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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DreamKid wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
So with the loss of Pollard and potential loss of Reed, I've been paying more attention to scouting the safety position in the draft. I've watched the most tape on Elam and Thomas and then Cyprien. But atm, I'm wondering why people have been falling on hard times with McDonald, I really like what I see there.

FTMP this is how my list looks:
1. Kenny Vacarro
2. TJ McDonald
3. Matt Elam
4. Johnathan Cyprien
5. Shamarko Thomas


You've in the past said you feel Elam is an instant pro bowler at the next level, so are you saying Kenny and TJ are as well or is this a potential kind of list?

Also I admitedly have not fully scouted the safety position, but from what I have seen DJ Swearinger looks to offer more than some of those guys namely Shamarko.

Your constant selling of Elam has made me view his tape frequently, and I like his energy flying around out there. The pairing of him and DJ would give us next level swag in the defensive backfield. What would be the best though, is if we could get at least one year of tutelage out of Reed if he miraculously came back. No telling what kind of effect it could have on a young player. I would venture to guess it served Ellerbe well to have a mentor like Ray. Not even from an off the field perspective, but on the field. Ed's game is like no other, and any tips he could offer or little tricks early in a players development could have insane results. Also when you play behind a player like that you always strive to show them you belong, and at the same time like to surpass them.

This isn't a potential kind of list. I think based on potential, Shamarko Thomas is either at the top or 2nd to Elam in that category. Both are compact safeties that have the ability to cover slot WRs... for my money, Thomas looks like the best I've seen on tape in that capacity. He has corner feet and looked comfortable in coverage. My last list was still preliminary, I didn't necessarily think we'd be targeting a safety in the draft so I didn't pay as much attention to the position during the season. I only really paid attention to Elam and that's because I noticed him last year while watching him play.. and he was just such an impact player.

In terms of the instant probowl comment during the season... I think I'll have to revise that. I've seen more tape on him and Elam isn't always playing up to his ability. Most of the time he's an impact player against the run, but enough times I'll just see him standing around waiting to see if his teammates can take a guy down without getting his hat involved in the play... this could be because he plays punt coverage and is trying to conserve energy... either way, it comes across as lazy.

Also the Auburn tape really opened my eyes to the mismatch he has coming to him at the next level. Auburn matched their TE on him, Philip Lutzenkirchen (6'5" 255 lbs) and even with good coverage there was simply nothing Elam could do to stop the passes coming his way as he was simply too small. Like c0 mentioned, if you draft Elam, you're going to need to use a LBer or perhaps a big corner to cover a TE... and IMO that level of mismatch lowers my perceived value for Elam. Sure he can cover slot receivers and is probably the 2nd best at doing it to Thomas, but he's not dependable enough to replace a nickel corner, so he's going to see mismatches with TEs on occasion and if teams are smart they will make a great effort to expose him. I've compared him to Polamalu, but I think Polamalu has better instincts and was a little more explosive. Elam probably profiles more closely to a modern day Polamalu (when healthy)- one that has lost a step with age, but is still probowl worthy.

Elam is very talented and should still be a probowl guy once he gains experience at the next level, especially with his playing style that is sure to earn him spots on sportscenter, but I'm no longer quite as high on him as I was.

My last list also had a decent amount of consensus placed into it. For instance Vacarro being ranked #1. I hadn't truly seen much tape of his and just went with the lazy thing to do and rank him #1 until further viewing, so that's why he was ranked above Elam... not because I judge him to be more talented. Since yesterday, I've watched every single tape available for:
1. Matt Elam (well before yesterday)
2. Kenny Vacarro
3. Shamarko Thomas
4. Johnathan Cyprien

And with McDonald I've watched all three of his 2012 tapes, but he has like 4 more tapes ranging from 2010-2011 that I may or may not decide to watch.

Eric Reid, I've probably 1/4 of his 7 game splice. But I don't think I need to see more on him. He's similarly sized and athletic to McDonald- only he consistently takes some of the worst angles imaginable on every down. And his instincts are only solid. Not a fan of his- at all. Maybe one day when I have enough time and am bored enough, I'll give him another chance... but yeah.

I've also watched two Swearinger tapes, but I was starting to get burned out today, so I gave it a rest.

But my update safety rankings after today's viewings looks like this:
DB424 Safety Ranking wrote:
1. TJ McDonald
2. Matt Elam
3a. Kenny Vacarro
3a. Johnathan Cyprien
3b. Shamark Thomas

I haven't seen Phillip Thomas, JJ Wilcox, nor Shawn Williams so I won't be ranking them...

6. Tony Jefferson
7. Bacarri Rambo (character)
8. Eric Reid
9. DJ Swearinger


The above should be about the same for awhile unlike yesterday's update.. which was sort of preliminary.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go_Ravens2 wrote:
gooselovechild wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
So with the loss of Pollard and potential loss of Reed, I've been paying more attention to scouting the safety position in the draft. I've watched the most tape on Elam and Thomas and then Cyprien. But atm, I'm wondering why people have been falling on hard times with McDonald, I really like what I see there.

FTMP this is how my list looks:
1. Kenny Vacarro
2. TJ McDonald
3. Matt Elam
4. Johnathan Cyprien
5. Shamarko Thomas


The hype train got out of control with McDonald, and no matter what he did and how well he played, he couldn't live up to the expectations of being a potential top 5 after last year's draft. Then the entire USC team underachieved badly this year when they were thought to be a shoe-in for the national title as late as mid-October, and that dragged down the perception of him even more.

But I like him a lot too, probably more than any other potential pick at S in the whole draft this year. He has some of the same skills that Ed Reed had when he was younger, particularly a knack for blocking punts, and his range for a guy his size is pretty impressive.

He's probably one of those players that NFL personnel guys value more highly than armchair QBs, and I think he gets drafted at least one round earlier than most are projecting...probably somewhere in the mid 2nd round area.


Its funny you compare McDonald to Ed Reed because NFL.com compares him to Bernard Pollard.

I don't think he compares to either. I think McDonald compares quite favorably to Peak level Dawan Landry back in say... 06-08 when he could cover the the TE pretty effectively, was a fierce tackler that could lay the wood (this was before his paralysis hit), could play deep while Reed roamed the middle, and could be put in the box and bring a physical presence that wasn't an extra LBer, but close enough to it.

McDonald isn't as violent a hitter as Pollard, for a more recent example he's probably more comparable to James Ihedigbo in terms of physicality in tackling. But McDonald is MUCH MUCH better in coverage than Pollard. He has excellent size (6'2" 219 lbs), length (33 1/8" arms), athleticism (4.59 forty + 6.89 three cone) and vertical ability (40") to challenge most any TE in coverage. I've seen him lineup multiple times in man coverage against TEs and he gets a nice bump, turns his hips smoothly, and does a good job of getting his head around to track the ball in the air. The only time I noticed him getting beat on tape was against Arizona sophomore receiver Austin Hill (who seemed to be getting behind every body USC threw at him- he's a guy I'll be keeping an eye on in the future) and even then he was in decent position, but the stadium had a lot of glare and it looked like he couldn't track the ball fast enough to try and make a play on it.

So with McDonald, I think he's probably a more athletic peak level Dawan Landry. He's already a very polished player too and has NFL bloodlines- which is a strong plus. I don't see any major flaws in his game. The only 'flaw' is that his ability to make an aggressive plant, redirect, and get back to full speed isn't up to par with the smaller safeties in this class. He's agile, but if there is a misdirection play and he reads it wrong (another thing, he rarely ever overpursues so this is rarely a problem) then it'll take him longer to recover.

Lastly, McDonald is excellent in his ability to judge the speed of opposing players and take the best angle to the ball. And related to that, he understands his job as a safety is to be the last line of defense and because of it won't try and run an angle that speed can burn. He's disciplined and smart.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
I want Cyprien. It's starting to become an irrational obsession at this point. I just love the way he flies around the field while having a lot of versatility in how he's used.

If anybody's interested Scott Wright recently reworked his rankings. THis is what his top 15 looks like at safety:

Quote:
1. Kenny Vaccaro
2. Eric Reid
3. Matt Elam
4. Johnathan Cyprien
5. T.J. McDonald
6. Phillip Thomas
7. Shamarko Thomas
8. Bacarri Rambo
9. Tony Jefferson
10. J.J. Wilcox
11. Shawn Williams
12. D.J. Swearinger
13. Duke Williams
14. Robert Lester
15. Zeke Motta


It's interesting that he's so low on Swearinger. I asked him about it on Twitter but he hasn't responded. Reid seems a bit high in my opinion too but he's been a fan of his all along.

I can understand it. Swearinger isn't the most athletic safety out there. His instincts are good, but I didn't see them to be at the same level of Tony Jefferson, Rambo, Cyprien, McDonald, Elam and Vacarro... who all have great to elite instincts. So when his instincts pale to a similar athlete like Jefferson you really have to lock in... and the thing I hate about Swearinger is that when he sees a runner coming towards him as opposed to running up and attacking him, I've seen too many times in the games I've watched (though I admit I need to watch more of him) where he just sits there, let's the runner get an extra 2-5 yards before getting to him and then tackling him. He didn't look to force the issue. I've seen him late in attacking screen passes. I'm still at an incomplete with him so maybe I just need to watch him more- he wasn't horrid or anything, but I can definitely see him having him low. I have him at 9 without including 3 safeties in the equation that I haven't watched yet.

And I would probably put Reid above Swearinger as well just because he's very athletic, pretty good talent, and has very high level potential (I just don't trust him to reach it).
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been one of the biggest proponents of getting a physical freak receiver like Da'Rick Rogers in the draft, but what would you guys think about TJ Moe in one of the later rounds? The guy seems like a Welker/Amendola clone. He was pretty slow in the 40, but was off the charts in pretty much every other area (shuttle, 3-cone, bench). He seems to have the explosion ideal for the slot. Not saying he's my ideal player or anything, but he'd be a nice consolation prize to work the middle of the field with Smith, Jones, Pitta and possibly Dickson occupying the intermediate to deep portions of the field
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I'm of the opinion that we currently have slot options that we haven't fully analyzed their potential in game situations- playing with Flacco. I'd like to see what we couldn't get out of those resources before going back to the draft for a low-medium level receiver addition. If we're going to go receiver, then I'd want it to be as close to a sure thing as possible in terms of talent. We should be targeting a receiver that can present a level of impact to our passing game as Torrey does... only in other dimensions... and not necessarily as a dominating deep threat like Torrey.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
Personally I'm of the opinion that we currently have slot options that we haven't fully analyzed their potential in game situations- playing with Flacco. I'd like to see what we couldn't get out of those resources before going back to the draft for a low-medium level receiver addition. If we're going to go receiver, then I'd want it to be as close to a sure thing as possible in terms of talent. We should be targeting a receiver that can present a level of impact to our passing game as Torrey does... only in other dimensions... and not necessarily as a dominating deep threat like Torrey.


I agree that the Ravens don't need a slot receiver. That's more because I don't want Jones starting on the outside more than anything else though. If Baltimore was going to draft a receiver in the first couple of rounds (as we all know I'd rather they focus on the defense but WR is still a need) my preferred targets are Hopkins, Allen, and Williams. I'm iffy on Hunter and there's probably no chance Patterson lasts until their pick in the first round. Woods doesn't do much for me and Rogers probably won't go that high. Patton is an interesting guy to watch out for.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:

Well ideally I'd prefer Cyprien but if the Ravens spend a good chunk of money on a safety in free agency I doubt they take one in the first couple rounds of the draft so I'm ruling guys like him and Elam out. I'm not particularly high on McDonald though. He's above Reid for me but I'm not sure McDonald is anything more than just a guy in the NFL. There isn't a whole lot of impact plays I see from him.

I wanted to address this without diverting from the other thread, so I'm posting it here.

First, I don't think spending any kind of money on a free agent WR, be it Reed or Huff would have any impact on going after a safety in rounds 1-3 outside of perhaps not selecting a guy whose best fit is at FS (like perhaps David Amerson transitioning to FS). But Cyprien, Elam, and TJ all best fit at SS at the next level... or within a system that has them as right-left safety without the traditional responsibilities.

Secondly, what measure of impact are you referring to with McDonald? To compare him to the notable safeties of this class here are their stats:

Quote:
TJ McDonald: 3 year starter (37 games)
268 TTs: 7.24 T/G, 147 solo, 121 ast, 12 TFL, 2 scks- 18 yds; 17 PD, 8 INTs- 57 yds; 0 FF; 2 p/k b

Jonathan Cyprien: 4 year starter (50 games)
365 TTs: 7.3 T/G, 213 solo, 152 ast, 13.5 TFL, 1 scks- 2 yds; 0 QBHs; 28 PD, 6 INTs- 44 yds; 6 FF; 0 p/k b

Kenny Vacarro: 3 year starter (38 games)
213 TTs: 5.61 T/G, 145 solo, 68 ast, 14 TFL, 2 scks- 16 yds; 8 QBHs; 24 PD, 5 INTs- 19 yds; 3 FF; 0 p/k b

Matt Elam: 2 year starter (26 games)
156 TTs: 6.00 T/G, 108 solo, 46 ast, 22 TFL, 4 scks- 19 yds; 1 QBHs; 19 PD, 6 INTs- 91 yds; 3 FF; 0 p/k b

So the way I see it, TJ McDonald stacks up quite well in comparison to his competition in production. In terms of impact plays, he also has the most interceptions on this list for the 2nd most return yards. So while his PDs aren't as high, he's proven to make more big plays against the pass. The only area where your argument could apply with regards to McDonald and impact plays is via FFs, which given how hard McDonald hits, I don't think that is an issue by any means and it's only a matter of time I have to think.

I've said this before, but if you're looking for splash plays, there is no better selection than Matt Elam. But Elam is also somewhat uncontrolled on the football field, he'll lead you to more penalties and indirect plays working against your team- similar to a Bernard Pollard or Bart Scott. IMO TJ McDonald however is the smartest, most pro-ready safety in this class. He rarely makes mistakes and rarely gives up big plays... and that's an important quality to have as a safety. That and when you see that he's one of the best athletes at safety in this class and you've got a guy with a high floor that still has a little potential for growth left in his game. But all in all, McDonald is like what Mike Mayock said about Mark Barron last year, "His floor is his ceiling, but that's not a bad thing. His ceiling and floor is as a probowl player." I think the same pretty much goes for McDonald. Floor/Ceiling = probowl player.

Cyprien is similar to McDonald in that he rarely makes huge mistakes and while he has a few more impact plays across the board, he also played against inferior competition on a weekly basis. Also Cyprien, on tape, looks like he is the worst athlete of the safeties in my top 5. His proday forty made me go back and sure enough, you could see it on tape. He's probably a 4.7 forty type speed guy and that drops him in my ranking. With his size, I want more speed. But at his current size/athletic package, he's too slow to cover slot WRs and not big enough to match up with a TE on a consistent basis. And his splash plays don't hold up as well considering his level of competition. That said, I like Cyprien and like McDonald I think the quote given regarding Barron applies to Cyprien as well, but the difference is I think with bring less athleticism to the table his ceiling is more limited than McDonald. As opposed to 5-6 probowls, Cyprien might be one of those guys that's close every year, but only ends up in 2-3 throughout his career. A Derrick Mason level of success.
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mcdni


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also like what McDonald could do against TEs. He has the size and speed combo to match up against some of the freaks playing TE at the moment. He might still get boxed out against some of the stronger 6-6 or 6-7 guys but then show me a safety who doesn't. At USC he didn't have to cover TEs too often as they had a converted SS playing LB that covered a lot in Bailey.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcdni wrote:
I also like what McDonald could do against TEs. He has the size and speed combo to match up against some of the freaks playing TE at the moment. He might still get boxed out against some of the stronger 6-6 or 6-7 guys but then show me a safety who doesn't. At USC he didn't have to cover TEs too often as they had a converted SS playing LB that covered a lot in Bailey.

Yup.. and even if he's boxed out that's where his nice hands, arm length, and 40" vertical leap come into play. Some TEs might still be able to make a play, but he could be one of the more difficult TE covers in the league with the right tutelage and experience.

The way I see it, and part of the reason why McDonald is now my #1 safety is this... Matt Elam is a guy who can be a playmaker and produce a lot of splash plays, no doubt. Those guys don't grow on trees, I understand that. But McDonald can also make his fair share of plays, he's a playmaker as well. But I find it much easier to find a smaller athletic FS to pair with McDonald, a guy that can cover slot WRs, stick with RBs, or play a deep zone than to find a bigger athletic safety that can cover TEs. Because usually big, athletic, and coverage don't always go together. Elam's profile might be rare, but I'd be willing to think that a player of McDonald's skillset is even rarer. And what is talent other than someone with a rare skillset that presents to him greater advantage than others in performing an activity.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
I wanted to address this without diverting from the other thread, so I'm posting it here.

First, I don't think spending any kind of money on a free agent WR, be it Reed or Huff would have any impact on going after a safety in rounds 1-3 outside of perhaps not selecting a guy whose best fit is at FS (like perhaps David Amerson transitioning to FS). But Cyprien, Elam, and TJ all best fit at SS at the next level... or within a system that has them as right-left safety without the traditional responsibilities.


Maybe. I just feel like if the Ravens signs a safety in free agency (especially a FS) they would focus more on ILB/pass-rusher/LT/WR in the first couple of rounds.

Quote:
Secondly, what measure of impact are you referring to with McDonald? To compare him to the notable safeties of this class here are their stats:

Quote:
TJ McDonald: 3 year starter (37 games)
268 TTs: 7.24 T/G, 147 solo, 121 ast, 12 TFL, 2 scks- 18 yds; 17 PD, 8 INTs- 57 yds; 0 FF; 2 p/k b

Jonathan Cyprien: 4 year starter (50 games)
365 TTs: 7.3 T/G, 213 solo, 152 ast, 13.5 TFL, 1 scks- 2 yds; 0 QBHs; 28 PD, 6 INTs- 44 yds; 6 FF; 0 p/k b

Kenny Vacarro: 3 year starter (38 games)
213 TTs: 5.61 T/G, 145 solo, 68 ast, 14 TFL, 2 scks- 16 yds; 8 QBHs; 24 PD, 5 INTs- 19 yds; 3 FF; 0 p/k b

Matt Elam: 2 year starter (26 games)
156 TTs: 6.00 T/G, 108 solo, 46 ast, 22 TFL, 4 scks- 19 yds; 1 QBHs; 19 PD, 6 INTs- 91 yds; 3 FF; 0 p/k b


So the way I see it, TJ McDonald stacks up quite well in comparison to his competition in production. In terms of impact plays, he also has the most interceptions on this list for the 2nd most return yards. So while his PDs aren't as high, he's proven to make more big plays against the pass. The only area where your argument could apply with regards to McDonald and impact plays is via FFs, which given how hard McDonald hits, I don't think that is an issue by any means and it's only a matter of time I have to think.


It depends on where you go to get your stats. I primarily use the stats off the profile pages at Draft Countdown but even then when I cross-check them with a site like Sports-Reference a lot of the college football numbers are different for defensive guys. Using Draft Countdown these are the stats for those four players:

Code:
Vaccaro - 49 GP, 245 TKL, 20 PD, 5 INT

Elam - 39 GP, 176 TKL, 13 PD, 6 INT

Cyprien - 50 GP, 365 TKL, 22 PD, 7 INT

McDonald - 50 GP, 285 TKL, 9 PD, 8 INT


And now Sports-Reference:

Code:
Vaccaro - 44 GP, 231 TKL (14 TFL), 24 PD, 5 INT

Elam - 33 GP, 176 TKL (23.5 TFL), 19 PD, 6 INT

Cyprien - 50 GP, 365 TKL (13.5 TFL), 28 PD, 6 INT

McDonald - 42 GP, 275 TKL (12 TFL), 17 PD, 8 INT


I hate that defensive numbers for college football aren't "official." That's probably the main reason we see such big discrepancies between sites. The lack of impact I feel from McDonald isn't so much from his numbers as the feel I get whenever USC games came on. He never stood out to me. If a safety is going to be taken that high (first couple of rounds) I want to see a "presence" out there on the field.

Quote:
I've said this before, but if you're looking for splash plays, there is no better selection than Matt Elam. But Elam is also somewhat uncontrolled on the football field, he'll lead you to more penalties and indirect plays working against your team- similar to a Bernard Pollard or Bart Scott. IMO TJ McDonald however is the smartest, most pro-ready safety in this class. He rarely makes mistakes and rarely gives up big plays... and that's an important quality to have as a safety. That and when you see that he's one of the best athletes at safety in this class and you've got a guy with a high floor that still has a little potential for growth left in his game. But all in all, McDonald is like what Mike Mayock said about Mark Barron last year, "His floor is his ceiling, but that's not a bad thing. His ceiling and floor is as a probowl player." I think the same pretty much goes for McDonald. Floor/Ceiling = probowl player.


Elam is a guy I like too but his lack of height/length worries me. McDonald's floor as a Pro Bowl player seems like a reach to me. On one hand I don't think the Pro Bowl means much of anything anymore but on the other to make the Pro Bowl as a safety (or just about any other position for that matter) a guy is going to have to put up really impressive numbers. As a safety those are going to have to come in the form of interceptions. I don't think McDonald has that kind of ball skills.

Quote:
Cyprien is similar to McDonald in that he rarely makes huge mistakes and while he has a few more impact plays across the board, he also played against inferior competition on a weekly basis. Also Cyprien, on tape, looks like he is the worst athlete of the safeties in my top 5. His proday forty made me go back and sure enough, you could see it on tape. He's probably a 4.7 forty type speed guy and that drops him in my ranking. With his size, I want more speed. But at his current size/athletic package, he's too slow to cover slot WRs and not big enough to match up with a TE on a consistent basis. And his splash plays don't hold up as well considering his level of competition. That said, I like Cyprien and like McDonald I think the quote given regarding Barron applies to Cyprien as well, but the difference is I think with bring less athleticism to the table his ceiling is more limited than McDonald. As opposed to 5-6 probowls, Cyprien might be one of those guys that's close every year, but only ends up in 2-3 throughout his career. A Derrick Mason level of success.


I like what I see from Cyprien on the field in terms of athleticism. Maybe it's his instincts but he's always on the screen and seems to have the range to make plays all over the field. The level of competition can't be argued but I'm not sure how big of a deal that is these days. He flashes on tape and that's what I care about. I think McDonald is more like Vaccaro than Cyprien though. That might be a good thing for some but I'm not particularly high on Vaccaro either.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also got my stats from Sports Reference. I use a combination of them and CFBstats when researching numbers.

In terms of why the numbers are off, I subtracted numbers from years where the players weren't starting. I didn't think it would be fair to judge how these guys play the safety position based on years where they weren't contributors to the team. I probably should have specified this in my post to lessen any potential confusion, that's my fault.

In terms of showing up in games watched, I don't think that's a fair assessment here. Because if you're judging TJ using that method, but then using a different method for Cyprien than it creates an imbalance. It means McDonald has to live up to two layers of criticism while Cyprien only has to with one.
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alfalcone


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I had to guess, our two safety's next year, assuming Reed walks, will be two who excel in pass coverage. Rumor has it Harbaugh was not a fan of Pollard's penalties, and as such I'd venture to guess Swearinger, Mcdonald, and Thomas will not garner much of a look. Elam is good enough in other areas that he would still likely garner a look. My bet would be that we sign Michael Huff, and take either Cooper Taylor out of Richmond or Tyrann Mathieu in the 4th or 5th. Taylor is big, but runs well, and could excel in coverage against the elite tight ends with some coaching, and Mathieu though undersized is tenacious and a turnover machine.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alfalcone wrote:
If I had to guess, our two safety's next year, assuming Reed walks, will be two who excel in pass coverage. Rumor has it Harbaugh was not a fan of Pollard's penalties, and as such I'd venture to guess Swearinger, Mcdonald, and Thomas will not garner much of a look. Elam is good enough in other areas that he would still likely garner a look. My bet would be that we sign Michael Huff, and take either Cooper Taylor out of Richmond or Tyrann Mathieu in the 4th or 5th. Taylor is big, but runs well, and could excel in coverage against the elite tight ends with some coaching, and Mathieu though undersized is tenacious and a turnover machine.

You picked a known character concern with heavy and repeated issues as a guy we'd pick? Not saying it won't happen, but that's most certainly not the Ravens way to this point.
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alfalcone


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are everyone's thoughts on Menelik Watson? He might require some development, but he has the talent to sure up the offensive line, and the athleticism to develop into a stud left tackle. Imagine:

Watson, KO, Gino, Yanda, Oher
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Really just waiting for Ozzie to draft Karlos Williams
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gooselovechild


Joined: 29 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alfalcone wrote:
What are everyone's thoughts on Menelik Watson? He might require some development, but he has the talent to sure up the offensive line, and the athleticism to develop into a stud left tackle. Imagine:

Watson, KO, Gino, Yanda, Oher


He looks the part physically, but it scares me to use a high pick on a guy who has less football background than most high school players.

To me, there's no real way to gauge his football IQ, and the way he interviews and breaks down film is going to be the best way to know how fast he picks things up and what you're getting into. You also have to do a lot of projection, since he has very limited experience playing the game.

He will be the epitome of hit or miss, a guy who can make the GM who drafts him look like a genius or cost him his job.

Personally, I'd pass. He has too much catching up to do, and the NFL isn't the place to learn the fundamentals of the game.
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