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ArrowheadRage58


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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Location: Hate for the Donkeys is at a mile high
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DT58_lives_on wrote:
I'm really torn on what this season will hold. After week 1 I thought 10-6 would be the worst. After the last three games, I'm back to my original thought that 9-7 or 8-8 are more likely. I just say this because our team has been very un-even thus far. Hoping that now that games matter we play a lot more like they do.

I'm going to say this, if we don't go 10-6 or better, we have no choice but to go hard after a QB. And Rage for the record, I think we need to no matter what, but I could see the argument made if our record exceeds 10-6.

I'll throw out one more predicition, I see our first pick being either a QB,CB or LT. And that is without really understanding who will be available outside of QB. I just see a huge need for upgrade at CB, and if we lost Albert unless Stephenson steps up and beasts...we'll need another pick.


For the record, who are "they"?

I agree, it'd really suck if Routt struggles, Stephenson is deemed not good enough, we let Albert go, so we need both QB and LT as well as CB when we coulda kept Carr for a little more, drafted Wilson instead of Stephenson, then tag Albert and our 1st rounder could be a luxury pick...imagine how much Pioli would hate that.


Last edited by ArrowheadRage58 on Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Eric Berry


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it is absolutely hilarious how 90% of the posters on this board think Russel Wilson is destined for the hall of fame and would have immediately turned us into magical super bowl contenders had we drafted him. I'm so tired of hearing about this coulda woulda shoulda garbage about Wilson and Stephenson it makes me sick
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ArrowheadRage58


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HOF? No... Bright Future? Yes

Where are you getting this HOF stuff? We also don't need anything a whole lot better than Cassel to be legit SB contenders...but we do need an upgrade.

I would've been fine with a CB instead of Stephenson, but drafting a position (LT) we already are good at over ones we are the weakest at like QB or CB likely means we aren't really that committed to keeping Albert or we feel that QB/CB are already good enough and either one is a fail IMO because it doesn't seem like the organization wants to win that bad (or is just incompetent)...what else is a fan gonna think if we don't value QB and don't value keeping our own good players when we have the money to do so.
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DT58_lives_on


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EB It's more about not ignoring the position. I'll admit that I'm a bigger supporter of Wilson than most, but I had a lot more experience watching him succeed on 2 different teams, and with the Badgers he was behind an NFL sized line, playing well there negated what in my mind was his biggest knock that being his size.

And the Wilson over Stephenson comes in the fact that one is clearly a developmental project who could be good. And the other has shown the ability to come in, grasp an offense and play at a high level even with lesser talent around him (Rage's biggest knock about Quinn/Stanzi is playing with 2nd/3rd string, Wilson looked good there too) (Not that Rage dislikes Wilson, but I digress).

The other issue with why people are upset about Wilson is this. We know where Cassel's ceiling is, we can assume where Quinn's is, and honestly Stanzi was always a long shot. So why not take a chance on a young guy with a lot of upside? Yes it is hard to know how they pan out, but it isn't like we were blowing yet another 1st round pick on a QB here...the risk vs. reward of a 3rd round QB evens out pretty quickly, and hindsight allows some of us to be proven right, when that "too small rookie" is deemed the starter over an incumbent and a covetted FA signing.
Rage as far as who they is, I am hoping the team plays a lot more like the games (they do) matter.
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Eric Berry


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I'm saying is the Chiefs had their reasons for not selecting Russel Wilson. We may never know those reasons. 30 other teams also had reasons not to as well. Maybe the Seahawks found a superstar, but maybe they didn't? The Chiefs put in more time researching, studying, and watching film on Wilson than we could even begin to think of and the same goes with Stephenson. I think we can all agree that Pioli and our entire scouting department has done a very excellent job in regards to building this team through the draft with their scouting. They decided not to select Wilson and decided to select Stephenson instead, and sure that could prove to be a crippling move. But maybe not? Maybe Stephenson starts next season, or even plays this season, and proves to be a terrific draft choice after all? Time will tell about that.

We have seen each of these players play a total of 4 preseason games. Sure, I 100% agree with you that Wilson has looked miles better than Cassel, better than Stephenson, all of that. But what drives me crazy is how we are just writing Stephenson off because a team one pick after us reached for a QB who looks to be the real deal in the preseason but has yet to play a regular season game. Believe me, I'm right along side you both for wanting an upgrade at QB. I spent so much time imagining how excellent we would be with Manning or Luck or RG3 running the team just like everyone else. But I just can't understand how we are already devaluing the Stephenson pick to the point that it's like he shouldn't even be on the 53 man roster when day 1 he was better than two of the offensive tackles we had on our roster last year at a position that is arguably the second most important on the entire team. Let's watch this thing play out instead of every 10 posts talking about how we should have drafted this player or that player. I'm on your sides here, get anyone in there. I would support drafting a quarterback in every single round next year just to virtually guarantee an upgrade at the position. But to see how badly the defense as a unit and some of our depth players played in the preseason and to say we are super bowl contenders with a slight upgrade at QB is just missing the point in my eyes. A lot of things have come together perfectly for Russel Wilson so far, he looks great and I wish so badly that he was a Chief. That doesn't mean I'm writing off the Stephenson pick as a complete waste or an utter failure. Let's give this 3-4 years before deciding that. And let's talk about the Chiefs, not Wilson in the meantime since he has pretty much nothing to do with us. If we continue to do this for the rest of the year while Wilson performs and Stephenson rides the bench, we will drive ourselves crazy. It's time to get past that, the seahawks took Wilson and we didn't. I'm over it. If anything lets spend that time talking about 2013 prospects that at least have chances to be future Chiefs, not the Seattle Seahawks rookie starting QB.
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eric Berry wrote:
All I'm saying is the Chiefs had their reasons for not selecting Russel Wilson. We may never know those reasons. 30 other teams also had reasons not to as well. Maybe the Seahawks found a superstar, but maybe they didn't? The Chiefs put in more time researching, studying, and watching film on Wilson than we could even begin to think of and the same goes with Stephenson. I think we can all agree that Pioli and our entire scouting department has done a very excellent job in regards to building this team through the draft with their scouting. They decided not to select Wilson and decided to select Stephenson instead, and sure that could prove to be a crippling move. But maybe not? Maybe Stephenson starts next season, or even plays this season, and proves to be a terrific draft choice after all? Time will tell about that.

We have seen each of these players play a total of 4 preseason games. Sure, I 100% agree with you that Wilson has looked miles better than Cassel, better than Stephenson, all of that. But what drives me crazy is how we are just writing Stephenson off because a team one pick after us reached for a QB who looks to be the real deal in the preseason but has yet to play a regular season game. Believe me, I'm right along side you both for wanting an upgrade at QB. I spent so much time imagining how excellent we would be with Manning or Luck or RG3 running the team just like everyone else. But I just can't understand how we are already devaluing the Stephenson pick to the point that it's like he shouldn't even be on the 53 man roster when day 1 he was better than two of the offensive tackles we had on our roster last year at a position that is arguably the second most important on the entire team. Let's watch this thing play out instead of every 10 posts talking about how we should have drafted this player or that player. I'm on your sides here, get anyone in there. I would support drafting a quarterback in every single round next year just to virtually guarantee an upgrade at the position. But to see how badly the defense as a unit and some of our depth players played in the preseason and to say we are super bowl contenders with a slight upgrade at QB is just missing the point in my eyes. A lot of things have come together perfectly for Russel Wilson so far, he looks great and I wish so badly that he was a Chief. That doesn't mean I'm writing off the Stephenson pick as a complete waste or an utter failure. Let's give this 3-4 years before deciding that. And let's talk about the Chiefs, not Wilson in the meantime since he has pretty much nothing to do with us. If we continue to do this for the rest of the year while Wilson performs and Stephenson rides the bench, we will drive ourselves crazy. It's time to get past that, the seahawks took Wilson and we didn't. I'm over it. If anything lets spend that time talking about 2013 prospects that at least have chances to be future Chiefs, not the Seattle Seahawks rookie starting QB.


LET'S DO IT!
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DT58_lives_on wrote:
Quote:
Better look at the QB position again. There's 5 losses right there.

This is a QB league and the Chiefs are trotting Matt Cassell out there. Not buying for a second he's anything more than a franchise paid backup.


It really amuses me that Palooka called out Rage of all people on this. As we all know Rage is well aware of what we have in Cassel.

To say Cassel will cost us 5 games seems harsh. I don't think Cassel will be at fault for that many games lost. I'm not saying (obviously from my predictions) that we won't lose 5 games.

In 2010 Cassel with a less talented team around him put up 27TDs and 7INTs.

Since I usually defend you Palooka as not being a troll I'll ask you this. When is the last time a Raider QB put up near those numbers? I'll give you a hint, his name rhymes with Cannon, and it was a decade ago. Collins was ok in 05 but had 7 less TDs and 5 more INTs.


Using 2010 as evidence for success in 2012 is misguided. Charlie Wies isn't here to help mask Cassel as he did in 2010. He also isn't playing a fluff schedule as was the case in 2010. The division alone has improved 10 fold.

I've yet to see Cassel match up against a good defense and play well. He's usually overwhelmed and out of sync when challenged by a good defense.

As for the Raiders QB issues, it is what it is. Retread after retread and thanks to Hue Jackson, that's where they are again.

Regardless, Cassel's 27 TD's meant nothing when he was finally matched up against a good defense who rocked his world in the playoffs and that's the point. There are a number of tough defenses he will face this season and he's not shown any ability against them.
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onejayhawk


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Using 2010 as evidence for success in 2012 is misguided. Charlie Wies isn't here to help mask Cassel as he did in 2010. He also isn't playing a fluff schedule as was the case in 2010. The division alone has improved 10 fold.

I've yet to see Cassel match up against a good defense and play well. He's usually overwhelmed and out of sync when challenged by a good defense.

As for the Raiders QB issues, it is what it is. Retread after retread and thanks to Hue Jackson, that's where they are again.

Regardless, Cassel's 27 TD's meant nothing when he was finally matched up against a good defense who rocked his world in the playoffs and that's the point. There are a number of tough defenses he will face this season and he's not shown any ability against them.

2010 is the best basis we have. You need to start there. True, Weis is gone, but Daboll is a solid run oriented OC, and Carthon is still here. Even if you give an edge to Weis, it is not a big one. The concept of the offense is still the same.

Talentwise, it is not close. Bowe is Bowe. Breaston is better than Chambers, Moeaki is a year more experienced and we had nothing like Baldwin. Hillis is a huge step up from Thomas Jones. The OL is a bit of a concern. This group has more talent, but 2010 had Waters in one of his better years, plus good years from Lilja and Albert. OTOH RT was not good. Call it a push for now

As much as it can be said to track anywhere, this season tracks 2010 for Cassel. Weis may not be here, but his old game plans are. Charles, Bowe, Albert, Moeaki are here, and with more experience. Remember Moeaki was a rookie. Albert and Charles were entering the 3rd year. Also you have to acknowledge 2008, which is Cassel's Pro Bowl year. The level of talent around him rivals that Patriot team. Cassel is dependent on his talent, but he can also use it.

J
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ArrowheadRage58


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eric Berry wrote:
All I'm saying is the Chiefs had their reasons for not selecting Russel Wilson. We may never know those reasons. 30 other teams also had reasons not to as well.


The obvious rebuttal to that is 30 other teams either have a franchise QB, a young starter they believe in, or they drafted a guy before Wilson.

If Stephenson starts, thats bad news cuz it means we didn't bother to keep Albert. I'm also not bashing Stephenson as a player/pick at all...he very well may be good...but there were better NEED options available and if he works out it likely means a downgrade at LT with Albert gone.

To say we aren't SB contenders even with a better QB because of what we saw in preseason is a little pessimistic...sure it's possible we aren't, but I think it's much more likely we are based on what we've added, how the defense played last year, the guys returning from injury, and how the rest of the individuals on offense played last year.

I also don't believe we're going 13-3
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Arrowhead86


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



anyone else wanna get their 2012 record on.. ahem.. record?
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onejayhawk


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I posted this elsewhere, but here it is again.

Week 1: Chiefs v. Falcons WIN
Week 2: Chiefs v. Bills WIN
Week 3: Chiefs v. Saints WIN
Week 4: Chiefs v. Chargers WIN
Week 5: Chiefs v. Ravens Loss
Week 6: Chiefs v. Buccaneers WIN

Week 7: BYE

Week 8: Chiefs v. Raiders WIN
Week 9: Chiefs v. Chargers Loss
Week 10: Chiefs v. Steelers Loss
Week 11: Chiefs v. Bengals WIN
Week 12: Chiefs v. Broncos WIN
Week 13: Chiefs v. Panthers WIN
Week 14: Chiefs v. Browns WIN
Week 15: Chiefs v. Raiders WIN
Week 16: Chiefs v. Colts WIN
Week 17: Chiefs v. Broncos WIN

J
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DT58_lives_on


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J, I just don't know that I see us going 13-3 but I love the optimism. And Palooka, if you're so sure that our QB is going to be terrible why not put a sig bet out there? Better QB at the end of the season gets to choose the sig for the other person?
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samsel23


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guess I'll throw mine out there;

vs Atlanta - Loss (I think Arrowhead will be rocking, injuries/Tamba hold us back)

@ Buffalo - Win (Romeo will have this team ready for this game)

@ New Orleans - Win (Call me crazy but I think we match up pretty well against the Saints)

vs San Diego - Win

vs Baltimore - Loss (Run D is too suspect for me to predict a win)

@ Tampa Bay - Win (We pressure Freeman into 3 picks)

vs Oakland - Loss (McFadden is too much to handle in this one)

@ San Diego - Win (We get the sweep on the Chargers)

@ Pittsburg - Win (Romeo's D against Haleys O- I'll take Romeo)

vs Cincinnati - Win (I think pull out the W here)

vs Denver - Win (Arrowhead will be rocking)

vs Carolina - Loss (Sets record for fastest game ever played)

@ Cleveland - Win (Browns are there yet, I like there young guys though)

@ Oakland - Win (Stop the sweep for the Raiders)

vs Indy - Win (Running game goes wild in this game)

@ Denver - Loss (Peyton brings them back in the last 3 minutes)


I have us anywhere between 7-9 and 10-5
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last I will get into this with you, because it's like talking to a wall.

onejayhawk wrote:

2010 is the best basis we have. You need to start there. True, Weis is gone, but Daboll is a solid run oriented OC, and Carthon is still here. Even if you give an edge to Weis, it is not a big one. The concept of the offense is still the same.


Again, schedule. 2010, was about as easy a schedule as you'd find. The division alone has improved 10 fold since 2010. Then add in the like of ATL, Buf, NO, Pitt, Balt to name a few. Night and day the level of competition KC will face. KC will not go 5-1 in the division as you predict. You can be assured of that.

onejayhawk wrote:
Talentwise, it is not close. Bowe is Bowe. Breaston is better than Chambers, Moeaki is a year more experienced and we had nothing like Baldwin. Hillis is a huge step up from Thomas Jones. The OL is a bit of a concern. This group has more talent, but 2010 had Waters in one of his better years, plus good years from Lilja and Albert. OTOH RT was not good. Call it a push for now


Again. You fail to acknowledge the changes from one year to the next. You just assume X player is better 'just because'. Moeaki a prime example. Had a nice rookie year, major knee injury last year and you just assume he's better today 'just because'. He could easily never regain form and who knows, never live up to his rookie season. It's happened to better rookies.

onejayhawk wrote:
As much as it can be said to track anywhere, this season tracks 2010 for Cassel. Weis may not be here, but his old game plans are. Charles, Bowe, Albert, Moeaki are here, and with more experience. Remember Moeaki was a rookie. Albert and Charles were entering the 3rd year. Also you have to acknowledge 2008, which is Cassel's Pro Bowl year. The level of talent around him rivals that Patriot team. Cassel is dependent on his talent, but he can also use it.

J


You show me a situation where Cassel ever played a strong defense and played well. It's literally never happened. If KC falls behind in a game, it's over. He can't carry a team on his back and make plays against a good defense.

You have KC going 5-1 before the bye. Sig bet you they don't hit that mark.
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DT58_lives_on wrote:
J, I just don't know that I see us going 13-3 but I love the optimism. And Palooka, if you're so sure that our QB is going to be terrible why not put a sig bet out there? Better QB at the end of the season gets to choose the sig for the other person?


Wait.... am I pounding the table for Palmer? I never mentioned him, so why are we sig betting about 'better QBs' exactly?
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