Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Saints players win appeal
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 13, 14, 15, 16, 17  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> NFL News
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
detfan782004


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 48901
Location: Montana
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

doomer wrote:
vike daddy wrote:
^yup.


While it was a victory [for the players] on the surface, it was fairly hollow and potentially temporary.

Apart from the fact that the timing of the decision prevented the players from practicing in preparation for Week One, the ruling gives the NFL another chance to impose the suspensions in a way that draws clear lines between conduct detrimental to the game (over which Commissioner Roger Goodell has jurisdiction) and salary-cap violations arising from a pay-for-performance/bounty system (over which Goodell has no jurisdiction).

Itís likely that the league will simply re-issue the same suspensions. Indeed, the memo sent by NFL general counsel Jeff Pash to the various teams on Friday clearly indicates that the league continues to believe that wrongdoing occurred ó and that there should be significant punishment for it.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/07/leagues-internal-memo-suggests-that-suspensions-will-be-re-issued/related/


Goodell could reinstate the suspensions but the CBA process would kick in and the players would appeal. He would also have to provide the evidence he relied on to prove intent to injure. No notes scribbled on a napkin or "he said, she said" this time. Not to mention a Judge will be scrutinizing his every move.

If the clear cut evidence is truly there, as Goodell has repeatedly claimed, then I have no doubt that there be another punishment coming. That's a pretty big "if" at this point though.


Not really. Its more like when not if.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
EliteTexan80


Most Valuable Poster
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 38123
Location: Three time Mr. fanTASTic!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlaqOptic wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
Steelerspower wrote:
The NFL was the most popular league before the arrival of Goodell

...and it STILL IS! If anything, there are more markets watching it now than ever before!

Before Roger Goodell came in, the NFL had to compete with the NBA as the most popular sporting league in the US, and since then the NFL has ran CIRCLES around the NBA in terms of viewership, revenue, TV contracts - you name it, the NFL outdoes many of its competetors COMBINED.

Quote:
Goodell has done nothing special in the NFL except to having too much power

Sigh. We all know your agenda, Goodell could send you flowers on your birthday and you would call him the most evil man on the planet. There is literally NOTHING he can do to win you over, and you now have to resort to making false claims about how the league has lost some footing against its counterparts. If anything, the NFL has completely ran away from them in terms of profitability and popularity - I simply don't know HOW you can come to any conclusion outside of that.

Really, I don't.


Please enlighten us what Goodell has specifically done that made the difference? Because I'm pretty sure that Goodell had nothing to do with the NBA's lack of quality control over the past decade. Or with the MLB holding out in 1994 which is what killed the MLB's reign as king. Or the NHL lockout in 2004 and 2012... Goodell clearly did those...

Football was destined for this movement before Goodell came along and he really hasn't done anything to truly be the difference between he and Tagliabue.


Helped negotiate the largest TV deal in history.

Helped negotiate the new CBA and kept the league strike from shortening the season like the clowns in the NBA.

Changed the Pro-Bowl and earned the highest ratings ever.

Made drastic rule changes and penalties to ensure player safety at a time where that is a big headline and the effects are being seen from past players not being protected from vicious head shots.

He isn't just trying to keep it the #1 league, he's trying to enhance it as much as possible. He's also trying to ensure the FUTURE success of the league by making the players' safety a top concern.


This is me waiting.


I'm sorry bro... I have a wife, work full time and attend grad school. I can't monitor this topic 24/7.


FYI - I'm too drunk to respond properly now, but I have every intent on grinding my heel into your argument when I am sipping on Pho.

Sit tight; it will be painful, but you shall learn something. That's the least I can do.
_________________

iPwn, Kempes and Flaccomania: The official sig makers for THE ET80!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
The LBC


Global Moderator
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 22889
Location: Where We Can't Have Nice Things
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EliteTexan80 wrote:
FYI - I'm too drunk to respond properly now, but I have every intent on grinding my heel into your argument when I am sipping on Pho.

Sit tight; it will be painful, but you shall learn something. That's the least I can do.

Sig'ed! Just sayin'... Laughing
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RainbowCarebear


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 34463
Location: "Are you hungry, child?" Yes, she thought, but not for food.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't believe they got out of this, atleast for now Shocked
_________________

"Do you imagine Whoresbane loves you any better? If you did not hold the ..., he would pull out your entrails and make you eat them"
"In return, we swore that we should always be their men"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nugpimpen


Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 19737
Location: 10 Miles South of Cleveland
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlaqOptic wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
Steelerspower wrote:
The NFL was the most popular league before the arrival of Goodell

...and it STILL IS! If anything, there are more markets watching it now than ever before!

Before Roger Goodell came in, the NFL had to compete with the NBA as the most popular sporting league in the US, and since then the NFL has ran CIRCLES around the NBA in terms of viewership, revenue, TV contracts - you name it, the NFL outdoes many of its competetors COMBINED.

Quote:
Goodell has done nothing special in the NFL except to having too much power

Sigh. We all know your agenda, Goodell could send you flowers on your birthday and you would call him the most evil man on the planet. There is literally NOTHING he can do to win you over, and you now have to resort to making false claims about how the league has lost some footing against its counterparts. If anything, the NFL has completely ran away from them in terms of profitability and popularity - I simply don't know HOW you can come to any conclusion outside of that.

Really, I don't.


Please enlighten us what Goodell has specifically done that made the difference? Because I'm pretty sure that Goodell had nothing to do with the NBA's lack of quality control over the past decade. Or with the MLB holding out in 1994 which is what killed the MLB's reign as king. Or the NHL lockout in 2004 and 2012... Goodell clearly did those...

Football was destined for this movement before Goodell came along and he really hasn't done anything to truly be the difference between he and Tagliabue.


Helped negotiate the largest TV deal in history.

Helped negotiate the new CBA and kept the league strike from shortening the season like the clowns in the NBA.

Changed the Pro-Bowl and earned the highest ratings ever.

Made drastic rule changes and penalties to ensure player safety at a time where that is a big headline and the effects are being seen from past players not being protected from vicious head shots.

He isn't just trying to keep it the #1 league, he's trying to enhance it as much as possible. He's also trying to ensure the FUTURE success of the league by making the players' safety a top concern.


This is me waiting.


I'm sorry bro... I have a wife, work full time and attend grad school. I can't monitor this topic 24/7.


HAHA i was just messin with u man. We all got [inappropriate/removed] to do. Well mostly... I'm looken at you ET. Wink
_________________


IDOG_det on the incredible sig!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sammymvpknight


Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 3399
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaguarfan wrote:
sammymvpknight wrote:
Jaguarfan wrote:
At least a few Saints fans actually recognize this shouldn't be happening.
Suspensions were totally justified. If you think otherwise, you're an idiot.


I completely agree. Performance incentives amongst friends shouldn't happen throughout the league... I think the word idiot is a bit strong... they just have a different opinion.

NO! IF THEY THINK DIFFERENTLY THEY ARE WRONG! Laughing


When you put it that way...I guess you are right. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sammymvpknight


Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 3399
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
SaintsFantic101 wrote:
I believe we had a pay for performance system like many other teams but I will never believe we went out their with the intent to injury another player. And until they show some concrete and not bs "evidence" I will stay the same. And to so called Saints fan who believe they went out their to injure other players, shame on you. You're not a real fan. A real fan recognizes when their team is being railroaded and messed over like this.

Come on man...


I agree with SaintsFanatic. I don't think that Goodell has a shread of evidence that there was a "bounty" program. That was why the suspensions were so harsh. If this was simply a salary cap violation there is no way that the penalties would have been this harsh. Obviously the Saints deserve to get punished for salary cap violations...and in hindsight they should be punished for stupidity...but I think that Goodell is going to have a hard time proving that there was intent to injure. If he had this information, Big Willy style wouldn't be playing this week.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nugpimpen


Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 19737
Location: 10 Miles South of Cleveland
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sammymvpknight wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
SaintsFantic101 wrote:
I believe we had a pay for performance system like many other teams but I will never believe we went out their with the intent to injury another player. And until they show some concrete and not bs "evidence" I will stay the same. And to so called Saints fan who believe they went out their to injure other players, shame on you. You're not a real fan. A real fan recognizes when their team is being railroaded and messed over like this.

Come on man...


I agree with SaintsFanatic. I don't think that Goodell has a shread of evidence that there was a "bounty" program. That was why the suspensions were so harsh. If this was simply a salary cap violation there is no way that the penalties would have been this harsh. Obviously the Saints deserve to get punished for salary cap violations...and in hindsight they should be punished for stupidity...but I think that Goodell is going to have a hard time proving that there was intent to injure. If he had this information, Big Willy style wouldn't be playing this week.


I feel so bad for Harper
_________________


IDOG_det on the incredible sig!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
green24


Joined: 10 Apr 2010
Posts: 46890
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
FYI - I'm too drunk to respond properly now, but I have every intent on grinding my heel into your argument when I am sipping on Pho.

Sit tight; it will be painful, but you shall learn something. That's the least I can do.

Sig'ed! Just sayin'... Laughing

No you didn't... Laughing
_________________

aceinthehouse wrote:
I'm so confident in the Skins this season (offensively), I think they challenge the Patriots scoring record.
Call it a hunch. Idea
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bucsfan333


Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 26689
Location: the mitten
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What kind of unholy uprising will there be if one of those guys hurts a player this year? What if it's during a game they were supposed to be suspended for?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
CriminalMind


Joined: 25 Aug 2011
Posts: 4755
Location: Toronto, CA
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PatriotsWin! wrote:
What I've gotten so far:

The players only "won" on a technicality b/c the language Goodell used didn't make it clear the offense fell under "conduct detrimental to the team/NFL". So Goodell will simply re-issue the suspensions, but this time use more precise language. So nothing has changed really. Saints players will still have to serve out their punishments.



Yup, so when the NFL re-issues the documentation, we could very well see the suspensions later in the season or around playoff time.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nolafan33


Joined: 23 Feb 2009
Posts: 1178
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
nolafan33 wrote:
Honestly, I can't help but laugh at those of you who actually believe the Saints defenders took the field with the sole purpose to target and intentionally injure players.


So lets just forget all the proof that was provided?

Give me a break. Even coaches basically admitted to it.


I'd be interested in hearing how it was proven?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spilltray


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 10322
Location: Green Bay, WI
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sammymvpknight wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
SaintsFantic101 wrote:
I believe we had a pay for performance system like many other teams but I will never believe we went out their with the intent to injury another player. And until they show some concrete and not bs "evidence" I will stay the same. And to so called Saints fan who believe they went out their to injure other players, shame on you. You're not a real fan. A real fan recognizes when their team is being railroaded and messed over like this.

Come on man...


I agree with SaintsFanatic. I don't think that Goodell has a shread of evidence that there was a "bounty" program. That was why the suspensions were so harsh. If this was simply a salary cap violation there is no way that the penalties would have been this harsh. Obviously the Saints deserve to get punished for salary cap violations...and in hindsight they should be punished for stupidity...but I think that Goodell is going to have a hard time proving that there was intent to injure. If he had this information, Big Willy style wouldn't be playing this week.


Goodell has no issue at all proving intent. Legally, accepting payment for the results is proof of intent.

Say for instance my buddy and I hate cats. Cats get hit on the road from time to time. We say to each other "I'll give you $20 for every cat you run down. I drive normally hoping to get cats. He goes up on peoples lawns, swerves, and basically drives like a maniac trying to rack up a tally. In the end it doesn't matter if I was only taking money for cats I "accidentally" ran over. The fact that I was accepting money for it makes it implied intent. In the eyes of the law, the intent is the same.

They got him on the technicality that he combined it all into one offense when there is a salary portion that should have been handled separately in addition to the conduct detrimental to the league portion. If I'm not mistaken this might actually be WORSE for the players because in addition to a suspension that Goodell is the only arbitrator to, I believe salary violations can be fined (in addition to missing game checks).
_________________
Wilfred wrote:
Memory is like the Packers when they are behind by two touchdowns in the 4th quarter... It comes back.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
J Pep 4 Step


Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 29457
Location: Greenvillain, NC
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
doomer wrote:
vike daddy wrote:
^yup.


While it was a victory [for the players] on the surface, it was fairly hollow and potentially temporary.

Apart from the fact that the timing of the decision prevented the players from practicing in preparation for Week One, the ruling gives the NFL another chance to impose the suspensions in a way that draws clear lines between conduct detrimental to the game (over which Commissioner Roger Goodell has jurisdiction) and salary-cap violations arising from a pay-for-performance/bounty system (over which Goodell has no jurisdiction).

Itís likely that the league will simply re-issue the same suspensions. Indeed, the memo sent by NFL general counsel Jeff Pash to the various teams on Friday clearly indicates that the league continues to believe that wrongdoing occurred ó and that there should be significant punishment for it.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/07/leagues-internal-memo-suggests-that-suspensions-will-be-re-issued/related/


Goodell could reinstate the suspensions but the CBA process would kick in and the players would appeal. He would also have to provide the evidence he relied on to prove intent to injure. No notes scribbled on a napkin or "he said, she said" this time. Not to mention a Judge will be scrutinizing his every move.

If the clear cut evidence is truly there, as Goodell has repeatedly claimed, then I have no doubt that there be another punishment coming. That's a pretty big "if" at this point though.

Again... really? We're back on this intent? This isn't criminal court. Intent doesn't have to be proven. All that needs to be proven is that conduct detrimental to the league as a whole occurred and punitive actions can be taken.

And please, because if you're still trying to pretend to the contrary you're being willfully ignorant, stop with the presumption that the evidence that was released to the media by the Players' Association is the whole extent of all the evidence there is. This "well, I haven't seen it, so it must not exist" stance is naive and dumb.


Ignored again... Confused

I think those two points are, without a doubt, the two most widely ignored points in the conversation. And theyve been ignored since day 1.

1. It doesnt matter if its a "Pay To Injure" program or a "Pay For Injure" program. Both are equally reprehensible and both deserve equal punishment.

2. The evidence we have seen isnt necessarily all the evidence. The evidence we have seen is exactly what the NFLPA wanted the fans to see. Thats it. If you dont believe every political ad you see because of the agenda thats fueling it, why would you believe what the NFLPA released is "the case, the whole case and nothing but the case?"
_________________

CK on the sig
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nolafan33


Joined: 23 Feb 2009
Posts: 1178
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The NFL has stated that the evidence released is all the evidence they have against the PLAYERS.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> NFL News All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 13, 14, 15, 16, 17  Next
Page 14 of 17

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group