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| Total Votes : 39 |
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ArrowheadRage58
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 3467
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 Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| OILCHIEFS wrote: |
Okay so 23M into one position not counting the 2-3 other guys we keep. So your willing to put 19% of our total salary into 3 guys. I'd like you to find one successful team that does that. You won't.
And you can't say "Cmon! And don't come at me with that money will be used next year for Dorsey and Albert."
Why would I completely disregard two of our better players in contract years. Their backups have done nothing to prove they can start. If a team was ran like that they would continually end near the bottom.
There is so much more to look at then just 1 game man. It's a huge picture with so many moving parts. |
Any team with a top QB, puts 19% into 3 guys...maybe even more teams than that. Also, since we don't have a top QB, we need to put more in other places.
You figured it out...our backup CB's have done nothing to prove they can start...I'd say it's a fairly important position. |
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Chiefs_5627
Joined: 26 Dec 2007
Posts: 3009
Location: Genoville
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DT58_lives_on
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 4929
Location: St. Cloud, MN
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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Was anyone else both terrified and excited when Cassel got up limping?
What a poo-show that would have ensued there, at least we would be better prepared than trotting out footsteps.
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lomaxgr
Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 19791
Location: Manchester, England
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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Hey guys, do any of you have access to the 'all-22' and endzone Coaches tape? I am just watching it now and on the first Atlanta drive you guys played exclusively with a single high Safety (Kendrick Lewis' backup) with Eric Berry playing in the box on all but one play. Was this a fixture of the game? Berry has already blitzed twice and been matched up in man coverage with Gonzo twice.
Fascinating stuff.
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Jakuvious
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 4542
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| lomaxgr wrote: | Hey guys, do any of you have access to the 'all-22' and endzone Coaches tape? I am just watching it now and on the first Atlanta drive you guys played exclusively with a single high Safety (Kendrick Lewis' backup) with Eric Berry playing in the box on all but one play. Was this a fixture of the game? Berry has already blitzed twice and been matched up in man coverage with Gonzo twice.
Fascinating stuff. |
He blitzed far less later, but he did usually stay in the box. It is a much more legitimate defensive plan when we have Lewis back there instead of Elam, IMO.
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nicfre2011
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 5302
Location: SC
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:01 am Post subject: |
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Did Travis Daniels get any playing time against the Falcons? He seems to be the forgotten man on the roster - I know he has been mentioned a couple of times in this forum, but I am somewhat surprised that when push came to shove Daniels wasn't used at cornerback instead of Reeves in Flowers' abscence.
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Jakuvious
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 4542
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| nicfre2011 wrote: | | Did Travis Daniels get any playing time against the Falcons? He seems to be the forgotten man on the roster - I know he has been mentioned a couple of times in this forum, but I am somewhat surprised that when push came to shove Daniels wasn't used at cornerback instead of Reeves in Flowers' abscence. |
He got 31 snaps at safety, which made him our 5th DB, actually.
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bigschmadt00
Joined: 17 Dec 2008
Posts: 10553
Location: Seeing what condition my condition is in
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Jakuvious wrote: | | lomaxgr wrote: | Hey guys, do any of you have access to the 'all-22' and endzone Coaches tape? I am just watching it now and on the first Atlanta drive you guys played exclusively with a single high Safety (Kendrick Lewis' backup) with Eric Berry playing in the box on all but one play. Was this a fixture of the game? Berry has already blitzed twice and been matched up in man coverage with Gonzo twice.
Fascinating stuff. |
He blitzed far less later, but he did usually stay in the box. It is a much more legitimate defensive plan when we have Lewis back there instead of Elam, IMO. |
IMO it's only a valid plan with a CB that doesn't need safety help on one side. Apparently they don't think Routt is that guy, and we all know Reeves isn't. Given what we know now as fans, and what our coaches should have before the game (or at least after the first drive), we should have had 2 safeties deep helping over the top of both CB's.
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nicfre2011
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 5302
Location: SC
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| bigschmadt00 wrote: | | Jakuvious wrote: | | lomaxgr wrote: | Hey guys, do any of you have access to the 'all-22' and endzone Coaches tape? I am just watching it now and on the first Atlanta drive you guys played exclusively with a single high Safety (Kendrick Lewis' backup) with Eric Berry playing in the box on all but one play. Was this a fixture of the game? Berry has already blitzed twice and been matched up in man coverage with Gonzo twice.
Fascinating stuff. |
He blitzed far less later, but he did usually stay in the box. It is a much more legitimate defensive plan when we have Lewis back there instead of Elam, IMO. |
IMO it's only a valid plan with a CB that doesn't need safety help on one side. Apparently they don't think Routt is that guy, and we all know Reeves isn't. Given what we know now as fans, and what our coaches should have before the game (or at least after the first drive), we should have had 2 safeties deep helping over the top of both CB's. |
Bingo. And that right there shows a lack of gameplanning and adjustment. If the personnel allow Berry to stay close to the line of scrimmage as a rover then great, use him there. But if your personnel taking the field doesn't give you that luxury at the expense of maintaining adequate coverage, then you adjust your gameplan and scheme if necessary. That right there was a good example of poor gameplanning and in-game adjustments.
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ryknowssd
Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 22031
Location: Awesomeville
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| nicfre2011 wrote: | | Bingo. And that right there shows a lack of gameplanning and adjustment. If the personnel allow Berry to stay close to the line of scrimmage as a rover then great, use him there. But if your personnel taking the field doesn't give you that luxury at the expense of maintaining adequate coverage, then you adjust your gameplan and scheme if necessary. That right there was a good example of poor gameplanning and in-game adjustments. |
I think Flowers was a last second decision to be in pads or not and if I had to guess, I think Romeo thought he WOULD be able to play and that's why our game plan was what it was. I really don't like that we didn't play nickel on 90% of the snaps after the first couple series because I'd much rather take our chances on the the ground than through the air against their passing attack. But, once the 2nd half came and Atlanta had the lead, we kinda HAD to stick with keeping at least 6-7 guys in the box because running the ball drains the clock and they had the lead. Our first half game planning screwed us since Flowers didn't play. Tamba's absence obviously hurt a ton as well, but Flowers was the key to this gameplan and that much is obvious to me after watching the game a 2nd time. Once we got behind, though, we were screwed. We couldn't switch to a nickel because they would've just run it down our throats and drained the clock and we couldn't stack the box because they already knew we couldn't stop the pass. Double edged sword and we just flat out got stabbed with it.
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OILCHIEFS
Joined: 02 Feb 2011
Posts: 1301
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:55 am Post subject: |
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| bigschmadt00 wrote: | | OILCHIEFS wrote: | | Okay so 23M into one position not counting the 2-3 other guys we keep. So your willing to put 19% of our total salary into 3 guys. I'd like you to find one successful team that does that. You won't. |
I wonder what the Giants have in their d-line? I'd bet it's about $25MM. Tuck, JPP, Umenyiora, Kiwanuka.
All I'm saying is there is more then 1 way to skin a cat. We could have afforded to keep Carr by re-signing him about 2 years ago when was still an up and coming player, but one WE should have known was well worth the investment. Jason McCourty just signed what I would consider a reasonable extension more then a year before his current deal is up ($8.5MM per year). If we are so smart, we should have locked him up long before his deal came due. This philosophy of waiting and seeing is OK for certain folks, especially if you are waiting and seeing for character issues, but for guys who you know will show up every day the same guy, you simply don't wait until they become UFA's. We got DJ and JC cheap, we could have got Carr relatively cheap too IMO. I know I'm guessing, but you can't tell me in mid-season 2010 he wouldn't have taken a 5yr $40MM deal. |
As per roto, those four guys you mentioned actually are at 11M for combined salary. Obviously when JPP exits his rookie deal it will explode but still dealing with the facts here.
I agree that Carr should have been signed to an extension earlier on, but that's not what I was debating. It was about this offseason and with how much he was paid it just doesn't make sense to me in the longterm.
AH86, I agree that we have the resources to pay Carr 10M and that lots of teams play close to the cap. It does work that way. All im saying is i'd rather save that money for a more important position whether it be this year, next year or the one after. Getting stuck with Carr at 10M looks great in the short term but in the long haul, i see more bad then good.
When flowers gets back and Routt gets help, CB wont look as bad.
And Rage, I did a quick look on roto and no team I saw had QB's at 23M. Even if they did, QB is the most important position in the game of football. |
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lomaxgr
Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 19791
Location: Manchester, England
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:44 am Post subject: |
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Just so you know guys - I watched the rest of the half in all 22/endzone mode and Berry did start to play a lot deeper as the half went on. The Falcons adjusted too though by getting Gonzalez involved in the seams; it was a real game of 'cat and mouse'.
In my opinion, Crennel wanted his best Defensive playmaker around the ball to make plays not only in the short passing game but also on the ballcarrier and QB. It became apparent that Berry wasn't getting those chances with the way Ryan was targeting Jones and White, so you adjusted.
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Mikek163
Joined: 24 Nov 2008
Posts: 4668
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| ryknowssd wrote: | | nicfre2011 wrote: | | Bingo. And that right there shows a lack of gameplanning and adjustment. If the personnel allow Berry to stay close to the line of scrimmage as a rover then great, use him there. But if your personnel taking the field doesn't give you that luxury at the expense of maintaining adequate coverage, then you adjust your gameplan and scheme if necessary. That right there was a good example of poor gameplanning and in-game adjustments. |
I think Flowers was a last second decision to be in pads or not and if I had to guess, I think Romeo thought he WOULD be able to play and that's why our game plan was what it was. I really don't like that we didn't play nickel on 90% of the snaps after the first couple series because I'd much rather take our chances on the the ground than through the air against their passing attack. But, once the 2nd half came and Atlanta had the lead, we kinda HAD to stick with keeping at least 6-7 guys in the box because running the ball drains the clock and they had the lead. Our first half game planning screwed us since Flowers didn't play. Tamba's absence obviously hurt a ton as well, but Flowers was the key to this gameplan and that much is obvious to me after watching the game a 2nd time. Once we got behind, though, we were screwed. We couldn't switch to a nickel because they would've just run it down our throats and drained the clock and we couldn't stack the box because they already knew we couldn't stop the pass. Double edged sword and we just flat out got stabbed with it. |
QFT.
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nicfre2011
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 5302
Location: SC
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| ryknowssd wrote: | | nicfre2011 wrote: | | Bingo. And that right there shows a lack of gameplanning and adjustment. If the personnel allow Berry to stay close to the line of scrimmage as a rover then great, use him there. But if your personnel taking the field doesn't give you that luxury at the expense of maintaining adequate coverage, then you adjust your gameplan and scheme if necessary. That right there was a good example of poor gameplanning and in-game adjustments. |
I think Flowers was a last second decision to be in pads or not and if I had to guess, I think Romeo thought he WOULD be able to play and that's why our game plan was what it was. I really don't like that we didn't play nickel on 90% of the snaps after the first couple series because I'd much rather take our chances on the the ground than through the air against their passing attack. But, once the 2nd half came and Atlanta had the lead, we kinda HAD to stick with keeping at least 6-7 guys in the box because running the ball drains the clock and they had the lead. Our first half game planning screwed us since Flowers didn't play. Tamba's absence obviously hurt a ton as well, but Flowers was the key to this gameplan and that much is obvious to me after watching the game a 2nd time. Once we got behind, though, we were screwed. We couldn't switch to a nickel because they would've just run it down our throats and drained the clock and we couldn't stack the box because they already knew we couldn't stop the pass. Double edged sword and we just flat out got stabbed with it. |
I guess my issue with that is that if we need to keep 6-7 guys near the line of scrimmage to have any chance of consistently stopping the run WITH a defensive line that essentially ONLY stops the run as opposed to getting any pass rush, along with an inside linebacker in Belcher that is a liability in coverage, and an outside linebacker (who obviously was out) in Hali that primarily will be playing around the line of scrimmage and more often than not going to be pass rushing, then we are screwed. We shouldn't need Berry hanging around the line of scrimmage to shut down the run when we have among others two defensive ends that basically can only provide run defense and pretty much zero pass rush. I mean, this is the scheme concept we always use to justify the lack of pass rush right?
And I am not sure I buy the Flowers not playing was a curve to Crennel. It shouldn't have been. That is why you have depth - and depth that you know might have to move up depending on injuries. And if that depth can't handle the same assignments as the starter (which is understandable) then you make adjustments right out of the gate - you roll coverage help to Reeves, etc. Berry as a run defender and rover up at the line is a luxury that when we are firing on all cylinders we can keep him there. But when we have less than adequate outside coverage, you need to gameplan with that in mind before things get out of control.
I know I have been getting on my soapbox alot lately, I just want us to win and win often damnit! LOL
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ArrowheadRage58
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 3467
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| OILCHIEFS wrote: |
As per roto, those four guys you mentioned actually are at 11M for combined salary. Obviously when JPP exits his rookie deal it will explode but still dealing with the facts here.
I agree that Carr should have been signed to an extension earlier on, but that's not what I was debating. It was about this offseason and with how much he was paid it just doesn't make sense to me in the longterm.
AH86, I agree that we have the resources to pay Carr 10M and that lots of teams play close to the cap. It does work that way. All im saying is i'd rather save that money for a more important position whether it be this year, next year or the one after. Getting stuck with Carr at 10M looks great in the short term but in the long haul, i see more bad then good.
When flowers gets back and Routt gets help, CB wont look as bad.
And Rage, I did a quick look on roto and no team I saw had QB's at 23M. Even if they did, QB is the most important position in the game of football. |
Ok, well that more important position would be QB and we're not going to get a high priced FA, so it's gonna be a rookie who won't be payed a whole lot. Other than that there isn't anything more important that we need than CB. |
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