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Redskins sign former Bucs Kicker Kai Forbath; Cut K Cundiff
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Woz


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
DCRED wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Must be nice to have a kicker with a strong leg AND is accurate! Hopefully Forbath can be that for us Pray


Yeah. Shanahan said he hopes Forbath can be around for 15 YEARS!!! Let's hope he is that good!!! Pray

If we manage to get QB and K locked up for EVEN 10 years (in the same year!) I will be SO happy!
id like to draft Wiiig the P from LSU if he's around in the 6th or 7th round. It'd be nice to lock that down for 15 years also.


Don't draft a punter.
the dude is amazing and a Weapon


Sign him as a UDFA. If that fails, pick up a veteran. Or a crowd of vets and have them compete.

Just
do
not
draft
a
punter.

I don't care if they are people too, Rich. You just don't do it.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
DCRED wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Must be nice to have a kicker with a strong leg AND is accurate! Hopefully Forbath can be that for us Pray


Yeah. Shanahan said he hopes Forbath can be around for 15 YEARS!!! Let's hope he is that good!!! Pray

If we manage to get QB and K locked up for EVEN 10 years (in the same year!) I will be SO happy!
id like to draft Wiiig the P from LSU if he's around in the 6th or 7th round. It'd be nice to lock that down for 15 years also.


Don't draft a punter.
the dude is amazing and a Weapon


Sign him as a UDFA. If that fails, pick up a veteran. Or a crowd of vets and have them compete.

Just
do
not
draft
a
punter.

I don't care if they are people too, Rich. You just don't do it.
he will be drafted. He's a once in a generation talent as a punter.
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óDays until: NFL Draft 17; Training camp 93; Kickoff 186
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DCRED


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Forbath was Great as expected tonight. When he hit that 50 yarder with plenty to spare and close to the middle I thought: Yep, we finally got our K

Really glad for him and for the team. He has a really good attitude about persevering and a load of talent
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Brian23


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DCRED wrote:
Well Forbath was Great as expected tonight. When he hit that 50 yarder with plenty to spare and close to the middle I thought: Yep, we finally got our K

Really glad for him and for the team. He has a really good attitude about persevering and a load of talent


That's a bit much for making one kick...
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DCRED


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian23 wrote:
DCRED wrote:
Well Forbath was Great as expected tonight. When he hit that 50 yarder with plenty to spare and close to the middle I thought: Yep, we finally got our K

Really glad for him and for the team. He has a really good attitude about persevering and a load of talent


That's a bit much for making one kick...
Nah -actually it was his college history and all the records he set and awards he won, then going 5 for 5 in the preseason with Tampa, then coming in with only a few days with the snapper and making a 50 yarder look like a walk in the park

The 50 was just the icing on the cake
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DCRED wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
DCRED wrote:
Well Forbath was Great as expected tonight. When he hit that 50 yarder with plenty to spare and close to the middle I thought: Yep, we finally got our K

Really glad for him and for the team. He has a really good attitude about persevering and a load of talent


That's a bit much for making one kick...
Nah -actually it was his college history and all the records he set and awards he won, then going 5 for 5 in the preseason with Tampa, then coming in with only a few days with the snapper and making a 50 yarder look like a walk in the park

The 50 was just the icing on the cake
That's true, but It still was only one kick. Wink
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óDays until: NFL Draft 17; Training camp 93; Kickoff 186
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DCRED


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
DCRED wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
DCRED wrote:
Well Forbath was Great as expected tonight. When he hit that 50 yarder with plenty to spare and close to the middle I thought: Yep, we finally got our K

Really glad for him and for the team. He has a really good attitude about persevering and a load of talent


That's a bit much for making one kick...
Nah -actually it was his college history and all the records he set and awards he won, then going 5 for 5 in the preseason with Tampa, then coming in with only a few days with the snapper and making a 50 yarder look like a walk in the park

The 50 was just the icing on the cake
That's true, but It still was only one kick. Wink


I watched him in college and thought," When are we gonna find a guy like THIS?"
YES it's one kick but then he followed it up with a solid game. Just like he did all through college and in his brief NFL time. We've got ourselves a Keeper
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RSkinGM


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If he'd missed that 50 yard kick -- we would lost the game. He completely turned the momentum around. The Vikes would have had a 9 point lead and great field position. He was second MVP to Superman in my opinion.
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ripsean21


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly the thing that really made that kick speacial was when he was coing onto that field anybody that was there can tell you the wind got really crazy for about 3 or 5 min and he stroked it almost right down the middle with some crazy wind. i think thats why it was more impressive how accurate Griff was on his throws!

I could tell at times that Ponder was missing on throws and the wind could have been a real factor. i know we had preasure but he was missing throws ive seen him make with guys on him so im gonna say the wind was a factor.

but that kick was crazy because that for some reason the wind picked up and was the most wind all game and he kicked it flawlessly!
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Woz


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DCRED wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
DCRED wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
DCRED wrote:
Well Forbath was Great as expected tonight. When he hit that 50 yarder with plenty to spare and close to the middle I thought: Yep, we finally got our K

Really glad for him and for the team. He has a really good attitude about persevering and a load of talent


That's a bit much for making one kick...
Nah -actually it was his college history and all the records he set and awards he won, then going 5 for 5 in the preseason with Tampa, then coming in with only a few days with the snapper and making a 50 yarder look like a walk in the park

The 50 was just the icing on the cake
That's true, but It still was only one kick. Wink


I watched him in college and thought," When are we gonna find a guy like THIS?"
YES it's one kick but then he followed it up with a solid game. Just like he did all through college and in his brief NFL time. We've got ourselves a Keeper


Could have said the same of Durant Brooks. HUGE leg in college ... but bombed out in the pros.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
DCRED wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
DCRED wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
DCRED wrote:
Well Forbath was Great as expected tonight. When he hit that 50 yarder with plenty to spare and close to the middle I thought: Yep, we finally got our K

Really glad for him and for the team. He has a really good attitude about persevering and a load of talent


That's a bit much for making one kick...
Nah -actually it was his college history and all the records he set and awards he won, then going 5 for 5 in the preseason with Tampa, then coming in with only a few days with the snapper and making a 50 yarder look like a walk in the park

The 50 was just the icing on the cake
That's true, but It still was only one kick. Wink


I watched him in college and thought," When are we gonna find a guy like THIS?"
YES it's one kick but then he followed it up with a solid game. Just like he did all through college and in his brief NFL time. We've got ourselves a Keeper


Could have said the same of Durant Brooks. HUGE leg in college ... but bombed out in the pros.
was Durant's first punt a 70 yard boomer?

Forbath nailed a 50 yarder splitting the uprights in his first nfl kick. I like it. Seems he has confidence our last 15 kickers (or whatever the #) lacked, they would have all buckled under that pressure.
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óDays until: NFL Draft 17; Training camp 93; Kickoff 186
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RSkinGM


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read Cundiff was tricky tacky bout everything --The blocking, the hold, the snap ( which was 2/10ths or 2 hundreds slower with Snow ) .. Forbath 's attitude is -- put it down and I'll kick it..!!
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RSkinGM wrote:
I read Cundiff was tricky tacky bout everything --The blocking, the hold, the snap ( which was 2/10ths or 2 hundreds slower with Snow ) .. Forbath 's attitude is -- put it down and I'll kick it..!!
That's whats up! I love it
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óDays until: NFL Draft 17; Training camp 93; Kickoff 186
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mike23md


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While the kicker position seems almost mundane as we think that they just have to kick the ball through the uprights, something they have been doing all their life and should be a no brainer in the pros, is not quite as routine as it seems.

There are certain intricacies that kickers use to maximize the efficiency of their leg power and doing it in such a short amount of time.

Punters are expected to be able to kick the ball with pinpoint accuracy, regardless of the spot on the field from which the kick takes place. On countless occasions, well-placed kicks have decided the outcome of football games. Typicall there are three phases: Pre-snap stance; Approach & Catch; and Release & Kick.

Pre-snap Stance
Though the formation of the rest of the punting unit may vary depending on the situation, a punterís alignment should stay exactly the same from one punt to the next:
The punter should line up directly behind the long snapper, about 15 yards behind the line of scrimmage, so the ball gets snapped quickly and accurately.
The shoulders should be parallel to the line of scrimmage.
The feet should be about shoulder-width apart, with the non-punting foot approximately six inches in front of the punting foot.
The arms should be up, with hands extended out, ready to catch the ball.
If the punting team is close to its own end zone, obviously the punter wonít line up quite so far back. Common sense may affect how far back the punter lines up, but he should always be in a straight line directly behind the long snapper.

Approach & Catch
The play doesnít actually start until the long snapper snaps the ball. This is also the exact moment when the punter should begin his approach, although sometimes the punter will wait until he actually catches the ball before moving forward, (Sav Rocca does this). This usually only happens if the snap is inaccurate. Here are the steps involved in approaching the ball:

The First Move
Technically, the punterís first step can be a half step, depending on the approach method he uses. However he starts the punting approach, the first full step will be made with the kicking foot. It should be a fairly straight-forward step, although if the punter is trying to direct the kick to a certain spot, the first step may be angled in that direction. Also, the first step should happen about the same time that the punter catches the snap and positions the ball for punting.

The Plant
Hot Tip: Approach Options
Although the approach described here features only two steps, some punters use an approach method that includes a slight half-step of the non-punting foot to speed up the rest of the steps. Though the distance covered and the time it takes to make the approach are the same as the two-step approach, some punters find that the two-and-a-half step approach makes it easier to move fluidly through the approach and make the punt.

The first step builds a bit of momentum and angles the punter in the direction he wants the ball to fly. The second step is to plant the non-kicking foot firmly in the ground, so the punter will have a solid balance base from which to kick.
Ideally, an entire punting sequence should only take about two seconds to complete from snap to kick, and only 0.8 seconds of that time should be spent on the approach. Thatís why itís crucial that a punter begin his approach as the ball is being snapped, instead of waiting until he catches it.

Release & Kick
Now comes the most important part of the whole process: actually punting the ball away. Although the steps leading up to the punt are important--the approach and catch--their value becomes pretty insignificant if nothing comes from it.

Also, it's important to remember the very narrow window of time that the entire punting process should take. If the entire play takes about two seconds from snap to punt, and slightly less than half of that is the time it takes to get the ball to the punter, that leaves barely one full second to position the ball properly and kick it away. Just for a basis of comparison, it takes most people longer to take a normal breath than it does a punter to punt the ball.

Positioning the Ball
As the punter winds up for the kick, the ball should be held about waist-high over the kicking leg. There are a number of different parts involved with successfully readying the ball to be punted:
The ball should be held so the laces are facing up, with the front tip angled slightly down and in towards the punter.
While both hands will actually be touching the ball, only one of them really holds it; the other hand acts as a guide more than anything else.
The arms should be mostly extended; keeping them too close to the body while releasing the ball will result in a high, short punt.
Aside from the approach, how the punter positions the ball just before the punt is a highly subjective habit. The important thing is to perform it in a way that will make it easy to kick the ball well.

One other position of the ball is now the inside the 20 kick in which the punter will actually move the nose of the ball towards the ground and go through his usual kick routine trying to get the ball to go higher instead of farther and actually have the ball bounce up instead of out. Which gives the special teams units more time to get down to the position of the PR and the position of the ball to pin it as close to the goal line as possible.

Making the Punt
This is where the approach and ball positioning become crucial. By the time that plant foot is grounded and the punting foot is coiled back and ready to strike, the ball must be in perfect position for the release.

The Drop
Holding the ball about waist high, it should be dropped just as the kicking foot swings forward and passes the plant foot. This too is pretty subjective, and should be modified according to each personís approach. Ideally, the ball should be kicked at about hip height, not too far from the waist. The drop should not be very far; the greater the distance of the drop, the harder it is to maintain control over where you kick it. While the position is subjective, the most effective way to get the illustrious spiral and farthes kick is to actually hold the ball out in front of you about him high and let it drop, not toss it up. The more level the ball is on the drop, as the leg follows through, the ball with tuck into a nice spiral pattern as it is launched.

The Connection
As the kicking leg swings up, the very top of the kicking footís instep should make contact near the middle of the bottom section of the ball. The trajectory of the punt is directly affected by the spot on the ball where the kicking foot connects with it.

The Follow-through
Once the kicking foot makes contact with the ball, itís crucial that the leg follows through with the kicking motion; if the punt stops immediately as contact is made, the ball wonít go very far at all. The amount of kinetic energy is almost reduced to zero if the follow through is not carried out. And it is really based on the amount of time the foot is connecting on the ball. If the follow through is significant (ala Reggie Roby) the punt will have height added to the equation. Follow through is so important in every aspect of the game. It allows the velocity of the energy about to be released to connect at impact and release off the foot. If there is no follow through the energy that has been stored is lost and the kick becomes weak and doesnt usually travel very far. The kicking leg should swing straight up and through the spot where contact was made with the ball. Itís also common for punters to help continue the momentum of the kick by adding a slight hop at the end of the kick. Though the hop actually comes after the ball is kicked, doing so makes it easier to carry the momentum through the entire kick. Click the image to the left to expand the image, which details the connection and follow-thorugh of a punt.

One part of the follow through that is not mentioned above is to actually keep your head down even after you have kicked the ball. This allows a punter to focus more on the kick and the mechanics of it instead of raising his head to see where the ball goes. Its not his job to "see" where the ball goes, but it is his job to direct the ball with his footwork.

There is a lot more "skill" that goes into the kicking game than just going out there and smacking the ball with your foot.

For FG's there is a lot more specifics as there are other factors that are involved that you cannot control and must trust in order to actually kick a FG with any length and accuracy.

The two most common ways to kick a field goal are the toe poke and soccer style. Toe poking was used by many professional and collegiate place kickers in the past, including Tom Dempsey who is currently tied with Jason Elam (a soccer style kicker) for the record of longest field goal ever made in the NFL. Although over the past few years the soccer style kick has taken over and is now used today by almost every collegiate and professional place kicker.

There are five basic parts to kicking a field goal soccer style. These include setting up the ball, taking your steps back, proper stance, approach steps, and ball contact. To help you learn this style of kicking we have broken down each part for you in the steps below.

Kicking Equipment You Will Need:

Football
1. Setting Up The Football
Position the ball perpendicular to the ground and leaning slightly towards the holder.
Make sure the laces are facing the field goal, this will give you more accuracy by eliminating the variable of hitting the laces when kicking a field goal. It will also allow you to make contact with the seems on the back of the ball and produce maximum compression, resulting in farther, higher, field goals.

This is where your trust of the holder comes into play. As the holder receives the snap, they have to catch the ball, as you start to move forward, place the ball, as you are one step closer, and twist the ball so laces are out as your leg swings through ball and hopefully the uprights.

2. Taking Your Steps Back
These vary for each kicker and may take time to find what works best. The important thing to remember is that they are consistent and you end in the same position from the football every time.
For starters you can use one of the most common combinations, 3 steps back and 2 to the left (or right if you kick left footed).
It will take some trial and error to determine what steps you should take so we encourage you to experiment a little bit. But every kicker in the NFL has their own method on how they set up for their kick. Some take their steps and look at the uprights and actually use their arm to lineup, then take the 2 steps over, turn their hips, do a little shimmy, kick their toe in the ground etc...

3. Proper Stance: Athletic
You want to be in an athletic stance (knees slightly bent, on the balls of your feet, and body weight centered), ready to approach the ball.
Your plant foot (the foot that will be planted next to the ball) should be slightly in front of your kicking foot and pointing to where it will be planted during the kick. Bending the knees and have an evenly centered weight distribution eliminates bad footwork and thus bad kicks. Again each kicker has a different way of getting into their stance.

4. Approach Steps
For a good balance between timing and power take 2-3 approach steps. Reduces the amount of time to the ball and thus reducing the chances of a kick being blocked.
The first step (an optional one), often called the jab step, is a short step toward the football with your non-kicking leg. This short step will help shift your body weight forward. I never had a shortstep per se, it was an extended step in order to get to the ball quickly and get momentum.
The second step, called the drive step, is taken toward the football with your kicking leg and is usually a stride in length.
Your final step will be taken with your plant leg and will anchor you to the ground during the kick.

5. Plant Foot and Ball Contact
Using the right type of plant will allow you to make good contact with the football, a critical part to kicking a good field goal.
When planted your foot will be pointing to the target.
Each kicker in the NFL has a different way to plant their foot in order to get the most momentum going and leg velocity greater to increase the amount of energy needed to kick a FG.

When making contact you want to hit the ďsweet spotĒ of the ball. That spot is located about 4 inches above the tip of the football. Kicking the sweet spot will enable you to get the right balance of distance and height on your field goals. Making contact on the football with the large bone on top of your foot, the 1st metatarsal, is critical for producing maximum transfer of energy to the ball. Contacting the football with your toes or ankle will decrease accuracy and distance when kicking a field goal.

6. Follow Through.
Again this is the most important part of the kicking game. Follow through carries the energy through the ball from the kickers foot, and will give the ball height from the initial spot.

Kickers get really premadonna about their game because jobs are lost by them not succeeding more than 90% of the time. It is one of the hardest things to do in sports, like hitting a 100 mph fastball, but it is expected that a kicker be close to perfect if not near perfect with the amount of time they have to work on the only aspect of their football career. They dont have reads, audibles, extensive playcalls etc. Its really snap, hold, and kick. With practice that becomes more routine, but I think that FG kickers make it to be more intense than it really is. THe biggest part is actually the holders position because if they dont handle the snap, spin the laces out, or have the ball in the "right" spot, the kicker is eventually to blame, but the holder has more the responsibility.

Kickers tend to have a lot of pre snap rituals they go through to help their confidence. For some it works, for others it doesnt. I never used to think that way when playing and having to kick anything. Just go and kick the damn ball.

But after reading a few things about it, I came to realize that there is more of an art form than I thought to believe than just kicking a ball through the uprights.
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good writeup Mike on the kicking aspect of the game. This is why I say that kicking a FG is the 2nd hardest thing to accomplish in sports (hitting a baseball is 1rst - I can give you the physiological reason why).

You've laid down the mechanics of what the kicker needs to do. But you also must include what happens to the ball AFTER the ball leaves the kicker's foot.

[Footy29 please chime in here as I know you are a kicker and can testify to what I'm saying.]

If you look at the ball it is oblong with two points. There are two axes (pronounced AX-EES) running through the ball.

The first axis runs the length of the ball from point to point.

The second axis runs from the laces, through the middle of the ball to the opposite side of the laces.

When a football player makes a good catch and spins the ball, it is primarily spinning along the first axis like a top on a table.

When an onsides kick happens you see the ball tumble along the ground end over end. This is where it is spinning along the 2nd axis.

With me so far?

Now...when a placekicker attempts to kick it between the uprights, the ball spins on BOTH axes at the same time after it leaves the foot. This is why you see lengthier kicks have a curve to them. It is because the ball is spinning on both axes. It is an artform to be able to place your foot and kick in such a way as to cause the ball to spin faster on one axis than it does on the other (causing less curve or more curve depending upon what you're trying to do).

This is also why when a kicker "has the yips" (like the guy we just cut) you either have to ride it out or get rid of him (which we thankfully did). Very small changes in your approach and your follow through can totally screw up your kicks.

And this is not even taking account the air moisture (which provides friction and resistance), elevation (like at Mile High stadium), wind direction, wind speed, etc... that are external factors that can affect kicks.

Its alot harder to be a pro kicker than it looks like fellas!
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