative to kill time, they would have just run up the score? True or False?


If Smith keeps heaving it in the second half, he may also have thrown an INT that completely switches the make up of the game, ala Rodgers in the 4th QTR. It cuts both ways.

I guess you could twist it that way too, but i'm just wondering if our defense played better in the 4th because everyone knew what the play would be. Either way, to be outplayed the entire game and still have a chance to take it to overtime in the end shows how good of a team we are IMO. Just need to play more sound and disciplined.
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Kampman74


Joined: 30 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralFC wrote:
It starts up front. Unless you're able to put pressure with three down lineman and Matthews/Perry off the edge, you're screwed. We had that with Cullen and Collins masked some deficiencies in the secondary as well. But if you need Woodson off the edge, Matthews and Perry, and then an ILB blitzing as well, you're bound to have problems.

We can't get pressure with our base package and we literally get no pass rush from our Okie (Pickett, Wilson, Worthy, Merling, Neal). If a quarterback has five to six seconds in the pocket, he'll consistently produce.


Good because in now way shape or form have we seen the best from Perry, Worthy and of course no Daniels or neal yet. Things are going to get better, cause like everyone is acting things can't get any worse.
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I Am Rodgers


Joined: 19 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I'm looking at Perry's game. Here is my breakdown from the first half on Perry.

1st QTR
15:00- Run Play - Gore up the middle- OT Davis handles Perry
14:21- Run Play - Toss toss to the right- Perry blocked out of play by TE Walker
13:36- Pass Play - Perry bulls OT Davis back into Smith, Matthews beats OT Staley as well for the sack.

Random Note: 9:56- Packers Pass Play- SF Blitzes Carlos Rogers from the slot, send 6 men. Rodgers needs to a better job getting rid of the ball. Had Finley and Jennings open short to keep us in FG range. Took a sack he shouldn't of. Poor job on him not getting it out.

9:11- Pass Play- 3 Step drop and the ball is out. No chance to get any pass rush.
8:30- Pass Play- Perry covers RB Gore to the flat and QB Smith runs it. Wilson takes down QB Smith while Perry knocks over OT Davis who was blocking for QB Smith.
7:47- Pass Play- QB Smith in shotgun, takes 3 steps back, then steps up and throws in clean pocket. Perry and Matthews do a good job on the edge, and Raji even does ok on the center. Pickett gets a little push, but then gets stoned. Wilson is on the ground.
7:11- Run Play- Perry is heads up over TE Davis as he moves to slot. RB Hunter runs it inside of TE Davis block. FB takes out Woodson and RB Hunter gains good yards. Hawk works of OT Davis block to tackle RB Hunter.
6:32- Play Action Pass- Perry pushes OT Davis back and nearly gets to QB Smith. Smith releases ball in roughly 4 seconds to wide open WR Moss.
5:49- Pass Play- Perry comes on delayed move. Smith only takes a 3 step drop and Perry is easily fended off by OT Davis.
5:31- Run Play- RB Hunter bounces it to the opposite side of Perry. Perry works way down the line, but fails to fight through bodies to locate ball carrier. Hunter gains more yards than he should. Matthews was way in backfield and worked his way back upfield to the ball carrier. One of the few people to play with a lot of effort.
5:01- Pass Play- Perry is lined up over a WR (unidentifiable). Three step drop for QB Smith who isn't looking that way at all. Perry gets his hands on the WR but doesn't do a good job of re-routing. WR is able to slip by him.

1:20- Run Play- Gore up the middle- TE Davis blocks Perry. Perry is able to get off block and help take down RB Gore after gain of 5 yards.
0:35- Run Play- Gore runs to opposite side of Perry. Perry starts off against either OT Davis or TE then takes on OT Boone. No real movement.
2nd QTR
15:00- Pass Play- QB Smith on 3 step drop. Perry tries to get around OT Davis. OT Davis pushes Perry past QB Smith.
14:56- Run Play- Run is to Perry's side. SF comes with Jumbo Set with G Kilgore and G Davis as eligible. Perry unable to make a play vs two lineman. Gain is only 3.
14:12- Pass Play- Drops into zone with TE Davis. Pass is quick to opposite side.
14:07- Run Play- Perry bulls Davis back but RB Gore runs where Perry would be for 10 yard gain. G Boone pulls and FB get nice blocks to pave way.
13:25- Pass Play- Perry gets no push vs OT Davis and QB Smith get the ball out to TE Davis quickly.
12:57- Pass Play- 3 step drop for QB Smith and ball is out. No chance for pass rush.
12:29- Pass Play- Perry is lined up over WR Crabtree in slot. QB Smith completes pass easily. Perry goes to put his hand on WR Crabtree but WR Crabtree cuts inside and all is there. Perry is able to bring down WR Crabtree from behind.
11:54- Run Play- Toss to RB Hunter and Perry is there to meet him. Able to dance around Perry, but Perry brings him down for barely a gain of 1. Perry was unblocked on play.
11:14- Pass Play- Perry is late off snap and OT Davis is already in his set to block. Ball is out quick as coverage is blown and it's a TD to WR Moss.


4:40- Pass Play- Perry drops into short zone. Pass completed to WR Manningham in his zone.
4:09- Pass Play- Perry trys to get under pads of OT Davis. OT Davis pushes Perry down to ground and falls on top of him. Completion to WR Moss for 11 yards.
3:27- Run Play- RB Gore runs up the middle with OLine pulling left. Perry works way down the line and tackles RB Gore after gain of 5.
2:52- Pass Play- Perry tries running around OT Davis. OT Davis is able to mirror well and keep Perry in front of him. Incomplete Pass.
2:47- Pass Play- Perry starts off play vs OG Boone, then works to OT Davis. QB Smith rolls right and has ball out after 3 seconds but incomplete. Flag on play.
2:43- Run Play- Perry reads and reacts as RB Gore runs to left side of formation and is brought down quickly for gain of 3.
2:00- Pass Play- Perry drops into short zone and has two targets in his zone. One runs out of his zone and other turns, but Perry is close enough. QB Smith passes quick to left side of field to WR Manningham. Should of been False Start penalty on OT Staley. Moved early.
1:55- Pass Play- Perry works vs OT Davis. Ball is out quick. Bush came on a blitz and nearly had a free run. Was held badly by OG Boone. No flag.
1:50- Pass Play- Perry covers FB on wheel route. He was in trail position, but too far behind FB. OT Staley may have false started, but not enough for refs to throw flag. Pass was complete to WR Crabtree.
1:05- Run Play- 49ers come out in Jumbo set with G Davis and DT Tukuafu on field. Run is to Perry's side. He's able to get by on blocker and takes on two more as Hawk and Woodson make the tackle short of the 1st.

0:18- Run Play- QB Kaepernick runs it up the middle- Perry tries to run around OT Davis and runs himself out of the play.
0:11- Pass Play- Perry is unable to beat double team on quick pass play to apply any pressure.
0:06- Pass Play- Same result as previous play. Rushed 3 both times.
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stallyns wrote:
Good thing for talky-talk Harbaugh he has an outstanding citizen/player like Aldon Smith on his team and not a classless hooligan like Clay Matthews.
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hope Saturday picks up his game. That was not a 4 million dollar center right there!

Lang and Newhouse made grade for me. That was a very tough matchup all game for both. I had an idea they might stunt the hell out of those two and they did just that. J.Smith is a much different set than Newhouse will see most weeks as is A.Smith/Brooks over Lang. Both were had a few times but came to fight. Did not grade well, but better than many will this season with those guys in front of them.

The other side was not as strong. Sitton did very well at point and held his ground but you need far more push from your starting RG. Bulaga was a bit of a mess all game long for some reason. Might be the worst game he had as a Packer since early his rookie year.

Need more from these guys considering the money they are paid. Especially in the run game. That was just pathetic!
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CentralFC


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
Hope Saturday picks up his game. That was not a 4 million dollar center right there!

Lang and Newhouse made grade for me. That was a very tough matchup all game for both. I had an idea they might stunt the hell out of those two and they did just that. J.Smith is a much different set than Newhouse will see most weeks as is A.Smith/Brooks over Lang. Both were had a few times but came to fight. Did not grade well, but better than many will this season with those guys in front of them.

The other side was not as strong. Sitton did very well at point and held his ground but you need far more push from your starting RG. Bulaga was a bit of a mess all game long for some reason. Might be the worst game he had as a Packer since early his rookie year.

Need more from these guys considering the money they are paid. Especially in the run game. That was just pathetic!


Thanks for the insight. Glad to see a solid performance from Newhouse, especially against J. Smith. Why didn't SF push the Aldon Smith/Newhouse matchup a bit more? I figured he'd be the one we were seeing more of off the edge with Newhouse's poor performance against Hali last year.
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Bolstrikes wrote:
Ben makes his receivers a lot better then Rodgers does. I think Rodgers gets way more to work with and don't feel he's better then Ben. Rodgers gets better surrounding talent and a better system.
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palmy50


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralFC wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
Hope Saturday picks up his game. That was not a 4 million dollar center right there!

Lang and Newhouse made grade for me. That was a very tough matchup all game for both. I had an idea they might stunt the hell out of those two and they did just that. J.Smith is a much different set than Newhouse will see most weeks as is A.Smith/Brooks over Lang. Both were had a few times but came to fight. Did not grade well, but better than many will this season with those guys in front of them.

The other side was not as strong. Sitton did very well at point and held his ground but you need far more push from your starting RG. Bulaga was a bit of a mess all game long for some reason. Might be the worst game he had as a Packer since early his rookie year.

Need more from these guys considering the money they are paid. Especially in the run game. That was just pathetic!


Thanks for the insight. Glad to see a solid performance from Newhouse, especially against J. Smith. Why didn't SF push the Aldon Smith/Newhouse matchup a bit more? I figured he'd be the one we were seeing more of off the edge with Newhouse's poor performance against Hali last year.


I felt we would see a ton of Aldon Smith over Lang going into the game. Right idea, just turned out to be Brooks in there. First half they played us straight. After that, clearly they were playing the matchup game. Bulaga was a mess, Saturday could not hold point, J.Smith was bull rushing Newhouse, and Lang could not deal with the speed. That 49ers staff very much so had the right guys in the right place. I would have had Aldon over Bulaga also. Bulaga is a tech guy. If said tech is bad, guys like Smith will eat his lunch. From a pure movement POV, Newhouse has a lean on Bulaga!

In short, the Packers staff was out coached. When Mac should have been running the ball, he failed to do so. This played out on all levels of this game but was very clear on both sides of the line. Staff had a bad game, it happens. Liked the plan going in, that 49ers staff just did much better after kickoff.
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RashaanSalaami


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
Hope Saturday picks up his game. That was not a 4 million dollar center right there!

Lang and Newhouse made grade for me. That was a very tough matchup all game for both. I had an idea they might stunt the hell out of those two and they did just that. J.Smith is a much different set than Newhouse will see most weeks as is A.Smith/Brooks over Lang. Both were had a few times but came to fight. Did not grade well, but better than many will this season with those guys in front of them.

The other side was not as strong. Sitton did very well at point and held his ground but you need far more push from your starting RG. Bulaga was a bit of a mess all game long for some reason. Might be the worst game he had as a Packer since early his rookie year.

Need more from these guys considering the money they are paid. Especially in the run game. That was just pathetic!


Just got in 1Q tonight and obviously am not nearly as confident as you in what I'm seeing, but I picked up on a lot of the same things. 2 sacks early on were on the naked boot and Rodgers not reading the slot blitz. Had Rogers' man (Jennings) wide open.

In the run game, we weren't getting destroyed in the backfield or anything, but there's been no push whatsoever. Saturday hasn't played well and the right side is getting nothing going. No one can get off their blocks to get a helmet on the linebackers and Niners are holding the point, quickly reading Ced's reads, shedding and ending plays. This will be the toughest match-up all year, but the run game just isn't in this team. Most of it's probably mindset.

Also quick note, we played a base D all but 2 plays. Of course, Niners have also only gone more than 2 receivers twice.
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Kampman74


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought that Rodgers was off and it sounds like you guys are confirming my point, not to take anything away from the 49ers but when you blitz Rodgers he usually finds the hot read right away. He is red hot crazy good numbers against the blitz.
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Kampman74


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RashaanSalaami wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
Hope Saturday picks up his game. That was not a 4 million dollar center right there!

Lang and Newhouse made grade for me. That was a very tough matchup all game for both. I had an idea they might stunt the hell out of those two and they did just that. J.Smith is a much different set than Newhouse will see most weeks as is A.Smith/Brooks over Lang. Both were had a few times but came to fight. Did not grade well, but better than many will this season with those guys in front of them.

The other side was not as strong. Sitton did very well at point and held his ground but you need far more push from your starting RG. Bulaga was a bit of a mess all game long for some reason. Might be the worst game he had as a Packer since early his rookie year.

Need more from these guys considering the money they are paid. Especially in the run game. That was just pathetic!


Just got in 1Q tonight and obviously am not nearly as confident as you in what I'm seeing, but I picked up on a lot of the same things. 2 sacks early on were on the naked boot and Rodgers not reading the slot blitz. Had Rogers' man (Jennings) wide open.

In the run game, we weren't getting destroyed in the backfield or anything, but there's been no push whatsoever. Saturday hasn't played well and the right side is getting nothing going. No one can get off their blocks to get a helmet on the linebackers and Niners are holding the point, quickly reading Ced's reads, shedding and ending plays. This will be the toughest match-up all year, but the run game just isn't in this team. Most of it's probably mindset.

Also quick note, we played a base D all but 2 plays. Of course, Niners have also only gone more than 2 receivers twice.


Thats probably the most depressing thing I have read all week. We have a lot of money locked up in guard and Bulaga has three years left of his deal, other than cutting Saturday and getting a huge upgrade at C, either in the draft or FA, there isn't really much that can be done to this oline.
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Kampman74


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
This game is a classic example of my core issue with this Packers team for some time now. THE PACKERS ARE A FINESSE FOOTBALL TEAM. The reason I'm on record here many times saying I did not want the Packers to play the 49ers in the Playoffs. The reason why I'm on record here draft weekend saying the Packers should have taken Courtney Upshaw. And the reason why I was anything but calling this one a win over the past few weeks in here.

Fact is, when GOOD physical teams play GOOD finesse teams the physical teams wins far more times than not. If they play ten team and we play ten teams we might come away with the same or even better record. Just a bad matchup when in the end it's still a contact sport!

Clearly there is more to it. But that 49ers team beat them up today. Really, it's as simple as that.


What happened when we played the Steelers in the superbowl or the Jets in 2010? Wink Just sayin'
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