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Saints players win appeal
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JaguarCrazy2832


Joined: 28 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is total BS
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phinmun


Joined: 29 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't help but wonder what other players are going to think of guys like Vilma who apparently took money with the intent to injure other players and then fought tooth and nail to try and avoid the ramifications of getting caught.


As an engineer, I want engineers who do shoddy work to get prosecuted for their crimes. I want people who break the rules and make my profession look bad in the public eye to be held accountable for their actions. If I design a building and it falls down, I'm accountable. That means something to me.


If I was a player on another team I would not have positive feelings toward these guys fighting this fight against the punishment it appears on the outside they fully deserve.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing I'll never understand about this is how Roman Harper wasn't suspended. Guy must have some crazy black mail on Godell because when this was announced I think every Saints fan in America immediately thought Harper would be missing quite a few games. Guys a pretty dirty player Laughing
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
The only thing I'll never understand about this is how Roman Harper wasn't suspended. Guy must have some crazy black mail on Godell because when this was announced I think every Saints fan in America immediately thought Harper would be missing quite a few games. Guys a pretty dirty player Laughing


My first thought was "Welp, Harper's gone for the season."

Laughing Laughing
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BlackandBlue


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

phinmun wrote:
I can't help but wonder what other players are going to think of guys like Vilma who apparently took money with the intent to injure other players and then fought tooth and nail to try and avoid the ramifications of getting caught.


As an engineer, I want engineers who do shoddy work to get prosecuted for their crimes. I want people who break the rules and make my profession look bad in the public eye to be held accountable for their actions. If I design a building and it falls down, I'm accountable. That means something to me.


If I was a player on another team I would not have positive feelings toward these guys fighting this fight against the punishment it appears on the outside they fully deserve.


Yea, because no other team ever did anything like this. Right.
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phinmun


Joined: 29 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackandBlue wrote:
phinmun wrote:
I can't help but wonder what other players are going to think of guys like Vilma who apparently took money with the intent to injure other players and then fought tooth and nail to try and avoid the ramifications of getting caught.


As an engineer, I want engineers who do shoddy work to get prosecuted for their crimes. I want people who break the rules and make my profession look bad in the public eye to be held accountable for their actions. If I design a building and it falls down, I'm accountable. That means something to me.


If I was a player on another team I would not have positive feelings toward these guys fighting this fight against the punishment it appears on the outside they fully deserve.


Yea, because no other team ever did anything like this. Right.


I didn't say the Saints were the only team that should be punished if they were caught playing dirty.

Actually--and I know this might come as a surprise--I think EVERYONE that does that should be penalized.
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

phinmun wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:
phinmun wrote:
I can't help but wonder what other players are going to think of guys like Vilma who apparently took money with the intent to injure other players and then fought tooth and nail to try and avoid the ramifications of getting caught.


As an engineer, I want engineers who do shoddy work to get prosecuted for their crimes. I want people who break the rules and make my profession look bad in the public eye to be held accountable for their actions. If I design a building and it falls down, I'm accountable. That means something to me.


If I was a player on another team I would not have positive feelings toward these guys fighting this fight against the punishment it appears on the outside they fully deserve.


Yea, because no other team ever did anything like this. Right.


I didn't say the Saints were the only team that should be punished if they were caught playing dirty.

Actually--and I know this might come as a surprise--I think EVERYONE that does that should be penalized.


Harper wasn't arguing that they shouldn't be punished though. You're arguing against a point he never made.
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tml_gogo


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On one hand, if the Saints were indeed running some kind of bounty program, I'm extremely disappointed in this decision. On the other, if they were not, I'm so unbelievably happy to see Roger Goodell get snubbed. Unfortunately, neither me nor any other posters here are privy to the real facts or 'evidence', so we can't really judge if this was a good move or not.
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mco65


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tml_gogo wrote:
On one hand, if the Saints were indeed running some kind of bounty program, I'm extremely disappointed in this decision. On the other, if they were not, I'm so unbelievably happy to see Roger Goodell get snubbed. Unfortunately, neither me nor any other posters here are privy to the real facts or 'evidence', so we can't really judge if this was a good move or not.


Agreed but how insane would it be for Roger Goddell to push this issue if in fact there was NO TRUTH to it... ?? And if there was NO TRUTH to it, why did coach Payton, DC Williams and GM Loomis simply take their medicine and go home... ?

Also, given the fact that we all heard the audio tape that was released from last seasons pregame speech before the Playoff Game between the Niners and Saints.. if the players were not involved in such tactics you would have thought one of them would have spoken up and said, NO.. we don't play that way.. but I didn't hear anything from them and that leads me to believe there is something to this..

There may be some flimsy evidence and I don't mind the players fighting for reinstatement.. heck Payton will be back next year and probably for another 20 years but the players have no such safety net.. they have a few years left and then they will have to fend for themselves.. so i get why they are fighting the issue.

Karma has a way of taking care of things like this and I personally think we saw a bit of that Karma yesterday in the Super Dome..
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tytalton


Joined: 12 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the most important things to take out of this whole mess are -

1) the importance of conducting a proper investigation and looking at things from all sides - and letting the evidence decide what can be proved i.e. if there was an intent to injure program maybe find one play that shows an intent to injure rather than attributing causality to some random play which results in an injury and then running with it to the extend Goodell's slugs did.

2) don't go to FF if you have legal questions
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kilahchris


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I honestly think that Roger Godell has bit off more than he can chew here. This legal fight will head back to court where Roger will have to prove his case.

The Defamation lawsuit is a killer because it will force Goodell to defend his actions and reveal evidence that support the action. Evidence other than hearsay.

Roger should swallow his pride and cut some type of deal with Vilma. I can't see the NFL winning this battle.
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kilahchris wrote:
I honestly think that Roger Godell has bit off more than he can chew here. This legal fight will head back to court where Roger will have to prove his case.

The Defamation lawsuit is a killer because it will force Goodell to defend his actions and reveal evidence that support the action. Evidence other than hearsay.

Roger should swallow his pride and cut some type of deal with Vilma. I can't see the NFL winning this battle.
You clearly don't understand the legal system, Goddell is a defendant, the burden of proof is on Vilma. Vilma has to prove that Goddell doesn't a) have the power to suspend players in the NFL for a pay to injury system (which he does) and that Goddell doesn't really believe that Vilma was part of the pay for injury system (which he does).

Defamation is probably the toughest suit in any situation to win. You have to show that the defendant either w/ malice, or reckless negligence lied in order to intentionaly negatively effect the perception of your character. With the technicality question being taken care of following the Burbank decision, there is little chance that this case ever even gets heard. The labor friendly judge the first time around admitted she didn't think she had the power to intervene, now there's even less of a chance.
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
kilahchris wrote:
I honestly think that Roger Godell has bit off more than he can chew here. This legal fight will head back to court where Roger will have to prove his case.

The Defamation lawsuit is a killer because it will force Goodell to defend his actions and reveal evidence that support the action. Evidence other than hearsay.

Roger should swallow his pride and cut some type of deal with Vilma. I can't see the NFL winning this battle.
You clearly don't understand the legal system, Goddell is a defendant, the burden of proof is on Vilma. Vilma has to prove that Goddell doesn't a) have the power to suspend players in the NFL for a pay to injury system (which he does) and that Goddell doesn't really believe that Vilma was part of the pay for injury system (which he does).

Defamation is probably the toughest suit in any situation to win. You have to show that the defendant either w/ malice, or reckless negligence lied in order to intentionaly negatively effect the perception of your character. With the technicality question being taken care of following the Burbank decision, there is little chance that this case ever even gets heard. The labor friendly judge the first time around admitted she didn't think she had the power to intervene, now there's even less of a chance.


This.

One thing I don't understand, by the way, is why people want to see Goodell embarassed so badly. I mean, if the Saints did this, then he is absolutely behaving 100% properly as commissioner IMO.
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kilahchris


Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
kilahchris wrote:
I honestly think that Roger Godell has bit off more than he can chew here. This legal fight will head back to court where Roger will have to prove his case.

The Defamation lawsuit is a killer because it will force Goodell to defend his actions and reveal evidence that support the action. Evidence other than hearsay.

Roger should swallow his pride and cut some type of deal with Vilma. I can't see the NFL winning this battle.
You clearly don't understand the legal system, Goddell is a defendant, the burden of proof is on Vilma. Vilma has to prove that Goddell doesn't a) have the power to suspend players in the NFL for a pay to injury system (which he does) and that Goddell doesn't really believe that Vilma was part of the pay for injury system (which he does).

Defamation is probably the toughest suit in any situation to win. You have to show that the defendant either w/ malice, or reckless negligence lied in order to intentionaly negatively effect the perception of your character. With the technicality question being taken care of following the Burbank decision, there is little chance that this case ever even gets heard. The labor friendly judge the first time around admitted she didn't think she had the power to intervene, now there's even less of a chance.




Which is my point exactly. Jonathan Vilma has bank statements that go back 5 years. Goodell will need to prove that 10,000 was paid to a player or even drawn out of his bank. Which he will not be able to prove.

Goodell will try to prove that there was intent to injure players. But again it is evidence based on hearsay. Nothing concrete has been put for yet by Goodell. Other than a sign affadavit from Greg Williams.

The Commisioner even agreed to lessen the suspension of two other players involved in the scandal. He is feeling the pressure and that last thing he wants is for a court to hear to agree to listen to the matter.
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cp0k2


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kilahchris wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
kilahchris wrote:
I honestly think that Roger Godell has bit off more than he can chew here. This legal fight will head back to court where Roger will have to prove his case.

The Defamation lawsuit is a killer because it will force Goodell to defend his actions and reveal evidence that support the action. Evidence other than hearsay.

Roger should swallow his pride and cut some type of deal with Vilma. I can't see the NFL winning this battle.
You clearly don't understand the legal system, Goddell is a defendant, the burden of proof is on Vilma. Vilma has to prove that Goddell doesn't a) have the power to suspend players in the NFL for a pay to injury system (which he does) and that Goddell doesn't really believe that Vilma was part of the pay for injury system (which he does).

Defamation is probably the toughest suit in any situation to win. You have to show that the defendant either w/ malice, or reckless negligence lied in order to intentionaly negatively effect the perception of your character. With the technicality question being taken care of following the Burbank decision, there is little chance that this case ever even gets heard. The labor friendly judge the first time around admitted she didn't think she had the power to intervene, now there's even less of a chance.

Which is my point exactly. Jonathan Vilma has bank statements that go back 5 years. Goodell will need to prove that 10,000 was paid to a player or even drawn out of his bank. Which he will not be able to prove.

Goodell will try to prove that there was intent to injure players. But again it is evidence based on hearsay. Nothing concrete has been put for yet by Goodell. Other than a sign affadavit from Greg Williams.

The Commisioner even agreed to lessen the suspension of two other players involved in the scandal. He is feeling the pressure and that last thing he wants is for a court to hear to agree to listen to the matter.

Your point is exactly what? You still haven't shown that you understand the situation. Jon Vilma could have bank statements going back to his birth, it doesn't matter. Unless he can account for every penny he has ever earned and how he spent/invested/borrowed/saved all of it, it doesn't prove he (a wealthy individual) didn't have $10,000 to pay towards a bounty. Roger Goodell doesn't have to prove anything, it's a defamation suit against him brought on by Vilma. Vilma has to prove Goodell is guilty of lying with malice or reckless negligence (as Superman(DH23) said). That is, if this case even sees the inside of a courtroom; it's likely to be dismissed before then.
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