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A Look Ahead: 2013 Draft Class (QB)
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Totty


Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 9499
Location: Moundsville W.V.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:45 pm    Post subject: A Look Ahead: 2013 Draft Class (QB) Reply with quote

So, earlier I went in to the NFL Mock Draft Forum and noticed that 9 out of 10 mocks had us taking a QB in the first round (typically top 5-10 pick). I wasn't aware that we needed a QB so bad, figured I would tack it up to outside fans just being ignorant to our situation.

Then I got thinking about how Carson has been a hot button topic in here, and looked at a few things:

1) Carson does have a tendency to make dumb throws. And at at the age of 32, should be beyond that.

2) He is NOT Reggie, or DA's guy. Our cap situation and current roster make up forced Carson in to the position he is in. We don't have much on the roster to challenge Carson, and quite frankly, didn't have a slew of picks in the draft to warrant taking a QB.

3) Age. Carson is looking at the back side of his career, and at the ripe old age of 32, may have 3-4 decent seasons in him. Do we move on sooner then later?

4) Money. Carson is set to make only 850k this season. But will make 28 mil. over the next two. That will be difficult given the current state of the cap, the end could be near.


All that being said.. I wanted to see what you guys thought were the best viable options at QB in the 2013 NFL Draft.



Logan Thomas: 6'7" 262lbs.
--Pros--
-Mechanics
-Athleticism
-Arm Strength
-Mobility

--Cons--
-Accuracy
-Footwork
-Mobility
-Raw

Logan Thomas is the epitome of prototypical size. At 6'6"-6'7" 260ish lbs, his body can hold up to a longer more brutal NFL schedule. The one thing about Thomas is while he can run, he isn't always looking to dump the ball off while in flight. He chooses to use his legs too often. Many of his cons are coachable, but is he just to raw to be taken with our first round pick?



Matt Barkley 6'2" 220lbs.
--Pros--
-Leadership
-Smart
-Runs Pro Style Offense
-Elite Competition

--Cons--
-Not Elite Arm Strength
-Mobility
-Inconsistent Accuracy

Matt Barkley won't 'woo' anyone with his arm, or his legs. He doesn't have a 'wow' factor about him. But scouts scream that his leadership, studious ways about him, and ability to handle the pressure of a big time program are more then enough to make him a successful QB at the next level. Being a SoCal kid means he will feel right at home in the silver and black.

Update 9-1-12



Tyler Wilson 6'3" 220lbs.
--Pros--
-Arm Strength
-Elite Competition
-Poise
-Accuracy

--Cons--
-Mechanics

This could be my personal choice. I love the kid as a franchise QB type. He plays the role of leader very well, and is as well rounded as any QB in college football. His mechanics are something that can be tweeked, and that is all they really need. I hope he is not the product of the Petrino system, and if he can lead this team to a bowl game this year, and play with some improvment over last year, look for Tyler to be picked in the top 5. I would love this kid in S&B. EDIT:: After second viewings of the tapes, his mobility is not a con at the college level. He is very elusive, and can make throws on the run. But at the next level I don't know he can mek the same plays.


Tyler Bray 6'6" 215lbs.
--Pros--
-Arm Strength
-Pro Style QB
-Good Reads

--Cons--
-Maturity??
-Frame Build
-Accuracy

Tyler Bray is probably the most naturally gifted QB thus far. Thing is, he is a kid and still acts that part. He makes bad decisions on and off the field. Many scouting reports I have read seem to say the same thing. "Kid can be a franchise QB, if he grows up." Product of a pro style, under center, type of offense. Plays against some of the best talent in the country. But will a team take a chance on him if he keeps up his off the field concerns? I say yes, I just hope it isn't us.
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Last edited by Totty on Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:03 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Totty


Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 9499
Location: Moundsville W.V.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will continue this shortly. (Reserved)
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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, here it goes: I am a Palmer supporter, but with his age, salary, and results (assuming he does not play well this season), I would be all for drafting a QB in the 1st. Even if Palmer plays well, he wont be around much longer, either due to his age or salary. We wouldnt necessarily need to throw this young QB to the lions, he could sit and learn for a year or two.

Admittedly, I havent followed many college QBs recently, so aside I dont know much of anyone aside from hearing their name. I do not, allow me to repeat- do not, want a QB who will need to work on mechanics or accuracy. I want a QB who is a good leader, with good mechanics and is at least pretty accurate. No Jake Lockers, or Tim Tebows please. Arm strength? Who cares. As long as he gets enough zip on the ball to avoid leaving ducks in the air I'm cool. This is a WCO, after all, so we need an accurate arm, not rocket.
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I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 6182
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have looked at this extensively. Whether or not the Raiders select a QB will depend a lot on how Palmer fares this season. Keep in mind there McKenzie, Knapp, DA & Palmer are all trying to figure each other out and find chemistry between the play book and the player's physical abilities. There will be bumps in the road and chemistry may take time, however barring a complete meltdown by both Palmer and Leinart I think the Raiders will stand pat. Keep in mind the Raiders have other pressing concerns other than QB. I would suggest that McKenzie would rather take a transcendent player at a position of need rather than draft Palmer's successor and keep him on the bench for 2 seasons. (I would think Amerson if the Raiders were drafting that high)

Ultimately, I feel the draftniks are wrong. The Raiders are still short on draft picks and high on payroll. I think Palmer will play adequately enough to build around in the short term. Every season he will restructure so his compensation is not a factor.

Also, the AFC as a conference is down as is the AFC West. There are tons of question marks with every team in the AFC West and the division winner will likely come down to the season finale. Imo, with the division being so competitive I don't believe the Raiders will play poorly enough to be in the top 10.

For the record I would rather develop Pryor than draft Logan Thomas. Thomas has proven nothing so far and people are already salivating. If he has ANY success there will be an avalanche of fan hype. Imo, Barkley will go 1st overall benefiting from the Luck/RG3 debate. RG3 is a nice player but Luck is the type of transcendent player that never should have been compared in the same breath. Teams will ultimately go with the prototype (ie perceived sure thing) regardless of whether the comparisons are applicable.
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(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

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Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22755
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need a QB to win consistently in the NFL. It's why the Pats remain such a force for over a decade. Why the Lions are starting to become relevant again. Why the Packers are unstoppable and why the Saints have enjoyed a revival of sorts.

I am ALL for the Raiders addressing the QB position with a bluechip prospect. They've needed a QBOTF for years.

Carson hasn't got much left, so finding a replacement is key. Question is where he will be found. Barkely would murder in this offense.

It's pretty interesting when you look at the team who will likely need a QB next year:

Jets - Do they give up on Sanchez?
KC - Unless Cassel seriously picks it up.
Arizona - They are a lock to address their miserable QB situation

Baring coaching changes, injuries or poor performance every other team has either an established vet at the positions or has recently acquired a young signal caller.

It could shape up as a good year for Oakland to be patient and take a signal caller.

Edit:

Buffalo is on that list. Ftiz isn't a long term solution.
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big_palooka


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Location: ATL
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
I have looked at this extensively. Whether or not the Raiders select a QB will depend a lot on how Palmer fares this season. Keep in mind there McKenzie, Knapp, DA & Palmer are all trying to figure each other out and find chemistry between the play book and the player's physical abilities. There will be bumps in the road and chemistry may take time, however barring a complete meltdown by both Palmer and Leinart I think the Raiders will stand pat. Keep in mind the Raiders have other pressing concerns other than QB. I would suggest that McKenzie would rather take a transcendent player at a position of need rather than draft Palmer's successor and keep him on the bench for 2 seasons. (I would think Amerson if the Raiders were drafting that high)

Ultimately, I feel the draftniks are wrong. The Raiders are still short on draft picks and high on payroll. I think Palmer will play adequately enough to build around in the short term. Every season he will restructure so his compensation is not a factor.

Also, the AFC as a conference is down as is the AFC West. There are tons of question marks with every team in the AFC West and the division winner will likely come down to the season finale. Imo, with the division being so competitive I don't believe the Raiders will play poorly enough to be in the top 10.

For the record I would rather develop Pryor than draft Logan Thomas. Thomas has proven nothing so far and people are already salivating. If he has ANY success there will be an avalanche of fan hype. Imo, Barkley will go 1st overall benefiting from the Luck/RG3 debate. RG3 is a nice player but Luck is the type of transcendent player that never should have been compared in the same breath. Teams will ultimately go with the prototype (ie perceived sure thing) regardless of whether the comparisons are applicable.


I agree with everything you are saying, but Reggie knows Palmers got maybe 3 good years left. This allows him to get a QB of his choice that fits the WCO and let him grow a year behind Palmer.

And as I alluded to in my last post, there isn't a lot of QB needy teams right now. So the possibilities of landing a good one are greater.
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agarcia34


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Tyler Wilson the most. But I think we kind of have to go after a QB if Palmer doesn't have a monster season.
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bitty


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt will be a top pick in the draft, maybe number 1
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 6182
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I respectfully disagree.

These teams will be picking before the Raiders:
Browns- New ownership, HC & GM otw out; no brand new HC & GM will pass on Barkley for a 30yr developmental project.
Miami - QB is MIA
KC - Matt Cassell? Seriously, what are they thinking? Stanzi & Quinn are jokes. A solid team will falter at the most critical position. And yes, the Raiders will finish ahead of them in conference.
Cards - Obvious.

Possibly in the market:
NYJ - Sanchez may get yet another competitor in TC
Jax - Gabby looks decent now but if he looks as bad as he did last season the team may cut bait
Bills - I have more faith in Fritz than you do, although slightly

Two of the 3 top prospects will be gone by the time the Raiders are on the clock, imvho. Every draft usually has 2 real prospects are the rest are fool's gold. The Raiders will be left with either Josh Thomas, which will make some VERY happy, Bray, if he enters the draft, or Landry Jones.

None of the later 3 are prospects I would draft over a player like Amerson. (Not that there are any guarantees) I would rather draft an Aaron Murray- type later in the round to develop and build around Palmer in the short term. The NFL has been dumbed down, there is very little reason that young QBs cannot find success rather early. If the Raiders are not going to play a young prospect right away or he's raw I say pass.

There WILL be other prospects (unless you can draft a Luck) in the future. The Raiders don't HAVE to draft Palmer's successor THIS off season. Let's use this opportunity to clean up the books over the next few seasons so that Raiders can start off with a new QB, a solid veteran OL, youth at the skill positions and a ton of cap room in a brand new stadium in LA. (Sorry bout the last part)
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(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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LivingLegendWFC


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miami just drafted a QB in the top ten this year. They won't be in the market for a QB.
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Browns and Phins just invested in QBs. They are not going to write them off after a year. Jax isn't going to write Gabby off this soon.

Things change obviously but a lot of teams have QBs they've invested in a will see through.
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GJT1347


Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 1694
Location: Omaha
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there are going to be 5 to 6 QB's with 1st- early 2nd round grades next year. VERY talented draft, which means one or more of them will drop. Raiders might be able to snag a 1st round talend in round 3, or trade up into the 2nd and snag one. I am not worried about the future of our QB position because i am a believer in Carson Palmer for the next 2 to 3 years, and i also believe in the development of Terrell Pryor. Not to mention that there are QB's coming out of college every single year now that are ready to step in and play from day 1.

I belive that the first round next year has to address one of three positions... CB, RT, or LB. probably in that order.
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TiberiusRising


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You dont keep a guy like Palmer, Seymour and their salaries if you dont think you are already close. I hightly doubt we draft a Franchise QB next season unless this season falls apart. Their goal next year will be to just fill holes with quality players.
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silver_surfer


Joined: 21 Aug 2012
Posts: 265
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
I respectfully disagree.

These teams will be picking before the Raiders:
Browns- New ownership, HC & GM otw out; no brand new HC & GM will pass on Barkley for a 30yr developmental project.
Miami - QB is MIA
KC - Matt Cassell? Seriously, what are they thinking? Stanzi & Quinn are jokes. A solid team will falter at the most critical position. And yes, the Raiders will finish ahead of them in conference.
Cards - Obvious.

Possibly in the market:
NYJ - Sanchez may get yet another competitor in TC
Jax - Gabby looks decent now but if he looks as bad as he did last season the team may cut bait
Bills - I have more faith in Fritz than you do, although slightly

Two of the 3 top prospects will be gone by the time the Raiders are on the clock, imvho. Every draft usually has 2 real prospects are the rest are fool's gold. The Raiders will be left with either Josh Thomas, which will make some VERY happy, Bray, if he enters the draft, or Landry Jones.

None of the later 3 are prospects I would draft over a player like Amerson. (Not that there are any guarantees) I would rather draft an Aaron Murray- type later in the round to develop and build around Palmer in the short term. The NFL has been dumbed down, there is very little reason that young QBs cannot find success rather early. If the Raiders are not going to play a young prospect right away or he's raw I say pass.

There WILL be other prospects (unless you can draft a Luck) in the future. The Raiders don't HAVE to draft Palmer's successor THIS off season. Let's use this opportunity to clean up the books over the next few seasons so that Raiders can start off with a new QB, a solid veteran OL, youth at the skill positions and a ton of cap room in a brand new stadium in LA. (Sorry bout the last part)


teams that will be on the Market

Cards-
KC- I think Cassell will flop

Jets- all signs point to Sanchez becoming a scapegoat.. that team is all hype an d isn't as talented as they once were

Jax, Cle, Mia just drafted QBS... Weeden will get atleast 2-3 years


that leaves two teams
Logan Thomas, Barkley, Bray, Landry Jones as blue chippers as of right now
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RaisinBran


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Palmer doesn't play above average this year I have no problem drafting a QB in the 1st.

I'm not really aware of the prospects outside of Matt B and Landry Jones.
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