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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 1359
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:02 pm    Post subject: OT: Wade Phillips Reply with quote

Suffering Bears fan here... looking at candidates for our defensive coordinator position next year.

Wanted to get your thoughts on Wade Phillips... was surprised to see him convert your 43 to a 34 and have a top 4 scoring defense in the first year. Turned into 9th the following year, and then 24th in 2013.

Would you consider him a good coach? Is he good with young players? What happened in 2013 that was so different from the two preceding years where you were top 10 in points allowed?

Thanks in advance!
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amazingandre


Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:05 pm    Post subject: Re: OT: Wade Phillips Reply with quote

G08 wrote:
Suffering Bears fan here... looking at candidates for our defensive coordinator position next year.

Wanted to get your thoughts on Wade Phillips... was surprised to see him convert your 43 to a 34 and have a top 4 scoring defense in the first year. Turned into 9th the following year, and then 24th in 2013.

Would you consider him a good coach? Is he good with young players? What happened in 2013 that was so different from the two preceding years where you were top 10 in points allowed?

Thanks in advance!


The problem with wade is every where he goes he starts out hot and regresses each year. Teams figure him out and he does nothing to alter his scheme and keep teams guessing. I would pass on him based on that and his age. I don't know if he even wants to coach at this point.
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:30 pm    Post subject: Re: OT: Wade Phillips Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
G08 wrote:
Suffering Bears fan here... looking at candidates for our defensive coordinator position next year.

Wanted to get your thoughts on Wade Phillips... was surprised to see him convert your 43 to a 34 and have a top 4 scoring defense in the first year. Turned into 9th the following year, and then 24th in 2013.

Would you consider him a good coach? Is he good with young players? What happened in 2013 that was so different from the two preceding years where you were top 10 in points allowed?

Thanks in advance!


The problem with wade is every where he goes he starts out hot and regresses each year. Teams figure him out and he does nothing to alter his scheme and keep teams guessing. I would pass on him based on that and his age. I don't know if he even wants to coach at this point.


He's 67, which isn't far off from Dom Capers and is way younger than - LeBeau. Plus he sounds like he's itching to come back, and my stupid team won't have a lot of options with Marc Trestman entering as a lame duck next season.

What doesn't he adjust? Seems like he plays a ton of man coverage...
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Grasspike


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:08 pm    Post subject: Re: OT: Wade Phillips Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
G08 wrote:
Suffering Bears fan here... looking at candidates for our defensive coordinator position next year.

Wanted to get your thoughts on Wade Phillips... was surprised to see him convert your 43 to a 34 and have a top 4 scoring defense in the first year. Turned into 9th the following year, and then 24th in 2013.

Would you consider him a good coach? Is he good with young players? What happened in 2013 that was so different from the two preceding years where you were top 10 in points allowed?

Thanks in advance!


The problem with wade is every where he goes he starts out hot and regresses each year. Teams figure him out and he does nothing to alter his scheme and keep teams guessing. I would pass on him based on that and his age. I don't know if he even wants to coach at this point.


- LeBeau does nothing to alter his scheme and he's fine year after year. That's not the problem--a good scheme is a good scheme, period.

In 2011, pretty much every important player stayed healthy except for Mario Williams. We got a full year out of Cushing, Glover Quin had a breakout year, and Jonathan Joseph had an extraordinary year. In 2012, Joseph regressed some, Cushing got hurt (and left a gaping hole in the middle), and our best pass rusher from the outside was a mediocre Mercilus. In 2013, the bottom fell out. We only had two players start all 16 games, and Shiloh Keo started 11 games at safety. The regression had nothing to do with scheme and everything to do with a dearth of talent.
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:44 pm    Post subject: Re: OT: Wade Phillips Reply with quote

Grasspike wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
G08 wrote:
Suffering Bears fan here... looking at candidates for our defensive coordinator position next year.

Wanted to get your thoughts on Wade Phillips... was surprised to see him convert your 43 to a 34 and have a top 4 scoring defense in the first year. Turned into 9th the following year, and then 24th in 2013.

Would you consider him a good coach? Is he good with young players? What happened in 2013 that was so different from the two preceding years where you were top 10 in points allowed?

Thanks in advance!


The problem with wade is every where he goes he starts out hot and regresses each year. Teams figure him out and he does nothing to alter his scheme and keep teams guessing. I would pass on him based on that and his age. I don't know if he even wants to coach at this point.


- LeBeau does nothing to alter his scheme and he's fine year after year. That's not the problem--a good scheme is a good scheme, period.

In 2011, pretty much every important player stayed healthy except for Mario Williams. We got a full year out of Cushing, Glover Quin had a breakout year, and Jonathan Joseph had an extraordinary year. In 2012, Joseph regressed some, Cushing got hurt (and left a gaping hole in the middle), and our best pass rusher from the outside was a mediocre Mercilus. In 2013, the bottom fell out. We only had two players start all 16 games, and Shiloh Keo started 11 games at safety. The regression had nothing to do with scheme and everything to do with a dearth of talent.


So for a team that's ranked 31st or 32nd in points allowed (yay), would you consider Wade Phillips a good coach to come in and turn around scheme/culture and coach up some young talent for the next, oh, 3-5 years?
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Grasspike


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say so. Your D is better equipped than we were for conversion. Paea and Ratliff should man the nose fairly well between the two of them, and Sutton can probably play 3-4 DE. Phillips won't turn y'all into a defensive juggernaut, but you'll be better than you are now.
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G08


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grasspike wrote:
I'd say so. Your D is better equipped than we were for conversion. Paea and Ratliff should man the nose fairly well between the two of them, and Sutton can probably play 3-4 DE. Phillips won't turn y'all into a defensive juggernaut, but you'll be better than you are now.


Hell, that's all I can ask for at this point.

Lamarr Houston's played at 290+ in the past so I think he can handle 3-4 DE as well. Jared Allen I think is comparable to Antonio Smith in size so I'm not worried about him either.

Willie Young, though. Where would you put him? Dude has 9 sacks on the year in spot duty and I'd hate to misuse that. Maybe make him the WILL backer, who mostly rushes in Phillips' D?
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G08 wrote:
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LORK 88


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The offense put the defense in terrible spots often. It would help explain why Houston gave up the 7th fewest yards per game, but was 24th in points per game.
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G08


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was there anything you guys disliked/hated about his defense?

One of my buddies said he played way too much man defense, even when he was getting consistently burned.

Did he ever call zones out of his base set, or only when the nickel was in?
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G08 wrote:
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dsorc


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G08 wrote:
Was there anything you guys disliked/hated about his defense?

One of my buddies said he played way too much man defense, even when he was getting consistently burned.

Did he ever call zones out of his base set, or only when the nickel was in?

Not much zone in either base or dime. We rarely played nickel under Phllips. Almost exclusively cover two, as well.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G08 wrote:
Was there anything you guys disliked/hated about his defense?

One of my buddies said he played way too much man defense, even when he was getting consistently burned.

Did he ever call zones out of his base set, or only when the nickel was in?


Forgive my boardmates as all Texan fans know how to do is blame/credit the QB. Wade got a virtual free pass during his time in Houston because his defense was such a massive improvement over the abysmal regimes of lightweight Kubiak cronies Richard Smith and Frank Bush and his final two years coincided with the implosion of the offense so nobody paid much attention to the degradation of the defense under his leadership. He came in and left just as his entire career has arched with a great first year followed by rapidly diminishing returns.

Wade is a "players coach" to a fault and I attribute the "bump" in performance in his first year to his relatively simple scheme allows players to play to their strengths and freeing them from whatever schematic elements were holding them back under the previous regime. The problem is that Wade's defenses also become highly undisciplined and opposing OCs begin to easily pick apart individual player tendencies and Wade does little actual coaching to overcome these tendencies. I think Wade is a great offseason coach in identifying who can do what and adjust his scheme, but he is awful in making adjustments on the fly once injuries set in and he is pretty useless in gameplanning opponents which is likely why he has never had much postseason success. Most critically, Wade is ill equipped to gameplan against modern offenses featuring 3 & 4 WR sets, or explosive TE's and all you have to do is watch tape of Green Bay, New Orleans, Indy, and NE to know that Wade was never going to be a coach that gets you past elite offenses or QBs (which would be a problem in the same division as GB/Rodgers). The most maddening aspect of Wade's defenses is his complete inability to adjust within a game, so when a team finds a vulnerability they will just exploit it repeatedly all day like when Eli kept marching right down the center of the field because Roy Williams couldn't cover the TE or when Brees just walked down the field in 10 yard increments with passes to Lance Moore in the slot because Kareem Jackson was clueless on how to stop it.

Finally, I'll address the "talent" issue that my Texans breathren have referenced. Wade's arrival here coincided with us drafting a guy named JJ Watt and signing Pro Bowler Johnathan Joseph CB and Daniel Manning and moving Quin to safety where he belonged. Antonio Smith and Cushing were already top 5 players at their positions 4-3 or 3-4 and Mario was unstoppable those first 5 games. We had Connor Barwin and DeMeco Ryans who Wade couldn't figure out how to use and they were dominating in Philly this year. 1st rounder Mercilus was largely wasted under Phillips and 2nd rounder Brooks Reed never improved on the skillset he came into the league with. On the flip side, it was Wade and Wade alone who kept running clearly deficient "favorites" like Alan Ball and Bradie James out there despite them get destroyed and he clearly had no idea what to do with Ed Reed and let him poison the locker room instead of recognizing the need to have him as an ally.

I don't think you'll find any Texans that don't love Wade Phillips as a man. He is a nice guy and a class act and a cuddly character you want to root for. He probably would do a decent job of getting the Bears defense back to respectability although I like him better with vets than young teams like yours (assuming your 2015 draft is defensive oriented as it should be). He needs to be paired with a strong up and coming young mind who can share the load since Wade is not a spring chicken, he can handle the newer offensive schemes and who can be groomed to take over after two years. We SHOULD have been grooming someone here, but Kubiak was so insecure about having anyone he couldn't control that bright young minds who weren't related to his mentor, Shanny, were not permitted around the Texans.
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G08


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply... So do you think the game just passed him by when it comes to elite QBs and offenses?
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Dawgtx


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For all of his faults and weaknesses, he is fully capable getting your defense into the top ten/near top ten.

With and offense that does what it should, it should put you in playoff contention.

My opinion is.....you could do a lot worse! As Apollo mentioned, Richard Smith and Frank Bush are out there for comparison?!
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Grasspike


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G08 wrote:
Thanks for the reply... So do you think the game just passed him by when it comes to elite QBs and offenses?


No. Good offenses score a lot of points against everyone. There are maybe a couple of defensive coordinators that are capable of top 10 defenses year in and year out. Wade isn't one of them, but he's at the very top of the second tier. He'll instantly improve your D, and as long as you have talent, he'll keep you there.

The logic behind him not being able to adjust doesn't make sense. The NFL adjusts to young players because they underestimate their abilities. They don't gameplan for something unless they have seen it, because it's a waste of time and effort to gameplan for something that's never happened. Wade's been around for 30 years. Everyone knows his tricks. But it takes them two years to figure him out again?
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G08


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All very good points.

I just know Marc Trestman is entering next year as a lame duck and Wade Phillips is itching for a job. We have his old LBs coach here in Reggie Herring as well as his old DL coach in Paul Pasqualoni. Both have done well with the young talent that we have so I don't expect them to be fired.

The most local thing then would be to fire Tucker and bring in Phillips, right?

The question is: Would Phillips bet on himself and Marc Trestman to not be a one-and-done coach? Outside of that, I haven't heard much clamoring for other teams being interested in his services.
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