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big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steadypimpin wrote:
That's why that stat sucks. Is Alex the reason the Cheifs are 9-0? I'd say no. He's along for the ride doing the bare minimum like he was with us. I mean look at what he did yesterday, 120+ yards. Hell, the Cheifs D scored 14 of the 23 points. If the D didn't score they would've lost. I'd say Alex is benefiting from a beast defense again. When they see the Broncos or anyone good they're going to get stomped.


Best winning percentage over a three year period for two different teams, one of which only won 2 games last year - and you somehow still think that is all just a coincidence!

The other option is that maybe you should re-evaluate what is really important in a QB. and maybe you should value some attributes more highly than you do. First and foremost - above everything else - a QB must take care of the ball, and not throw Ints. Fact is Alex has been about as good as anyone in the entire league at this. Just from how few he's thrown each of these past three years I'm guessing his int rate is just about the lowest in the league. I think it's NOT a coincidence that his low int rate goes hand in hand with his high win rate. The team that loses the turnover battle loses the game a lot more often than not. Look at the games from these other good to great QBs yesterday:

- Dalton - 3 ints and a loss
- Ryan - 3 ints and a loss
- Brees - 2 ints and a loss
- Rivers - 2 ints and a loss

Alex almost never has games like that, which is a good part of the reason why his teams always have a chance to win the game. Yep, lucky win for KC on Sunday. On the other hand it was the other QB who threw a pick 6 that cost them the game, not Alex.

I understand. You watch an amazing throw and you think "wow". But you see a QB throw the ball away instead of putting up a dangerous throw and instead of thinking "nice decision", you think "guy won't take chances". But I ask you, over a 3-year period, which approach leads to more wins?
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y2lamanaki


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

49ers Finest wrote:
steadypimpin wrote:
That's why that stat sucks. Is Alex the reason the Cheifs are 9-0? I'd say no. He's along for the ride doing the bare minimum like he was with us. I mean look at what he did yesterday, 120+ yards. Hell, the Cheifs D scored 14 of the 23 points. If the D didn't score they would've lost. I'd say Alex is benefiting from a beast defense again. When they see the Broncos or anyone good they're going to get stomped.

you know they were the WORST team in the league last year right


The defense already has nine more sacks than they had all of last year already. They also have 12 more turnovers this season than they did all of last year already as well. Plus the difference of replacing Romeo Crennel with Andy Reid is a large reason for the turnaround as well.

Still - people are kidding themselves if they don't think Alex is playing a role in that, but Alex is far from the only, or even the most important reason the Chiefs are 9-0 from 2-14 last year. It's a combination of him, a much-improved defense, and Andy Reid.
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oldman9er


Joined: 24 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

y2lamanaki wrote:

Still - people are kidding themselves if they don't think Alex is playing a role in that, but Alex is far from the only, or even the most important reason the Chiefs are 9-0 from 2-14 last year. It's a combination of him, a much-improved defense, and Andy Reid.



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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
I understand. You watch an amazing throw and you think "wow".



Alex can make "wow" throws too, that's one of the things that is overlooked about his game. It's just that Alex is playing the percentage in a different way, compared to other QBs. Other QBs think that by attempting enough "wow" throws, they'll get a decent percentage of big plays. Alex only attempts those throws if he has to, so that he can minimize the percentage of those throws that end up in a disaster. I always go back to that last drive against the Saints in the playoffs. Alex makes one hell of a throw down the right sideline, but Brett Freakin' Swain had slowed down midway through his route and happened to be a step late to make the catch. That throw was perfect, yet Alex didn't get any credit for it, because it wasn't caught. He makes a good number of those great throws, but people choose to focus on other things, like diminishing his accomplishment by denigrating his checkdowns. I watched the KC game, yesterday, and Alex almost always threw to his third read. Yet I suppose people will still say he can't go through his progressions... there is still severe anti-Alex bias out there. But the fact is, the guy wins.
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49ers Finest


Joined: 28 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UofMfan909 wrote:
49ers Finest wrote:
steadypimpin wrote:
That's why that stat sucks. Is Alex the reason the Cheifs are 9-0? I'd say no. He's along for the ride doing the bare minimum like he was with us. I mean look at what he did yesterday, 120+ yards. Hell, the Cheifs D scored 14 of the 23 points. If the D didn't score they would've lost. I'd say Alex is benefiting from a beast defense again. When they see the Broncos or anyone good they're going to get stomped.

you know they were the WORST team in the league last year right


Exactly. Do you really think Smith turns the worst team in the league to a 9-0 one himself? That's insane.

i didnt say that but he is def more than just along for the ride

cassel was there for the ride with that d.... and well that didnt go so well
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steadypimpin


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get it. You guys love Alex but take your blinders off for a minute. That Cheifs situation is eerily similar to ours.

New coach comes in.
Defense is pretty much the same personnel as the prior year. Offense too.
Here comes Alex doing the bare minimum while the defense plays out of their minds. You guys are lying if you think Alex's 128 yard game and 50's pass % helped them win yesterday. Yeah he got no interceptions but he also got the offense no touchdowns, just three FGs. Sounds pretty similar right? Alex isn't even as efficient this year as he has only 1919 yards and 9TDs 4 INTs with a 59% comp.
The Cheifs were 2-14 but they had talent everyone knew that. 9 pro bowlers on a 2-14 team says a lot.

If Charles goes down or their defense has an average game he won't be able to win them a game. Plus they have played a [inappropriate/removed] poor schedule so far. Any team should be 9-0 playing against 2nd and 3rd string QBs every week.
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oldman9er


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steadypimpin wrote:
I get it. You guys love Alex but take your blinders off for a minute. That Cheifs situation is eerily similar to ours.

New coach comes in.
Defense is pretty much the same personnel as the prior year. Offense too.
Here comes Alex doing the bare minimum while the defense plays out of their minds. You guys are lying if you think Alex's 128 yard game and 50's pass % helped them win yesterday. Yeah he got no interceptions but he also got the offense no touchdowns, just three FGs. Sounds pretty similar right? Alex isn't even as efficient this year as he has only 1919 yards and 9TDs 4 INTs with a 59% comp.
The Cheifs were 2-14 but they had talent everyone knew that. 9 pro bowlers on a 2-14 team says a lot.

If Charles goes down or their defense has an average game he won't be able to win them a game. Plus they have played a [inappropriate/removed] poor schedule so far. Any team should be 9-0 playing against 2nd and 3rd string QBs every week.


Laughing Laughing Laughing
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J-ALL-DAY


Joined: 17 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, you have a point that yesterday's win had very little to do with Smith. Heck, the defense scored nearly 60% of their points. But he's leading a 9-0 team and helped us pick up a extra 2nd rounder Dancing Dancing Dancing .
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UofMfan909


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing with Smith is he'll give you a statistically great chance at winning with his playstyle if you have a certain type of team. The no turnover type game only wins you games if you're able to consistently win the field position battle and dominate time of possession. We thrived playing this style with him. But it takes a great defense, a solid running game, and good special teams to really be able to maximize what Smith brings to the table. He's literally the perfect game manager type who can make some great throws down the field, but he's still not Kaepernick in the sense that he can win you games when other parts of the team are failing.
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steadypimpin


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great way to add to the convo Oldie. I never expect anything less from you.

Wait until the Chiefs play the Broncos next week. They are averaging over 30 points a game. Do you guys think Alex ball will win that game? I have a feeling the chiefs are going to be in for a reality check next week. The Broncos will probably start out slow but that defense can't hold everyone on Denver's offense and once the score gets over 21 it will be fun to watch Alex and his offense curl up into a little ball and die for the rest of that game.
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steadypimpin


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UofMfan909 wrote:
The thing with Smith is he'll give you a statistically great chance at winning with his playstyle if you have a certain type of team. The no turnover type game only wins you games if you're able to consistently win the field position battle and dominate time of possession. We thrived playing this style with him. But it takes a great defense, a solid running game, and good special teams to really be able to maximize what Smith brings to the table. He's literally the perfect game manager type who can make some great throws down the field, but he's still not Kaepernick in the sense that he can win you games when other parts of the team are failing.
Exactly. Even if all that is perfect the Chiefs won't be playing against Tuel, Case Keenums, Pryors in the playoffs. They're gonna be playing against Manning, Brady, Dalton, Luck... all are offenses that can move the ball and score.

There has been maybe two games this year where Alex has been a major part of the win. The other times he's throwing for 150 yards if that and no TDs or INTs.

The last seven games will tell us what kind of team the Cheifs really are when they play Denver and SD twice, Was, Oak & the Colts.
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J-ALL-DAY


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UofMfan909 wrote:
The thing with Smith is he'll give you a statistically great chance at winning with his playstyle if you have a certain type of team. The no turnover type game only wins you games if you're able to consistently win the field position battle and dominate time of possession. We thrived playing this style with him. But it takes a great defense, a solid running game, and good special teams to really be able to maximize what Smith brings to the table. He's literally the perfect game manager type who can make some great throws down the field, but he's still not Kaepernick in the sense that he can win you games when other parts of the team are failing.


Of course, Harbaugh sensed the same thing and that's why we went with Kaepernick last year. Smith absolutely won us the game in the 4th quarter against the Saints, but before that our offense literally went 25 minutes without doing much of anything.

Last year our defense was obviously banged up so it was our offense that carried us to the Super Bowl. Kaepernick was dynamic and we will likely need those types of performances this postseason as well.
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J-ALL-DAY


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steadypimpin wrote:
Great way to add to the convo Oldie. I never expect anything less from you.

Wait until the Chiefs play the Broncos next week. They are averaging over 30 points a game. Do you guys think Alex ball will win that game? I have a feeling the chiefs are going to be in for a reality check next week. The Broncos will probably start out slow but that defense can't hold everyone on Denver's offense and once the score gets over 21 it will be fun to watch Alex and his offense curl up into a little ball and die for the rest of that game.


Honestly, I expect the Chiefs defense to hold their own and get physical with the Broncos WRs. I don't think we will see a blowout, and Smith should be able to do some things against that defense. We could easily be seeing a 24-20 or 24-17 type of game.
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oldman9er


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J-ALL-DAY wrote:
Sure, you have a point that yesterday's win had very little to do with Smith.


Let's recap.

The Chiefs D gave up 241 rushing yds against Buffalo. That's not all that important though.

The Bills are up 7-0 going into the 2nd half. In the 1st half, the Chiefs had 4 drives, aside from a final one with 1:47 left. On three of them, they were 4 or more minutes. in the 2nd Q, Alex led a FG drive that came up short because Dexter McC got drilled and couldn't get an extra yard of YAC.

so it's 7-3

The Bills answered by driving a 5+ minute FG drive against the KC D.

In that 1:47 left drive to respond, Dexter McC drops a perfect deep ball that would easily have gone as a 50+ yard TD pass.... dropped.

Then the Bills drive yet again in 3rd Q... Sean Smith INT for a 100 yd TD return.

10-10

Then Alex puts a FG drive together to separate and gain the lead 13-10.

Then the KC D gives up another long FG drive... 13-13

4th quarter...

Bowe drops a 3rd and 4 pass to kill the drive...

Then Tamba Hali returns a fumble for a TD... 20-13

with 6 minutes left, Alex and the offense drive for another FG and add to their lead... now 23- 13. Game over.

So those wanting to imagine that Alex didn't contribute nicely to this win? Yes, I will laugh at.


... and KC had 6 ProBowlers last season... and only one was on offense... Jamaal Charles... who also happens to rank 23rd in RB success. Granted, much of that can be thanks to the crap OL blocks.

KC is top 10 in the league for offensive penalties. They are also top 10 in dropped passes.

KC is ranked 16th in offensive efficiency. Now that is a stat to pay attention to. 16th isn't grand... but for a yr 1 team with large OL and drop issues? 16th ain't so bad.
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J-ALL-DAY


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, yesterday Smith had little to do with the win. There is nothing needed to defend, the defense scored more points than the offense and that is a fact.

Would you say Kaepernick was a big reason we beat the Texans?
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