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Are there any MVP choices you disagreed with?
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Fired-Up


Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jb_gobills wrote:
Fired-Up wrote:
It's a QB league. If you want to win the NFL MVP as a RB prepare to have 1800+ rushing yards or close to 2500 YFS. And 20+ TD's is pretty much a needed total. Oh and you better lock up that #1 seed. It's a QB league. You better have a damn fine year as a RB to win that award.


What does it take for a linebacker to win the award? A cornerback? An offensive linemen? It wasn't a QB league in the 60s, 70s and 80s. It was a running back league. It was a defensive league. Yet quarterbacks still won the award more often than anyone else. How do you explain that?


It's always been a QB league. Passer rating differential is the number #1 stat in football and has been since the 40's. Pass well. Stop the pass. Win the super bowl.
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jb_gobills


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fired-Up wrote:
It's always been a QB league. Passer rating differential is the number #1 stat in football and has been since the 40's. Pass well. Stop the pass. Win the super bowl.


False.
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Fired-Up


Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jb_gobills wrote:
Fired-Up wrote:
It's always been a QB league. Passer rating differential is the number #1 stat in football and has been since the 40's. Pass well. Stop the pass. Win the super bowl.


False.


Not false. Pass efficiency has stood the test of time. Going all the way back to the 40's.
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jb_gobills


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For one, the NFL has only been a passing league for the last 15 years. Secondly, it does not matter whether it's a passing league or not. Quarterbacks are not the be-all end-all. Otherwise Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypein, Terry Bradshaw, Jim McMahon, Doug Williams, and Joe Namath wouldn't have won Super Bowls. Football is a team sport.
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clear.


Joined: 02 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBIB wrote:
clear. wrote:
With the favoring the QB so much now, I wonder if they will create an award just for the QB.... like they do with pitchers in the MLB.


I used to think the Heisman was the most biased award in favor of QBs, but when you look at it NFL MVP is far worse.

A running back basically has to have a historic season to win the award.

Again Michael Turner's basically 1700 yards rushing to go along with 17 TDs on a team that went from worst to first, should have been more than legit enough to win the award factoring in individual and team accomplishments.

But he received a whopping ONE vote. The most sickening thing about that voting was how lopsided it was in favor of Manning showing how much groupthink there is in addition to QB bias


I don't think its biased, I think (at least top) QBs actually are the most valuable players. Which is why I think they should consider changing it.

As for the example, maybe Turner deserved more votes (4). But your criteria seems unfair to the other players up for the award for consistently having success with the teams they with the year before. That's not fair.

I've always liked the how did the rest of my team perform, how were the individual stats and where did the team finish criteria to winning an MVP.
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clear.


Joined: 02 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jb_gobills wrote:
Fired-Up wrote:
It's a QB league. If you want to win the NFL MVP as a RB prepare to have 1800+ rushing yards or close to 2500 YFS. And 20+ TD's is pretty much a needed total. Oh and you better lock up that #1 seed. It's a QB league. You better have a damn fine year as a RB to win that award.


What does it take for a linebacker to win the award? A cornerback? An offensive linemen? It wasn't a QB league in the 60s, 70s and 80s. It was a running back league. It was a defensive league. Yet quarterbacks still won the award more often than anyone else. How do you explain that?


Because out of all the positions on the field the QB is less reliant on others to look good.

Defense is usually a team performance, when Taylor won it.... it was looked at as if he was the defense.

When Barry won the MVP it was looked at as if he was the offense.
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FirstDownFaulk


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jb_gobills wrote:
For one, the NFL has only been a passing league for the last 15 years. Secondly, it does not matter whether it's a passing league or not. Quarterbacks are not the be-all end-all. Otherwise Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypein, Terry Bradshaw, Jim McMahon, Doug Williams, and Joe Namath wouldn't have won Super Bowls. Football is a team sport.

You just named the only Super Bowl winning quarterbacks that aren't considered "great", and two of them are Hall of Famers (Bradshaw, Namath). Dilfer, Johnson, McMahon, Hostetler won with historically great defenses. Rypien and Williams won with a good/great ground game and good defense.

Football is a team sport, there's no question....but it's a quarterbacks league. No other position directly affects the result of the game with his play, more than the quarterback. For every interception he throws in the playoffs, he decreases his teams chances of winning by nearly 25%.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/the-almighty-chff-interception-ladder/7737/

This is why quarterbacks receive all the glory (and most of the blame) in January.
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Aout


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

09 Manning
11 Rodgers.

Unfortunately Brees plays for the Saints. If he was playing for a more popular franchise (i.e. Boys, Packers, Patriots, Colts, Steelers, etc...), he would have won the MVP race a long time ago.
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clear.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aout wrote:
09 Manning
11 Rodgers.

Unfortunately Brees plays for the Saints. If he was playing for a more popular franchise (i.e. Boys, Packers, Patriots, Colts, Steelers, etc...), he would have won the MVP race a long time ago.


Brees comes up short because he allows his teams to lose to the Rams, Bucs or Panthers... while Rodgers and Manning don't allow there teams to take losses like that. When you want to win MVP, stats is part of the criteria. If another is putting up just as great and has lead his team to an undefeated or nearly undefeated record it going to the latter.
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Aout


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got your points, but if you compare Brees and Rodgers last season you will see that :

1. Rodgers has a better receiving corps
2. Rodgers had a defense with 31 interceptions or so, when the Saints D had 9 int. That's a couple of more occasions to make your offense shine. Brees had a defense which was as mediocre as the Packers one, the only difference is that Brees defense didn't intercept anything.
3. Brees set a couple of NFL records, when Rodgers only set one (qbr). The 2011 Saints were the strongest offense in the history of the NFL.


I mean Rodgers getting the MVP isnt something undeserved cause obviously he's a great QB. It's just that EVERYONE forgot what Drew did over the last season, way before the Giants game. But nobody talked about him until that MNF game against the Giants. And if it wasn't for the Giants and the MNF, the medias would have probably continued to ignore him.

I don't know if you have watched many Saints game last season, but if you had, you know what I mean.

edit : oh and i forgot that many "nfl analysts" said that the MVP race was between Brady & Rodgers. It tells you how much Drew is one of these guys that will probably never ever get his chances, because he doesn't play for a big name franchise everyone speaks about.
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smetana34


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aout wrote:
I got your points, but if you compare Brees and Rodgers last season you will see that :

1. Rodgers has a better receiving corps
2. Rodgers had a defense with 31 interceptions or so, when the Saints D had 9 int. That's a couple of more occasions to make your offense shine. Brees had a defense which was as mediocre as the Packers one, the only difference is that Brees defense didn't intercept anything.
3. Brees set a couple of NFL records, when Rodgers only set one (qbr). The 2011 Saints were the strongest offense in the history of the NFL.


I mean Rodgers getting the MVP isnt something undeserved cause obviously he's a great QB. It's just that EVERYONE forgot what Drew did over the last season, way before the Giants game. But nobody talked about him until that MNF game against the Giants. And if it wasn't for the Giants and the MNF, the medias would have probably continued to ignore him.

I don't know if you have watched many Saints game last season, but if you had, you know what I mean.

edit : oh and i forgot that many "nfl analysts" said that the MVP race was between Brady & Rodgers. It tells you how much Drew is one of these guys that will probably never ever get his chances, because he doesn't play for a big name franchise everyone speaks about.


Did you mention that part where Brees had 188 more attempts than Rodgers? And that he would've destroyed any records Brees posted had he had them?
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Fired-Up


Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aout wrote:
I got your points, but if you compare Brees and Rodgers last season you will see that :

1. Rodgers has a better receiving corps
2. Rodgers had a defense with 31 interceptions or so, when the Saints D had 9 int. That's a couple of more occasions to make your offense shine. Brees had a defense which was as mediocre as the Packers one, the only difference is that Brees defense didn't intercept anything.
3. Brees set a couple of NFL records, when Rodgers only set one (qbr). The 2011 Saints were the strongest offense in the history of the NFL.


I mean Rodgers getting the MVP isnt something undeserved cause obviously he's a great QB. It's just that EVERYONE forgot what Drew did over the last season, way before the Giants game. But nobody talked about him until that MNF game against the Giants. And if it wasn't for the Giants and the MNF, the medias would have probably continued to ignore him.

I don't know if you have watched many Saints game last season, but if you had, you know what I mean.

edit : oh and i forgot that many "nfl analysts" said that the MVP race was between Brady & Rodgers. It tells you how much Drew is one of these guys that will probably never ever get his chances, because he doesn't play for a big name franchise everyone speaks about.


You know why it's always "Rodgers and Brady"? It's because they are better than Brees. They post higher YPA and they aren't going to throw 22 picks. My GOD 22 picks.
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Aout


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

smetana34 wrote:
Aout wrote:
I got your points, but if you compare Brees and Rodgers last season you will see that :

1. Rodgers has a better receiving corps
2. Rodgers had a defense with 31 interceptions or so, when the Saints D had 9 int. That's a couple of more occasions to make your offense shine. Brees had a defense which was as mediocre as the Packers one, the only difference is that Brees defense didn't intercept anything.
3. Brees set a couple of NFL records, when Rodgers only set one (qbr). The 2011 Saints were the strongest offense in the history of the NFL.


I mean Rodgers getting the MVP isnt something undeserved cause obviously he's a great QB. It's just that EVERYONE forgot what Drew did over the last season, way before the Giants game. But nobody talked about him until that MNF game against the Giants. And if it wasn't for the Giants and the MNF, the medias would have probably continued to ignore him.

I don't know if you have watched many Saints game last season, but if you had, you know what I mean.

edit : oh and i forgot that many "nfl analysts" said that the MVP race was between Brady & Rodgers. It tells you how much Drew is one of these guys that will probably never ever get his chances, because he doesn't play for a big name franchise everyone speaks about.


Did you mention that part where Brees had 188 more attempts than Rodgers? And that he would've destroyed any records Brees posted had he had them?


No but, there's a bunch of other things I didn't mention either.
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Aout


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fired-Up wrote:
Aout wrote:
I got your points, but if you compare Brees and Rodgers last season you will see that :

1. Rodgers has a better receiving corps
2. Rodgers had a defense with 31 interceptions or so, when the Saints D had 9 int. That's a couple of more occasions to make your offense shine. Brees had a defense which was as mediocre as the Packers one, the only difference is that Brees defense didn't intercept anything.
3. Brees set a couple of NFL records, when Rodgers only set one (qbr). The 2011 Saints were the strongest offense in the history of the NFL.


I mean Rodgers getting the MVP isnt something undeserved cause obviously he's a great QB. It's just that EVERYONE forgot what Drew did over the last season, way before the Giants game. But nobody talked about him until that MNF game against the Giants. And if it wasn't for the Giants and the MNF, the medias would have probably continued to ignore him.

I don't know if you have watched many Saints game last season, but if you had, you know what I mean.

edit : oh and i forgot that many "nfl analysts" said that the MVP race was between Brady & Rodgers. It tells you how much Drew is one of these guys that will probably never ever get his chances, because he doesn't play for a big name franchise everyone speaks about.


You know why it's always "Rodgers and Brady"? It's because they are better than Brees. They post higher YPA and they aren't going to throw 22 picks. My GOD 22 picks.


I'm sure they are from a Patriots/Packers point of view.
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clear.


Joined: 02 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aout wrote:
I got your points, but if you compare Brees and Rodgers last season you will see that :

1. Rodgers has a better receiving corps
2. Rodgers had a defense with 31 interceptions or so, when the Saints D had 9 int. That's a couple of more occasions to make your offense shine. Brees had a defense which was as mediocre as the Packers one, the only difference is that Brees defense didn't intercept anything.
3. Brees set a couple of NFL records, when Rodgers only set one (qbr). The 2011 Saints were the strongest offense in the history of the NFL.


I mean Rodgers getting the MVP isnt something undeserved cause obviously he's a great QB. It's just that EVERYONE forgot what Drew did over the last season, way before the Giants game. But nobody talked about him until that MNF game against the Giants. And if it wasn't for the Giants and the MNF, the medias would have probably continued to ignore him.

I don't know if you have watched many Saints game last season, but if you had, you know what I mean.

edit : oh and i forgot that many "nfl analysts" said that the MVP race was between Brady & Rodgers. It tells you how much Drew is one of these guys that will probably never ever get his chances, because he doesn't play for a big name franchise everyone speaks about.


Rodgers receiving corps are good but people make too much out of it. A great QB is going to make receivers look better than what they appear to be. Its not like he had Fitz, Megatron, AJ, Bowe, AJ Green, Marshall type receivers.

Green Bay might have the names and the stats, but so do the Saints... in fact I'd argue that Brees offensive weapons are better. A dual threat RB, and a freakishly tall TE who is a nightmare matchup for the opposing team. Along with a running game that was statistically top 10 in the NFL

Another thing that you missed on is despite Brees throwing more Green Bay receivers had more drops.

I think there is a great case for GB having the better defense although they still weren't world beaters but I think I made a case for NO having a better offense than GB.
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