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Any hope for the O-Line?
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bzane


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 565
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:53 pm    Post subject: Any hope for the O-Line? Reply with quote

The Giants' offensive line has pretty clearly fallen on hard times.

I believe they got complacent about it in recent years, and have neglected it on draft day. They either thought- mistakenly-that they had enough good linemen on board; or that they could re-stock by drafting middle-round "project" players, like Brewer last year and Mosely this year, and hoping that they would develop.

Now they're paying for it. They had the worst rushing offense in the NFL last year. It appears to be no better this year, and the pressure on Eli is getting worse. There's no push up the middle on running plays, and I can't think of a worse set of tackles in the league than Diehl and Sean Locklear. The Giants are starting backup-grade players.

Clearly, they need to draft offensive linemen. They need to draft some in higher rounds if they're ever to have quality. I don't think there's much argument there.

My question is, and I'm asking for the members here who see the games more than I do, is there any hope for the current O-line being competitive this year? Baas getting better, Beatty returning at full health, Snee playing back to his former standard, Diehl becoming a serviceable right tackle, Petrus contributing? OR, are the Giants going to field a poor offensive line all season long?
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reckless123


Joined: 02 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA7W01d4ohg&feature=results_video


WARNING: terrible blocking.
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redsoxsuck05


Joined: 16 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing that sticks out about JR is how different he is than past Giants GMs.

He is great at drafting and scavenging for good receivers and likes to pick CBs early, two positions the Giants were never known for having an abundance of. At the same time, his biggest disappointment is doing almost nothing to alleviate an aging O-Line despite the writing being on the wall for several years. I'd also add that NYG were known for their LBs more-so than their D-Line, but that happened circa Accorsi.

Hard to criticize JR with the results, however.
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GmenSeattle


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

reckless123 wrote:
Check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA7W01d4ohg&feature=results_video


WARNING: terrible blocking.


Right around the 2:20 mark is what I'm talking about. Half of our O-line is on the ground.
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Gmen


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's especially disheartening because Baas, Snee and Deihl are slated to get get paid a combined 15 million next year, and all three look to clearly be on the wrong side of their career.

I'm hard pressed to say it, but maybe Beatty and Brewer getting healthy is a glimmer of hope. Beatty was solid for us when healthy. Maybe his return could move Locklear to RT and Deihl to the bench. Maybe get Brewer in at RT and see if in game experience brings out his talent, because he's very physically gifted.

I'd say there is some hope. But I will once again be hoping for a offensive lineman early in next year's draft.
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IR0NM1KE


Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gmen wrote:
It's especially disheartening because Baas, Snee and Deihl are slated to get get paid a combined 15 million next year, and all three look to clearly be on the wrong side of their career.

I'm hard pressed to say it, but maybe Beatty and Brewer getting healthy is a glimmer of hope. Beatty was solid for us when healthy. Maybe his return could move Locklear to RT and Deihl to the bench. Maybe get Brewer in at RT and see if in game experience brings out his talent, because he's very physically gifted.

I'd say there is some hope. But I will once again be hoping for a offensive lineman early in next year's draft.


I think we could be decent this year, but we have to be willing to open our eyes on a few thnigs. One of the main issues is that Deihl is awful. He could start as a OG, but I am starting to think he is more of a platoon type player. I'd like to see Beatty and Brewer as well. I'll continue to beat the Petrus drum even though most don't think he is worth a damn. If we want to run the ball at all, we should give him a few snaps and see how he fairs. To me, Snee is the only person on our OL who is safe. Everyone else should be fighting for a shot to become part of the new unit. I know we all want cohesiveness on the OL and I am not dismissing that. But I am already sick of these guys after 1 game. Next week they better come out and show some tenacity. I don't care if it is Boothe, Brewer, Petrus, Locklear, or whoever... someone needs to step up in a big way.

Our pass blocking is bad, and our run blocking is an EMBARRASSMENT.
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GEE MEN


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

perhaps they will shake things up? Maybe it's time to have a lineup of:

Beatty, Diehl, Boothe, Snee and Brew. Baas is AWFUL!!!!
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IR0NM1KE


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GEE MEN wrote:
perhaps they will shake things up? Maybe it's time to have a lineup of:

Beatty, Diehl, Boothe, Snee and Brew. Baas is AWFUL!!!!

Sign me up. The only thing I worry about is Boothe's snapping capabilities.
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bzane


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What bothers me is the way they keep turning a blind eye to what seems to me a glaring problem, year after year, come draft day.

I understand, and agree with, the Giants' Best-Player-Available philosophy- when it nets you Jason Pierre-Paul, even though you already have good DE's, there can't be much argument against it. But when as a consequence an entire unit- the five-man offensive line- is allowed to wither away and not rebuilt from within- well, something is wrong.

I understand also, and generally applaud, the Giants' refusal to make positional reaches for need. In the 2011 draft, there were question marks about all the offensive tackles available in the middle of the first round- Solder and Carimi and Castonzo- and the Giants stuck to their board, drafting the Prince (the fact that he's been injury-prone and has yet to do much is not relevant here). But should there not come a time when they trade down, and draft an O-lineman in a round where he's a value pick, and perhaps get other picks in the bargain?

Hard to argue against the selection of David Wilson as the last pick in Round 1 this past April- from the flashes he's shown, he could well be a special running back. And it was probably a good thing they didn't over-draft one of the O-line prospects who went in Round 2- Cordy Glenn and Amini Silatolu; Mitchell Schwartz and Peter Konz. But how many yards will David Wilson run for if he has no help from his line? How many times will Eli be pressured and sacked?

How many games will they win?

Perhaps Jerry Reese- and he's one of the best GM's in the business- believes they can field a serviceable O-line from mid-round draft picks, and developmental guys.

I think the results on the field say otherwise.

It would be nice to have Cordy Glenn or Amini Silatolu opening some holes for the running game right now. Should they have taken either one over David Wilson? Of course not. But maybe they should have traded down a few picks for an extra second, and drafted one of them in his proper place. If you build a strong enough line, you can play running-by-comittee, and get good results. Better results than you'll get with a star RB getting hit behind the line of scrimmage, because he gets no push from his line.

Well, here's hoping for Beatty and Brewer to come through, this season. But I hope the Giants do something for their offensive line next April.
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GEE MEN


Joined: 16 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IR0NM1KE wrote:
GEE MEN wrote:
perhaps they will shake things up? Maybe it's time to have a lineup of:

Beatty, Diehl, Boothe, Snee and Brew. Baas is AWFUL!!!!

Sign me up. The only thing I worry about is Boothe's snapping capabilities.


You're 100% on Boothe. He throws some popups and grounders but the team (run/pass) plays much better. Locklear and Diehl can't play tackle. Eli will not last if either plays tackle.
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Xfaxtor


Joined: 14 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GEE MEN wrote:
perhaps they will shake things up? Maybe it's time to have a lineup of:

Beatty, Diehl, Boothe, Snee and Brew. Baas is AWFUL!!!!


So is Diehl though. hes one of the worst starting O-lineman in the league, doesnt matter much if its tackle or guard. I honestly think that lineup would fare about the same. Brewer looks far from ready.

Beatty isnt playing because hes injured, again, so not much to do about that one.
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Shockey1979


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been harping about the O-line for years. The way Reese drafts with BPA is great. But we have ignored the O-line for to long and it's really starting to show over the last 2 years. We draft to many project guys and no starter potential.
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Eli(the)Manning


Joined: 27 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the way this team has been run under Jerry Reese there is always hope.

In '08 we had no recievers...

Recently we had no LB's, now I think the solid, young depth we have there will be a cornerstone for this season. Nothing flashy but solid, and trending upward.

The o-line looked less then sterling on Wednesday, and taking into account how strong they have been in the recent past, it does sting a little more.

But I am not sold its a lack of talent, I think what it is, is the Giants tendency to sleepwalk thru the first 2 GAMES OF THE SEASON ALMOST EVERY YEAR

*The first 10 quarters of '07
*The yawn inducing opener of '08
*The sloppy win against a terrible Panthers team, and the lack of defense in week 2's shootout at the (then new) Cowboys stadium to start the '09 campaign.
*An even sloppier win against an even worse Panthers team during week 1 and the meltdown in Indy during week 2 of 2010.
*The migraine inducing opener from last year.

This has been a trend. The entire team is like me early: confused, disoriented and proabably stumbling.

There's belief that this team stars hot, and I don't believe that's entirely accurate, I think we stumble out of bed and by the time the coffee takes its effect its October and thats when we start getting hot (check out Coughlins W-L's in the month of October)

This falls on Coughlin and company's shoulders more then Reese. Jerry is not completely blame free(the LB situation went on WAY longer then it should have, and contributes to a problem like this for example). But almost every year I feel like week one is actually just the 5th pre-season game. I love Coughlin, a lot, but he struggles to convey urgency in September.

And I think that's why, not a lack of talent on the o-line, we struggled. The o-line is just like every other unit on the team that's guilty of playing like this. This isn't the strongest line Jerry has put together, but I think the Giants can win the division again with them (shuffiling more then likely in order), they just need time to iron out the(obnoxious) wrinkles, and develop the chemistry prior incarnations of this unit were famous for.

Also, we probably underestimated Dallas's d. I know I am guilty of this, they may not be the '85 Bears, but their no joke either.
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bballbkd1001


Joined: 04 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well my ideal oline would be:
Beatty-petrus-boothe-snee-brewer/locklear

Beatty is mature enough, let him play
Petrus, despite the poor preseason and average pass blocker, he is a great run blocker
Boothe-Cornell guy who has always played well when giving the opportunity
Snee is the veteran for us
Brew and lock will battle it out
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Xfaxtor


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the era of the salary cap. You cant have studs everywere and its not like we have completely neglected the O-Line. We have a lot of money tied up in Diehl, Baas, Snee and Beatty was a high pick. Thats 4 outta 5. It really criples you when does guys play poorly or not at all, because you cant really justify spending that kind of money on back ups..
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