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Looking Ahead: 2013 NFL Prospects Thread
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gooselovechild


Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 2598
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't entirely rule out Jarvis Jones freefalling out of round 1.

If knee injuries drop guys one or more rounds from where they would/should be drafted, spinal stenosis and the risk of paralysis could absolutely drop him down or completely off draft boards league wide.

That said, I don't expect him to be on the board when we pick, but the depth at the DE/OLB position this year makes it a definite possibility that teams could pass him over for a while--even into the 2nd round.
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drd23


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
KiddKillah wrote:
Listening to 105.7 the fan is tragic.

A guy just called and tried to say Jarvis Jones is going to fall to the early 2nd round. Shoot yourself kid Rolling Eyes

I don't get it. What was the bad part? I think it's highly conceivable that he does fall to that point.

Between the spinal stenosis issues and his reportedly lethargic efforts in practice... along with the fact that he didn't work out at the combine, plus the possibility that he could test slower than he plays... and it's very possible for him to fall into the 2nd round.

Rob Gronkowski wasn't supposed to go late 2nd round either and there were just rumors that he had spinal stenosis. Jarvis Jones issue is one he can play through sure, but he will still have to deal with it throughout the course of his NFL career. He's like another Ed Reed.

Personally, I see him falling to the 2nd as well. Though if he doesn't I'd think it'd be because we'd trade down with someone who is interested in trading up to secure him.

The spinal stenosis may have just been a rumour, but Rob Gronkowski definitely did miss the entire 2009 season (i.e. his last one) because of back surgery. That alone was enough to drop his stock.

I personally don't see Jones dropping all the way out of the 1st round. He played too well over the last couple of years, plays a premium position and there aren't any top class prospects to keep pushing him down the draft board
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a weird situation with Jones. A lot depends on when some of his health details are released too. Just look at the fall Kindle took a few years ago because the news about his knee (or knees?) came out just before the draft. I wouldn't be surprised if Jones was available when the Ravens pick but I'm not counting on it either.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drd23 wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
KiddKillah wrote:
Listening to 105.7 the fan is tragic.

A guy just called and tried to say Jarvis Jones is going to fall to the early 2nd round. Shoot yourself kid Rolling Eyes

I don't get it. What was the bad part? I think it's highly conceivable that he does fall to that point.

Between the spinal stenosis issues and his reportedly lethargic efforts in practice... along with the fact that he didn't work out at the combine, plus the possibility that he could test slower than he plays... and it's very possible for him to fall into the 2nd round.

Rob Gronkowski wasn't supposed to go late 2nd round either and there were just rumors that he had spinal stenosis. Jarvis Jones issue is one he can play through sure, but he will still have to deal with it throughout the course of his NFL career. He's like another Ed Reed.

Personally, I see him falling to the 2nd as well. Though if he doesn't I'd think it'd be because we'd trade down with someone who is interested in trading up to secure him.

The spinal stenosis may have just been a rumour, but Rob Gronkowski definitely did miss the entire 2009 season (i.e. his last one) because of back surgery. That alone was enough to drop his stock.

I personally don't see Jones dropping all the way out of the 1st round. He played too well over the last couple of years, plays a premium position and there aren't any top class prospects to keep pushing him down the draft board

I'm not guaranteeing that he falls out of the first round. I predicted months ago that I thought Jones was going to slide come draft day... and I'm sticking with that. I said then that I thought Jones would be a potential prospect for us to pick at #32... and I still think we might consider him.

That said, I think it's completely conceivable to believe that he could fall to the 2nd given his medical issues and motivational issues... from the reports, he sounds like a Lamar Woodley-esq guy in terms of practice... and is simply a gamer... that will eventually catch up to him. If it were just the Spinal issues, I'd want him, but motivation issues like that with it make me hesitate.

But back to my point, I was simply referring to the fact that Jones COULD fall. I think he will personally. But even if he doesn't the probability of it happening is high enough that I didn't understand why it was unreasonable to assume that he could fall to the 2nd.

Remember how Courtney Upshaw was supposed to go top 15 in last year's draft and fell to the 2nd? He didn't even have health issues- per se. His issue was that he measured in too big and was a little less agile in the drills than some had hoped... and he fell. Sergio Kindle had knee issues... and fell. To assume someone with Spinal Stenosis that hasn't even tested, someone that has some questionable practice habits, can't fall to the 2nd no matter how capable their play is... I found to be unreasonable... and still do. I could see if it was 3rd round slide, but sliding a full round is within the realm of possibility and until Jones goes out and destroys his proday (March 21st) with some awesome measurables, it will remain a strong possibility.

If he tests out with something like 4.73 speed and does simply above average in the agility drills, he isn't going to help his case. As teams might be more willing to gamble on a lesser player without the spinal stenosis in such a deep draft at the position.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish the Ravens needed a RB this year. At least then I could hype up a Michigan State prospect with conviction for Baltimore to take. Bell is one of my favorite Spartans over the last few years.

I'm not a big fan of Gholston. He kind of reminds me of Michael Johnson with less athleticism and pass-rushing potential. It would be interesting to see his fit as a 5-technique but I'm not sure how that would turn out.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
I wish the Ravens needed a RB this year. At least then I could hype up a Michigan State prospect with conviction for Baltimore to take. Bell is one of my favorite Spartans over the last few years.

I'm not a big fan of Gholston. He kind of reminds me of Michael Johnson with less athleticism and pass-rushing potential. It would be interesting to see his fit as a 5-technique but I'm not sure how that would turn out.

I thought he might fit as a 5-technique until I saw him at the combine. He didn't look like he got a good punch off the snap. He seemed very finesse. I think his best fit is probably as a 43LE or as a 34 DE in a system similar to the one we ran last year... or something similar to how the Texans utilize Watt. I don't like him as a 5-technique though.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
coordinator0 wrote:
I wish the Ravens needed a RB this year. At least then I could hype up a Michigan State prospect with conviction for Baltimore to take. Bell is one of my favorite Spartans over the last few years.

I'm not a big fan of Gholston. He kind of reminds me of Michael Johnson with less athleticism and pass-rushing potential. It would be interesting to see his fit as a 5-technique but I'm not sure how that would turn out.

I thought he might fit as a 5-technique until I saw him at the combine. He didn't look like he got a good punch off the snap. He seemed very finesse. I think his best fit is probably as a 43LE or as a 34 DE in a system similar to the one we ran last year... or something similar to how the Texans utilize Watt. I don't like him as a 5-technique though.


Yeah that's what I was thinking in regards to him as a 5-technique. He's not a 2-gap DL.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would anybody be terribly upset if Tank Carradine was the pick at 32? He's a pass-rusher I like a lot and it sounds like he's right on track recovering from his ACL injury. I don't think he makes it anywhere near pick 64.
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draftguru1234


Joined: 09 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
Would anybody be terribly upset if Tank Carradine was the pick at 32? He's a pass-rusher I like a lot and it sounds like he's right on track recovering from his ACL injury. I don't think he makes it anywhere near pick 64.

eh, I wouldn't mind, but I'd prefer moving down and getting a 4th if we could.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So with the loss of Pollard and potential loss of Reed, I've been paying more attention to scouting the safety position in the draft. I've watched the most tape on Elam and Thomas and then Cyprien. But atm, I'm wondering why people have been falling on hard times with McDonald, I really like what I see there.

FTMP this is how my list looks:
1. Kenny Vacarro
2. TJ McDonald
3. Matt Elam
4. Johnathan Cyprien
5. Shamarko Thomas
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DreamKid


Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 601
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
So with the loss of Pollard and potential loss of Reed, I've been paying more attention to scouting the safety position in the draft. I've watched the most tape on Elam and Thomas and then Cyprien. But atm, I'm wondering why people have been falling on hard times with McDonald, I really like what I see there.

FTMP this is how my list looks:
1. Kenny Vacarro
2. TJ McDonald
3. Matt Elam
4. Johnathan Cyprien
5. Shamarko Thomas


You've in the past said you feel Elam is an instant pro bowler at the next level, so are you saying Kenny and TJ are as well or is this a potential kind of list?

Also I admitedly have not fully scouted the safety position, but from what I have seen DJ Swearinger looks to offer more than some of those guys namely Shamarko.

Your constant selling of Elam has made me view his tape frequently, and I like his energy flying around out there. The pairing of him and DJ would give us next level swag in the defensive backfield. What would be the best though, is if we could get at least one year of tutelage out of Reed if he miraculously came back. No telling what kind of effect it could have on a young player. I would venture to guess it served Ellerbe well to have a mentor like Ray. Not even from an off the field perspective, but on the field. Ed's game is like no other, and any tips he could offer or little tricks early in a players development could have insane results. Also when you play behind a player like that you always strive to show them you belong, and at the same time like to surpass them.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want Cyprien. It's starting to become an irrational obsession at this point. I just love the way he flies around the field while having a lot of versatility in how he's used.

If anybody's interested Scott Wright recently reworked his rankings. THis is what his top 15 looks like at safety:

Quote:
1. Kenny Vaccaro
2. Eric Reid
3. Matt Elam
4. Johnathan Cyprien
5. T.J. McDonald
6. Phillip Thomas
7. Shamarko Thomas
8. Bacarri Rambo
9. Tony Jefferson
10. J.J. Wilcox
11. Shawn Williams
12. D.J. Swearinger
13. Duke Williams
14. Robert Lester
15. Zeke Motta


It's interesting that he's so low on Swearinger. I asked him about it on Twitter but he hasn't responded. Reid seems a bit high in my opinion too but he's been a fan of his all along.
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gooselovechild


Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 2598
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
So with the loss of Pollard and potential loss of Reed, I've been paying more attention to scouting the safety position in the draft. I've watched the most tape on Elam and Thomas and then Cyprien. But atm, I'm wondering why people have been falling on hard times with McDonald, I really like what I see there.

FTMP this is how my list looks:
1. Kenny Vacarro
2. TJ McDonald
3. Matt Elam
4. Johnathan Cyprien
5. Shamarko Thomas


The hype train got out of control with McDonald, and no matter what he did and how well he played, he couldn't live up to the expectations of being a potential top 5 after last year's draft. Then the entire USC team underachieved badly this year when they were thought to be a shoe-in for the national title as late as mid-October, and that dragged down the perception of him even more.

But I like him a lot too, probably more than any other potential pick at S in the whole draft this year. He has some of the same skills that Ed Reed had when he was younger, particularly a knack for blocking punts, and his range for a guy his size is pretty impressive.

He's probably one of those players that NFL personnel guys value more highly than armchair QBs, and I think he gets drafted at least one round earlier than most are projecting...probably somewhere in the mid 2nd round area.
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Go_Ravens2


Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 1995
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gooselovechild wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
So with the loss of Pollard and potential loss of Reed, I've been paying more attention to scouting the safety position in the draft. I've watched the most tape on Elam and Thomas and then Cyprien. But atm, I'm wondering why people have been falling on hard times with McDonald, I really like what I see there.

FTMP this is how my list looks:
1. Kenny Vacarro
2. TJ McDonald
3. Matt Elam
4. Johnathan Cyprien
5. Shamarko Thomas


The hype train got out of control with McDonald, and no matter what he did and how well he played, he couldn't live up to the expectations of being a potential top 5 after last year's draft. Then the entire USC team underachieved badly this year when they were thought to be a shoe-in for the national title as late as mid-October, and that dragged down the perception of him even more.

But I like him a lot too, probably more than any other potential pick at S in the whole draft this year. He has some of the same skills that Ed Reed had when he was younger, particularly a knack for blocking punts, and his range for a guy his size is pretty impressive.

He's probably one of those players that NFL personnel guys value more highly than armchair QBs, and I think he gets drafted at least one round earlier than most are projecting...probably somewhere in the mid 2nd round area.


Its funny you compare McDonald to Ed Reed because NFL.com compares him to Bernard Pollard.
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gooselovechild


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go_Ravens2 wrote:
gooselovechild wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
So with the loss of Pollard and potential loss of Reed, I've been paying more attention to scouting the safety position in the draft. I've watched the most tape on Elam and Thomas and then Cyprien. But atm, I'm wondering why people have been falling on hard times with McDonald, I really like what I see there.

FTMP this is how my list looks:
1. Kenny Vacarro
2. TJ McDonald
3. Matt Elam
4. Johnathan Cyprien
5. Shamarko Thomas


The hype train got out of control with McDonald, and no matter what he did and how well he played, he couldn't live up to the expectations of being a potential top 5 after last year's draft. Then the entire USC team underachieved badly this year when they were thought to be a shoe-in for the national title as late as mid-October, and that dragged down the perception of him even more.

But I like him a lot too, probably more than any other potential pick at S in the whole draft this year. He has some of the same skills that Ed Reed had when he was younger, particularly a knack for blocking punts, and his range for a guy his size is pretty impressive.

He's probably one of those players that NFL personnel guys value more highly than armchair QBs, and I think he gets drafted at least one round earlier than most are projecting...probably somewhere in the mid 2nd round area.


Its funny you compare McDonald to Ed Reed because NFL.com compares him to Bernard Pollard.


What I said was he has some of the same skills Ed had when he was younger, like blocking punts, which both are/were very good at. In no way does that mean he's a similar player in either physical ability or production, because overall, he isn't.

If I had to compare him to anybody in the league right now, it would be Kam Chancellor more than Pollard, but he really reminds me of a faster version of his father, who was a pretty good player for a long time.
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