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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:29 pm    Post subject: Flacco's New Contract Discussion Reply with quote

No he hasn't signed an extension, sorry if the title was misleading. What brought this on was the news of Shaub's extension.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8359560/houston-texans-matt-schaub-gets-4-year-extension

Quote:
HOUSTON -- Houston Texans quarterback Matt Schaub announced Sunday that he's signed a four-year contract extension.

The deal is worth $62 million, with $24.75 million guaranteed, Fox 26 in Houston reported.


Quote:
Schaub, 30, missed games with injuries in 2007 and '08, then played all 16 games in 2009 and '10. He fractured his right foot in Week 10 last season, and this was the final year of his contract.


Whoa. I don't think there's any chance Flacco signs for less than that and it will probably be more. To me that's too much money for a guy like Shaub but that's the way the NFL is with QBs today. For Flacco I'm thinking they give him a 5 or 6 year deal worth about $17 mil. a year. The Ravens seem to prefer giving their players a bit more guaranteed money than you usually see so maybe the per year average isn't that high but I hope it doesn't go above that threshold. I don't think there's any question that Flacco will get a new deal from the Ravens either. It's a good thing the salary cap is getting a boost in a season or two.

On a side note, I find it interesting that when a NFL or NBA player gets a huge contract, like $100+ mil., there's always a big discussion on how they shouldn't get that much. You don't hear that with MLB players though. Just look at this off-season. Albert Pujols signed a $250 mil. contract. Prince Fielder signed a $214 million contract (we Tigers fans aren't complaining much though). Those deals are at least $100 mil. more than what guys from the other sports get yet it seems to be more easily accepted. Just something interesting I've noticed.
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NJ Raven


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No salary cap in baseball, that's why. It's not a franchise crippler if it doesn't work out.
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HokieRaven5


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Flacco's New Contract Discussion Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
No he hasn't signed an extension, sorry if the title was misleading. What brought this on was the news of Shaub's extension.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8359560/houston-texans-matt-schaub-gets-4-year-extension

Quote:
HOUSTON -- Houston Texans quarterback Matt Schaub announced Sunday that he's signed a four-year contract extension.

The deal is worth $62 million, with $24.75 million guaranteed, Fox 26 in Houston reported.


Quote:
Schaub, 30, missed games with injuries in 2007 and '08, then played all 16 games in 2009 and '10. He fractured his right foot in Week 10 last season, and this was the final year of his contract.


Whoa. I don't think there's any chance Flacco signs for less than that and it will probably be more. To me that's too much money for a guy like Shaub but that's the way the NFL is with QBs today. For Flacco I'm thinking they give him a 5 or 6 year deal worth about $17 mil. a year. The Ravens seem to prefer giving their players a bit more guaranteed money than you usually see so maybe the per year average isn't that high but I hope it doesn't go above that threshold. I don't think there's any question that Flacco will get a new deal from the Ravens either. It's a good thing the salary cap is getting a boost in a season or two.

On a side note, I find it interesting that when a NFL or NBA player gets a huge contract, like $100+ mil., there's always a big discussion on how they shouldn't get that much. You don't hear that with MLB players though. Just look at this off-season. Albert Pujols signed a $250 mil. contract. Prince Fielder signed a $214 million contract (we Tigers fans aren't complaining much though). Those deals are at least $100 mil. more than what guys from the other sports get yet it seems to be more easily accepted. Just something interesting I've noticed.


I usually laugh about baseball contracts like that at least when around fans of those teams (note that the Angels and Tigers still aren't in a playoff spot either, but moving towards one). What makes those contracts even more ridiculous is that while we criticize NFL massive contracts they aren't fully guaranteed either, where the MLB contracts are guaranteed for the entirety of the deal.
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drd23


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sad

Now we're going to have to overpay even more for Flacco. I hope that this move to an up-tempo, more shotgun, more no huddle type offense will mean that Flacco will do more to earn that sort of salary.

The biggest worry for me is that with the number of players we have on large salaries (Rice, Ngata, Suggs, Webb, Yanda, soon to be Flacco, likely Reed etc) that its really going to eat into our depth and we're going to become even more reliant on a small number of players to make a bigger impact
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NJ Raven wrote:
No salary cap in baseball, that's why. It's not a franchise crippler if it doesn't work out.


I understand it from that point of view, but I'm mostly referring to the people that are outraged by the total dollar amount only and not the effect it has on the rest of the team. You don't see that so much on forums like this but you do in the general public.

Anyways, back to Flacco. The deal Manning signed with Denver was for 5 years and $96 million with $18 million of that guaranteed which could rise to $60 million guaranteed if certain conditions are met. I think it's obvious Flacco won't get that much (probably quite a bit more guaranteed for sure though) but my estimate of 5 years at $17 million per would come out at a total of $85 million. That seems really close to Manning's deal but with what Schaub just got I think that's in the ballpark. Damn these other teams for setting the market so high for QBs. Laughing
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janky


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed too much money for Schaub. Flacco should be around the same numbers, I can realistically see a 7 or 8 year deal around 16 million w/ 30mil guaranteed. And well deserved.
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FlaccoForever


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drd23 wrote:
Sad

Now we're going to have to overpay even more for Flacco. I hope that this move to an up-tempo, more shotgun, more no huddle type offense will mean that Flacco will do more to earn that sort of salary.

The biggest worry for me is that with the number of players we have on large salaries (Rice, Ngata, Suggs, Webb, Yanda, soon to be Flacco, likely Reed etc) that its really going to eat into our depth and we're going to become even more reliant on a small number of players to make a bigger impact


I understand why you are worried about the large salaries but it's just a reality. You have to keep your core players and pay what it takes to do so. Jeff Zrebiec wrote an article about Joe in the Sun today and he said that Ravens officials have offered Joe a contract in the range of 5 years at $100 million (page 4 of the Ravens Preview section in the Sun, go down to paragraph 6 column 4). I don't know for sure if it's true but Zrebiec is pretty reliable and the Ravens clearly value wins and durability much more than Joe's critics do. Joe plays the most important and premier position in the NFL and it's a damn good time to be an NFL QB.
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FlaccoForever


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
NJ Raven wrote:
No salary cap in baseball, that's why. It's not a franchise crippler if it doesn't work out.


I understand it from that point of view, but I'm mostly referring to the people that are outraged by the total dollar amount only and not the effect it has on the rest of the team. You don't see that so much on forums like this but you do in the general public.

Anyways, back to Flacco. The deal Manning signed with Denver was for 5 years and $96 million with $18 million of that guaranteed which could rise to $60 million guaranteed if certain conditions are met. I think it's obvious Flacco won't get that much (probably quite a bit more guaranteed for sure though) but my estimate of 5 years at $17 million per would come out at a total of $85 million. That seems really close to Manning's deal but with what Schaub just got I think that's in the ballpark. Damn these other teams for setting the market so high for QBs. Laughing


Guys like Kolb, Fitzpatrick and Cassel are getting paid good money and they aren't very good QBs. Good QBs like Joe are going to get paid elite money and the elite QBs are going to get monster contracts. What are the chances Aaron Rodgers ends up getting $25 mil a year?
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably pretty good. Brees just got a $20 million per year contract (the same that Zrebeic reported Flacco was offered) and Rodgers will get more than that. That doesn't mean we have to like it or accept it without question though.

Here's a list of the deals that some of the higher paid QBs have right now (via the individual player pages at rotoworld compiled into one quote):

Quote:
Rodgers - 10/31/2008: Signed a six-year, $65 million contract. The deal contains $20 million guaranteed, including $12.9 million in the first year and a $7.42 million guaranteed roster bonus in the second.

Brees - 7/13/2012: Signed a five-year, $100 million contract. The deal contains $40 million guaranteed -- a $37 million signing bonus and Brees' first-year base salary.

Brady - 9/9/2010: Signed a five-year, $78.5 million contract. The deal contains $48.5 million guaranteed, including a $16 million signing bonus and a $4 million second-year roster bonus.

P. Manning - 3/20/2012: Signed a five-year, $96 million contract. The deal includes $18 million guaranteed -- Manning's 2012 base salary. The guarantees can rise to $60 million (Manning's 2013-2014 base salaries) if he passes a physical on March 13 of 2013

E. Manning - 8/13/2009: Signed a seven-year, $106.9 million contract. The deal contains $35 million guaranteed, including a $13 million signing bonus, a second-year option bonus of $12.5 million, and all but $1 million of Manning's 2009-2011 base salaries. Another $500,000 is available in 2010-2015 via annual workout bonuses.

Rivers - 8/24/2009: Signed a seven-year, $98.25 million contract. The deal contains $38.15 million guaranteed, including a $19.55 million signing bonus, Rivers' 2009-2010 base salaries, and a second-year option bonus of $6 million. $6 million of Rivers' 2011 salary is guaranteed for injury, but not skill or performance.

Romo - 10/29/2007: Signed a six-year, $67.4 million contract extension through 2013. The deal contains $30 million guaranteed, including an $11.5 million signing bonus, Romo's 2008 base salary, and an additional $8.19 million "signing" bonus in 2011.

Vick - 8/29/2011: Signed a six-year, $100 million contract. The deal contains $32.5 million guaranteed, including a $7 million signing bonus and all of Vick's first- and second-year base salaries and $3 million of his 2013 salary (for injury only). The sixth year voids if Vick participates in 35% of the Eagles' offensive snaps in any of the first five seasons, making the contract more realistically worth $80 million over five years. Another $3 million is available through incentives based on Super Bowl wins in 2011 and 2012, and playing time (77.5% of the regular season snaps).

Roethlisberger - 3/3/2008: Signed an eight-year, $102 million contract. The deal contains $33.2 million guaranteed, including a $25.2 million signing bonus and a $3 million roster bonus in the second year. Also included is a clause forbidding Roethlisberger from participating in "hazardous activities," e.g. riding a motorcycle with no helmet.

Cutler - 10/20/2009: Signed a five-year, $49.77 million contract. The deal contains $20 million guaranteed, including a $7 million signing bonus, Cutler's first-year salary, and $3.3 million of his 2010 base pay. Cutler can earn $500,000 workout bonuses in each year 2010-2013.

Fitzpatrick - 10/28/2011: Signed a seven-year, $62.195 million contract. The deal contains $24 million guaranteed, including a $10 million signing bonus.

Sanchez - 3/9/2012: Signed a five-year, $58.25 million contract. The deal contains $20.5 million guaranteed, including an $8 million signing bonus and all of Sanchez's 2012 and 2013 base salaries. Another $10 million is available through escalators. Sanchez is eligible for annual $500,000 workout bonuses throughout the contract's life.

Cassel - 7/14/2009: Signed a six-year, $63 million contract. The deal contains $28 million guaranteed, including a $10 million roster bonus in the first year and a $7.5 million option bonus in the third.

Palmer - 10/18/2011: Signed a four-year, $43 million contract. The deal contains $7.5 million guaranteed, including all of Palmer's first-year salary and $5 million of Palmer's second-year salary.

Kolb - 7/29/2011: Signed a six-year, $65 million contract. The deal contains $12 million guaranteed, including a $10 million signing bonus and Kolb's first-year base salary. Annual $500,000 workout bonuses are available throughout the contract's life.

A. Smith - 3/20/2012: Signed a three-year, $24 million contract. The deal contains $9 million guaranteed -- an initial roster bonus of $3 million, all of Smith's 2012 base salary, and $1 million of his 2013 salary. Another $9 million is available through incentives, though $5.25 million of them are "unlikely to be earned." An annual $250,000 workout bonus is available.

Flynn - 3/18/2012: Signed a three-year, $19.5 million contract. The deal contains $10 million guaranteed -- a $6 million signing bonus, Flynn's 2012 base salary, and $2 million of his second-year salary. Another $5 million is available through escalators. An additional $2 million worth of incentives is available, but is "unlikely to be earned."


I think that's every contract that could be consider relevant, even in the smallest way. Let me know if I missed anybody. I didn't list guys still on their rookie deals like Stafford since those contracts were more based on their draft position than anything.
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FlaccoForever


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
Probably pretty good. Brees just got a $20 million per year contract (the same that Zrebeic reported Flacco was offered) and Rodgers will get more than that. That doesn't mean we have to like it or accept it without question though.

Here's a list of the deals that some of the higher paid QBs have right now (via the individual player pages at rotoworld compiled into one quote):

Quote:
Rodgers - 10/31/2008: Signed a six-year, $65 million contract. The deal contains $20 million guaranteed, including $12.9 million in the first year and a $7.42 million guaranteed roster bonus in the second.

Brees - 7/13/2012: Signed a five-year, $100 million contract. The deal contains $40 million guaranteed -- a $37 million signing bonus and Brees' first-year base salary.

Brady - 9/9/2010: Signed a five-year, $78.5 million contract. The deal contains $48.5 million guaranteed, including a $16 million signing bonus and a $4 million second-year roster bonus.

P. Manning - 3/20/2012: Signed a five-year, $96 million contract. The deal includes $18 million guaranteed -- Manning's 2012 base salary. The guarantees can rise to $60 million (Manning's 2013-2014 base salaries) if he passes a physical on March 13 of 2013

E. Manning - 8/13/2009: Signed a seven-year, $106.9 million contract. The deal contains $35 million guaranteed, including a $13 million signing bonus, a second-year option bonus of $12.5 million, and all but $1 million of Manning's 2009-2011 base salaries. Another $500,000 is available in 2010-2015 via annual workout bonuses.

Rivers - 8/24/2009: Signed a seven-year, $98.25 million contract. The deal contains $38.15 million guaranteed, including a $19.55 million signing bonus, Rivers' 2009-2010 base salaries, and a second-year option bonus of $6 million. $6 million of Rivers' 2011 salary is guaranteed for injury, but not skill or performance.

Romo - 10/29/2007: Signed a six-year, $67.4 million contract extension through 2013. The deal contains $30 million guaranteed, including an $11.5 million signing bonus, Romo's 2008 base salary, and an additional $8.19 million "signing" bonus in 2011.

Vick - 8/29/2011: Signed a six-year, $100 million contract. The deal contains $32.5 million guaranteed, including a $7 million signing bonus and all of Vick's first- and second-year base salaries and $3 million of his 2013 salary (for injury only). The sixth year voids if Vick participates in 35% of the Eagles' offensive snaps in any of the first five seasons, making the contract more realistically worth $80 million over five years. Another $3 million is available through incentives based on Super Bowl wins in 2011 and 2012, and playing time (77.5% of the regular season snaps).

Roethlisberger - 3/3/2008: Signed an eight-year, $102 million contract. The deal contains $33.2 million guaranteed, including a $25.2 million signing bonus and a $3 million roster bonus in the second year. Also included is a clause forbidding Roethlisberger from participating in "hazardous activities," e.g. riding a motorcycle with no helmet.

Cutler - 10/20/2009: Signed a five-year, $49.77 million contract. The deal contains $20 million guaranteed, including a $7 million signing bonus, Cutler's first-year salary, and $3.3 million of his 2010 base pay. Cutler can earn $500,000 workout bonuses in each year 2010-2013.

Fitzpatrick - 10/28/2011: Signed a seven-year, $62.195 million contract. The deal contains $24 million guaranteed, including a $10 million signing bonus.

Sanchez - 3/9/2012: Signed a five-year, $58.25 million contract. The deal contains $20.5 million guaranteed, including an $8 million signing bonus and all of Sanchez's 2012 and 2013 base salaries. Another $10 million is available through escalators. Sanchez is eligible for annual $500,000 workout bonuses throughout the contract's life.

Cassel - 7/14/2009: Signed a six-year, $63 million contract. The deal contains $28 million guaranteed, including a $10 million roster bonus in the first year and a $7.5 million option bonus in the third.

Palmer - 10/18/2011: Signed a four-year, $43 million contract. The deal contains $7.5 million guaranteed, including all of Palmer's first-year salary and $5 million of Palmer's second-year salary.

Kolb - 7/29/2011: Signed a six-year, $65 million contract. The deal contains $12 million guaranteed, including a $10 million signing bonus and Kolb's first-year base salary. Annual $500,000 workout bonuses are available throughout the contract's life.

A. Smith - 3/20/2012: Signed a three-year, $24 million contract. The deal contains $9 million guaranteed -- an initial roster bonus of $3 million, all of Smith's 2012 base salary, and $1 million of his 2013 salary. Another $9 million is available through incentives, though $5.25 million of them are "unlikely to be earned." An annual $250,000 workout bonus is available.

Flynn - 3/18/2012: Signed a three-year, $19.5 million contract. The deal contains $10 million guaranteed -- a $6 million signing bonus, Flynn's 2012 base salary, and $2 million of his second-year salary. Another $5 million is available through escalators. An additional $2 million worth of incentives is available, but is "unlikely to be earned."


I think that's every contract that could be consider relevant, even in the smallest way. Let me know if I missed anybody. I didn't list guys still on their rookie deals like Stafford since those contracts were more based on their draft position than anything.


You named just about all of the main targets, some of those guys will get a significant raise over the next couple of years (Rodgers, Cutler, Romo). We may not like these contracts but these guys play a big time position so they are going to get big time money. With guys like Kolb and Fitzpatrick getting paid good money (QBs who haven't proven a lot to warrant the contracts they are receiving) the price is going to go up more and more for the good to elite QBs like Joe and Aaron Rodgers.
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RavensfanRD


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're not over-paying if your QB is a beast. The Ravens have a beast at QB with OK talent around him. Respect his gangsta and give him his 100 million dollar contract, please.

Or let him take his talents to South Beach and win a championship.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FlaccoForever wrote:
You named just about all of the main targets, some of those guys will get a significant raise over the next couple of years (Rodgers, Cutler, Romo). We may not like these contracts but these guys play a big time position so they are going to get big time money. With guys like Kolb and Fitzpatrick getting paid good money (QBs who haven't proven a lot to warrant the contracts they are receiving) the price is going to go up more and more for the good to elite QBs like Joe and Aaron Rodgers.


I don't know if you meant to include them together but no. Just no. Not even close, and I think Flacco is a pretty good QB.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
FlaccoForever wrote:
You named just about all of the main targets, some of those guys will get a significant raise over the next couple of years (Rodgers, Cutler, Romo). We may not like these contracts but these guys play a big time position so they are going to get big time money. With guys like Kolb and Fitzpatrick getting paid good money (QBs who haven't proven a lot to warrant the contracts they are receiving) the price is going to go up more and more for the good to elite QBs like Joe and Aaron Rodgers.


I don't know if you meant to include them together but no. Just no. Not even close, and I think Flacco is a pretty good QB.

I think you read over this too fast. He said "good to elite" and then said mentioned Flacco and Rodgers. So Flacco equals good and Rodgers equals elite. He included them because the discussion mentioned both players having their extensions come right around the corner.
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FlaccoForever


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
coordinator0 wrote:
FlaccoForever wrote:
You named just about all of the main targets, some of those guys will get a significant raise over the next couple of years (Rodgers, Cutler, Romo). We may not like these contracts but these guys play a big time position so they are going to get big time money. With guys like Kolb and Fitzpatrick getting paid good money (QBs who haven't proven a lot to warrant the contracts they are receiving) the price is going to go up more and more for the good to elite QBs like Joe and Aaron Rodgers.


I don't know if you meant to include them together but no. Just no. Not even close, and I think Flacco is a pretty good QB.

I think you read over this too fast. He said "good to elite" and then said mentioned Flacco and Rodgers. So Flacco equals good and Rodgers equals elite. He included them because the discussion mentioned both players having their extensions come right around the corner.


That's exactly what I meant, good for Joe elite for Aaron. We will find out starting tonight if Joe can take the next step which of course is elite but he's going to get a really good contract at the end of the day.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FlaccoForever wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
coordinator0 wrote:
FlaccoForever wrote:
You named just about all of the main targets, some of those guys will get a significant raise over the next couple of years (Rodgers, Cutler, Romo). We may not like these contracts but these guys play a big time position so they are going to get big time money. With guys like Kolb and Fitzpatrick getting paid good money (QBs who haven't proven a lot to warrant the contracts they are receiving) the price is going to go up more and more for the good to elite QBs like Joe and Aaron Rodgers.


I don't know if you meant to include them together but no. Just no. Not even close, and I think Flacco is a pretty good QB.

I think you read over this too fast. He said "good to elite" and then said mentioned Flacco and Rodgers. So Flacco equals good and Rodgers equals elite. He included them because the discussion mentioned both players having their extensions come right around the corner.


That's exactly what I meant, good for Joe elite for Aaron. We will find out starting tonight if Joe can take the next step which of course is elite but he's going to get a really good contract at the end of the day.

Meh... next step, IMO is very good. Personally I tend to usually define elite as the top 3 QBs in the game... however at the current moment, I think it's safe to say that there are four "elite" QBs in the league: 1. Peyton Manning 2. Tom Brady 3. Aaron Rodgers 4. Drew Brees... but I do hope that Flacco does take the next step and becomes a very good perhaps even great QB. The way I tend to break QBs down are into: elite, great, very good, good, quality, below average, and poor. I tend to bunch each group in 3s. I think great would be hard to attain as Flacco would have to elevate himself above one of the following guys IMO: 5. Phillip Rivers, 6. Big Ben 7. Eli Manning... whereas I think 8-10 is pretty open, many of the people in that group tend to fluctuate. I say best case scenario, by the end of the season Flacco elevates himself above Romo, Ryan, Schaub, Newton, Vick, etc. to be the 8th best QB in the league.


Anyway, in terms of the contract situation. I truly hope the 5 year, $100m deal is just an error in reporting. Hopefully the deal was actually 6 years, $100m because then I'd be comfortable with that amount for the most part. Obviously I still wish we would've signed him last season when he was going through his lows and before we had signed on a new OC and warp the offense into a more explosive unit. If we would've got it done then, I think $15m might've still been a reasonable amount to get it done. Anything above $17m and I start to really dislike it. It's not leaving much for building a strong team when your QB is taking up such a huge percentage of the earned salary... I guess the only good thing is that as long as the trend continues, it should balance itself out in a few years... but at this point, I'm not a fan. Hopefully Joe will be willing to be a bit more reasonable with his demands... give a hometown discount type of thing.
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