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Russell2Bailey


Joined: 20 Mar 2008
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Location: Where I will, I'll roam.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something I also noticed that we did against the 49ers in a passing situation. It almost looked like a 3-3-5 but it wasn't played like one.

RE-Dumervil

DT- Derek Wolfe

Robert Ayers Lined up over the Guard while Von lined up as a stand-up DE.

I like this but again, if I was a QB against this OL, I'd audible to a base run or a draw as soon as I saw this.
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lomaxgr


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
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Location: Manchester, England
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kansas bob wrote:
lomaxgr wrote:
kansas bob wrote:
Ayers would PROBABLY get more sacks but his job is to put stop the run and if needed put pressure on the QB and move him toward Doom!


Sorry, but this simply isn't true. Fans of teams all around the NFL make excuses for DE's that don't put up sack numbers by saying "their job is to stop the run". I remember Falcon fans doing it for Jamaal Anderson when he was sucking it up as a pass rusher. And it isn't just sack numbers; these can be misleading, but these type of players even fail the 'eye' test, and don't even pressure the QB.

What excuse does Ayers have for not being able to pressure the QB in 3rd and long situations? Is he 'playing the run' then? No, he isn't. He probably hasn't seen a single double team in his entire NFL career, yet he still sucks at rushing the passer.

That last sentence is just made up I am afraid. Find me one sack of Doom's where Ayers has put pressure on a QB and then moved said QB towards Doom.

Ayers is a poor pass rusher; that is the be all and end all of it. He can't consistently pressure the QB in any situation, so please don't use the "he is a run defender" excuse.

Ayers forte is stopping the run and he seals off the run really well. Doom is the pass rushing DE but isn't nearly as good against the rush as Ayers. I don't get all the Broncos games out here in Kansas but I have seen several times where Ayers shut off the escape route and forced the QB toward Doom before we got Von. Now Von is in on third and long and Ayers moved inside.
No Ayers isn't as good of pass rusher as Doom or Von but he still did pretty well at DE for last year being his first full year playing DE. He seals off the end pretty well. He sure doesn't deserve to be cut as some of these people on this forum is suggesting. He has improved last season as the year went by.


Again, I didn't see this improvement at all. When Von was hurt/missing reps, Ayers was as missing as he ever has been as a pass rushing DE. I actually think you overrate him against the run too, but that is a seperate discussion.
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lomaxgr wrote:
kansas bob wrote:
lomaxgr wrote:
kansas bob wrote:
Ayers would PROBABLY get more sacks but his job is to put stop the run and if needed put pressure on the QB and move him toward Doom!


Sorry, but this simply isn't true. Fans of teams all around the NFL make excuses for DE's that don't put up sack numbers by saying "their job is to stop the run". I remember Falcon fans doing it for Jamaal Anderson when he was sucking it up as a pass rusher. And it isn't just sack numbers; these can be misleading, but these type of players even fail the 'eye' test, and don't even pressure the QB.

What excuse does Ayers have for not being able to pressure the QB in 3rd and long situations? Is he 'playing the run' then? No, he isn't. He probably hasn't seen a single double team in his entire NFL career, yet he still sucks at rushing the passer.

That last sentence is just made up I am afraid. Find me one sack of Doom's where Ayers has put pressure on a QB and then moved said QB towards Doom.

Ayers is a poor pass rusher; that is the be all and end all of it. He can't consistently pressure the QB in any situation, so please don't use the "he is a run defender" excuse.

Ayers forte is stopping the run and he seals off the run really well. Doom is the pass rushing DE but isn't nearly as good against the rush as Ayers. I don't get all the Broncos games out here in Kansas but I have seen several times where Ayers shut off the escape route and forced the QB toward Doom before we got Von. Now Von is in on third and long and Ayers moved inside.
No Ayers isn't as good of pass rusher as Doom or Von but he still did pretty well at DE for last year being his first full year playing DE. He seals off the end pretty well. He sure doesn't deserve to be cut as some of these people on this forum is suggesting. He has improved last season as the year went by.


Again, I didn't see this improvement at all. When Von was hurt/missing reps, Ayers was as missing as he ever has been as a pass rushing DE. I actually think you overrate him against the run too, but that is a seperate discussion.


lomax, I know you've seen much more of Beal than I. What are your impressions?
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lomaxgr


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
lomax, I know you've seen much more of Beal than I. What are your impressions?


Seems like an average talent at the NFL level to me. Quite stiff due to limited athletic ability, plays with good leverage and is fairly active in the run game.

I think his ceiling is a Jeremy Mincey type player which would be very good obviously.
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germ-x


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After hearing how Wolfe was going to be used I knew that Ayers would lose reps and potentially his starting job. It would still surprise me if he doesn't make the team, but I also don't think he is a lock either.

I have said this before, but Ayers IMO, has been the most frustrating Bronco since he was drafted. I know people like to rag on him and the fact that he was even selected, but if anyone saw him at the Senior Bowl that season you would understand why he was thought of so highly. Ayers put on a clinic that year, it was one of the best showings I had ever seen. He was unblockable and embarrassed numerous OL's from OT's, to OC's and combinations of them. He beat these guys using an arsenal of moves as well, he wasn't a 1 trick pony. He used spins, swims, some speed, and a lot of power (especially setting OL's up with a burst off the snap, getting them off balance and going through them). It was an incredible week and with his size (6'3" 270+) it looked like he had the makings of being a terrific and complete football player with very little weaknesses and capable of playing in any situation. Not surprisingly many experts had him pegged as the top defensive player in that draft.

None of it has translated on the field. Not at Tennessee and so far not in Denver. I want to know why, lol. There of course are numerous possibilities, he may fold under the pressure, maybe he had a lucky week (I doubt that though, he was too dominant from start to finish), maybe he is too occupied with fulfilling his assignment and plays to rigid, maybe he doesn't put in the work required....I don't know. I do know that I never faulted picking him and never will. By all accounts Ayers is a quality huiman being and showed a skill set that if tapped into may have brought about an elite defender. I really didnt/dont mind taking that type of chance.
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Cutler06


Joined: 27 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

germ-x wrote:
After hearing how Wolfe was going to be used I knew that Ayers would lose reps and potentially his starting job. It would still surprise me if he doesn't make the team, but I also don't think he is a lock either.

I have said this before, but Ayers IMO, has been the most frustrating Bronco since he was drafted. I know people like to rag on him and the fact that he was even selected, but if anyone saw him at the Senior Bowl that season you would understand why he was thought of so highly. Ayers put on a clinic that year, it was one of the best showings I had ever seen. He was unblockable and embarrassed numerous OL's from OT's, to OC's and combinations of them. He beat these guys using an arsenal of moves as well, he wasn't a 1 trick pony. He used spins, swims, some speed, and a lot of power (especially setting OL's up with a burst off the snap, getting them off balance and going through them). It was an incredible week and with his size (6'3" 270+) it looked like he had the makings of being a terrific and complete football player with very little weaknesses and capable of playing in any situation. Not surprisingly many experts had him pegged as the top defensive player in that draft.

None of it has translated on the field. Not at Tennessee and so far not in Denver. I want to know why, lol. There of course are numerous possibilities, he may fold under the pressure, maybe he had a lucky week (I doubt that though, he was too dominant from start to finish), maybe he is too occupied with fulfilling his assignment and plays to rigid, maybe he doesn't put in the work required....I don't know. I do know that I never faulted picking him and never will. By all accounts Ayers is a quality huiman being and showed a skill set that if tapped into may have brought about an elite defender. I really didnt/dont mind taking that type of chance.


Well, consider the week. Because of the little time together during this week, there is very little chemistry between the O-linemen, so he (as do all dline attackers), have a bit of an advantage, taking the mano-e-mano approach. What bothers me is I don't see a lot of those moves from Ayers in the NFL.
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AntiSuperstar


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lomaxgr wrote:
I think his ceiling is a Jeremy Mincey type player which would be very good obviously.


That's an interesting comparison although perhaps I don't consider Beal quite as stiff as you do. From my perspective he's smaller and a smoother athlete than Mincey. I mean, his rush outside is quicker, he's shown a nice spin move, and he has even been on Special Teams running downfield in the past and none of these things are really in the job description of a Jeremy Mincey type player.

That said you might still be correct and it may even be a career path for Beal to gain some weight and be more like a Mincey type player. I don't know. But I do think so far he has shown enough(but will have to show more in preason game 4) that I would like to see the Broncos continue to work with and develop Beal as a player. Whether that's on the practice squad or the actual roster I don't know, but I like what I have seen from him.
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AKRNA


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:
lomaxgr wrote:
I think his ceiling is a Jeremy Mincey type player which would be very good obviously.


That's an interesting comparison although perhaps I don't consider Beal quite as stiff as you do. From my perspective he's smaller and a smoother athlete than Mincey. I mean, his rush outside is quicker, he's shown a nice spin move, and he has even been on Special Teams running downfield in the past and none of these things are really in the job description of a Jeremy Mincey type player.

That said you might still be correct and it may even be a career path for Beal to gain some weight and be more like a Mincey type player. I don't know. But I do think so far he has shown enough(but will have to show more in preason game 4) that I would like to see the Broncos continue to work with and develop Beal as a player. Whether that's on the practice squad or the actual roster I don't know, but I like what I have seen from him.


Thanx for the insight guys.

Should be interesting to watch the rotation tonight with our D-Linemen.
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