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Whose The Most Important Positional Coach?
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CWood21


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:24 pm    Post subject: Whose The Most Important Positional Coach? Reply with quote

Pretty simple question I'm asking, but it's got a bit more behind it.


Excluding the head coach, coordinators, and QB coach, which coach would see his units production drop the most? Which unit would feel the biggest drop off in production if they were subbed out with an average coach?


I'll say Darren Perry. He's been our safeties coach ever since he joined back in 2009. And during that time period, the Packers have been in the top two of interceptions since he's been coaching our secondaries. He was a big reason why Nick Collins became a top five safety until he hurt his neck, and really started to help develop Morgan Burnett. Hell, he even made Charlie Peprah and Marquand Manuel look like serviceable safeties for a while. All this has led to talks about him getting promoted to defensive coordinator for some team.

So whose the most important positional coach for the Packers, sans Bob McAdoo?
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CentralFC


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who's the most important or the best position coach? That's an interesting question.

I'll take Kevin Greene for both right now. Clay's development was due in large part to him and Perry's will be as well. We haven't had a ton of talent at that position and he's made it somewhat serviceable.
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palmy50


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralFC wrote:
Who's the most important or the best position coach? That's an interesting question.

I'll take Kevin Greene for both right now. Clay's development was due in large part to him and Perry's will be as well. We haven't had a ton of talent at that position and he's made it somewhat serviceable.


I'm with CWood on this one. But must say, the work Greene has done with Perry this far is nothing short of amazing. Kid looks good!
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packfan4


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
CentralFC wrote:
Who's the most important or the best position coach? That's an interesting question.

I'll take Kevin Greene for both right now. Clay's development was due in large part to him and Perry's will be as well. We haven't had a ton of talent at that position and he's made it somewhat serviceable.


I'm with CWood on this one. But must say, the work Greene has done with Perry this far is nothing short of amazing. Kid looks good!

Agreed, Perry looks fricken awesome so far. He shows up on damn near every rush, bright future for my man.
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TheGreatZepp


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most important? I will go with Offensive Line on this one. All five have to be in sync, really isn't any freelancing on the line and they face a multitude of looks and fronts from week to week. Once they get in sync they can make it look easy but it's a lot of work getting there. He's helped bring out the best in Bulaga, Sitton and Lang, he helped Scott Wells max out his potential and in doing so his contract and is making Newhouse into great #3, have high hopes on Sherrod because of this as well. I think a few others would have risen as well had there been room on the roster to develop. When you consider a tight end a half lineman, half receiver, this one unit makes up half of the entire offense.

Best? Darren Perry his credentials are greater having helped develop Chris Hope and Polamalu before coming to Green Bay. Greene is definitely one to keep an eye on, with Matthews hopefully Perry and maybe Moses. I don't know if he's done wonders for the low ceiling/big project guys so far (Zombo, Jones, So'oto, Walden) though.
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CWood21


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralFC wrote:
Who's the most important or the best position coach? That's an interesting question.

I'll take Kevin Greene for both right now. Clay's development was due in large part to him and Perry's will be as well. We haven't had a ton of talent at that position and he's made it somewhat serviceable.


Very interesting. But at what point does it become more about the coach than it does about what kind of pick was invested in that position? The Packers have invested two first round picks into their OLB position with Clay Matthews (in 2009) and Nick Perry (this past draft). Since Ted Thompson has taken over, Ted has only used three Day 2 picks on safeties (Nick Collins, Morgan Burnett, and Aaron Rouse). None of his picks on Day 1 were used on safeties. Personally, I feel like Perry has worked with less. Although I think finding really good defensive backs is a bit tougher. Sure, Greene made Erik Walden, Frank Zombo, and Brad Jones look serviceable at a certain point, but so as Perry with guys like Manuel, Peprah, and now Jennings.
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palmy50


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CWood21 wrote:
CentralFC wrote:
Who's the most important or the best position coach? That's an interesting question.

I'll take Kevin Greene for both right now. Clay's development was due in large part to him and Perry's will be as well. We haven't had a ton of talent at that position and he's made it somewhat serviceable.


Very interesting. But at what point does it become more about the coach than it does about what kind of pick was invested in that position? The Packers have invested two first round picks into their OLB position with Clay Matthews (in 2009) and Nick Perry (this past draft). Since Ted Thompson has taken over, Ted has only used three Day 2 picks on safeties (Nick Collins, Morgan Burnett, and Aaron Rouse). None of his picks on Day 1 were used on safeties. Personally, I feel like Perry has worked with less. Although I think finding really good defensive backs is a bit tougher. Sure, Greene made Erik Walden, Frank Zombo, and Brad Jones look serviceable at a certain point, but so as Perry with guys like Manuel, Peprah, and now Jennings.


I'm with ya on the Perry thing(great coach). Not real sure I feel ya on your POV here though. TT clearly holds the premiums in high regard in the first few rounds. In that, most would hold that premium a good bit higher on the pass rusher. That's not to say one was a better prospect at position on draft day. I had a higher grade on Burnett than I did Perry but clearly new Perry would go higher on draft day.

Then you add in Collins. This was the first draft TT did not have Collins back there and it was a weak class. Still, a guy like Collins can make a ton of pain go away on the backend regardless of the talent next to him. Makes life much easier on the staff at hand also.

Just sayin. The picks invested should be anything but the selling point in a conversation like that.
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Dunderhead


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone been watching Walden lately? The guy seems like a really good back-up situational guy. And Moses has flashed a little too. Kevin Green made Walden serviceable enough to win a SB. Yeah, last year was disappointing, but I don't think Walden was ever pegged as an every down guy - that was injuries that forced that card. And Walden hadn't had a training camp and was hurt by it as much as Shields. I really like what Kevin Green has done there with what he's been given.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Edgar Bennett. For years he had nothing at RB and yet help to make the likes of Samkon Gado, Ryan Grant, Brandon Jackson, and James Starks respectable. And as much as people hate on the D and blame them for the loss to the Giants - I could make more of an argument that RBs fumbling the ball had more to do with that loss.

Coincidentally, that was the first year Bennett went to Wr coach. But look at last years Wr production. Phenomenal! Jordy Nelson starts to live up to his talent for the full season. James Jones' career numbers. If not for injuries - Jennings would have had a phenom year.

I know that the question refers to what position would fall of the map, but for my money what Bennett has done is nothing short of remarkable.
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ChaRisMa


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most important at the moment? Trgovac. This season hinges on the pass rush from the front three.

Both lines really, need to get better. For as much "it starts in the trenches" as we've been fed lately, neither unit is getting the job done.
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xDD80x


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
CWood21 wrote:
CentralFC wrote:
Who's the most important or the best position coach? That's an interesting question.

I'll take Kevin Greene for both right now. Clay's development was due in large part to him and Perry's will be as well. We haven't had a ton of talent at that position and he's made it somewhat serviceable.


Very interesting. But at what point does it become more about the coach than it does about what kind of pick was invested in that position? The Packers have invested two first round picks into their OLB position with Clay Matthews (in 2009) and Nick Perry (this past draft). Since Ted Thompson has taken over, Ted has only used three Day 2 picks on safeties (Nick Collins, Morgan Burnett, and Aaron Rouse). None of his picks on Day 1 were used on safeties. Personally, I feel like Perry has worked with less. Although I think finding really good defensive backs is a bit tougher. Sure, Greene made Erik Walden, Frank Zombo, and Brad Jones look serviceable at a certain point, but so as Perry with guys like Manuel, Peprah, and now Jennings.


I'm with ya on the Perry thing(great coach). Not real sure I feel ya on your POV here though. TT clearly holds the premiums in high regard in the first few rounds. In that, most would hold that premium a good bit higher on the pass rusher. That's not to say one was a better prospect at position on draft day. I had a higher grade on Burnett than I did Perry but clearly new Perry would go higher on draft day.

Then you add in Collins. This was the first draft TT did not have Collins back there and it was a weak class. Still, a guy like Collins can make a ton of pain go away on the backend regardless of the talent next to him. Makes life much easier on the staff at hand also.

Just sayin. The picks invested should be anything but the selling point in a conversation like that.


History suggests DBs take longer to develop than front seven guys. Generally, DBs take longer than WRs, whom everyone seems to accepts as "wait till year 3" guys.
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cpnesdude41


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I honestly couldnt tell u whom our receiving coach is w/o a quick google search but logically he has to atleast be an honorable mention. Aaron Rodgers is the man in our offense, but these receivers r the third leg of the tripod. WRs, TEs, and RBs, need work/drills with receiving and whomever this might be has only help rodgers become the best by teaching our boys how to get it done. Aside from our troubles with drops we very well have the most/best receiving options/weapons in the game, no doubt due to talent but also the man in charge of progressing their skills. Perry and Greene are two coaches easy to pick, but I logically have to say our receiving coach. We dont have a single 1st rounder, aside from the man throwing the rock, and we produce one of the best passing offenses year in and year out. Props to this man and the job his done moving our talent along and helping us be a stellar passing attack the past few years and producing to two top-tier receivers on the same team.
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EB29


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChaRisMa wrote:
Most important at the moment? Trgovac. This season hinges on the pass rush from the front three.

Both lines really, need to get better. For as much "it starts in the trenches" as we've been fed lately, neither unit is getting the job done.


Agree here. Most important to this teams success is getting interior press. We know what CM3 will bring and hopefully Perry brings a little rush too. That leaves Dline to help to pressure off the secondary.
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jake1962


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CWood21 wrote:
CentralFC wrote:
Who's the most important or the best position coach? That's an interesting question.

I'll take Kevin Greene for both right now. Clay's development was due in large part to him and Perry's will be as well. We haven't had a ton of talent at that position and he's made it somewhat serviceable.


Very interesting. But at what point does it become more about the coach than it does about what kind of pick was invested in that position? The Packers have invested two first round picks into their OLB position with Clay Matthews (in 2009) and Nick Perry (this past draft). Since Ted Thompson has taken over, Ted has only used three Day 2 picks on safeties (Nick Collins, Morgan Burnett, and Aaron Rouse). None of his picks on Day 1 were used on safeties. Personally, I feel like Perry has worked with less. Although I think finding really good defensive backs is a bit tougher. Sure, Greene made Erik Walden, Frank Zombo, and Brad Jones look serviceable at a certain point, but so as Perry with guys like Manuel, Peprah, and now Jennings.



Collins was a day one pick.
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Ketchup


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jake1962 wrote:
CWood21 wrote:
CentralFC wrote:
Who's the most important or the best position coach? That's an interesting question.

I'll take Kevin Greene for both right now. Clay's development was due in large part to him and Perry's will be as well. We haven't had a ton of talent at that position and he's made it somewhat serviceable.


Very interesting. But at what point does it become more about the coach than it does about what kind of pick was invested in that position? The Packers have invested two first round picks into their OLB position with Clay Matthews (in 2009) and Nick Perry (this past draft). Since Ted Thompson has taken over, Ted has only used three Day 2 picks on safeties (Nick Collins, Morgan Burnett, and Aaron Rouse). None of his picks on Day 1 were used on safeties. Personally, I feel like Perry has worked with less. Although I think finding really good defensive backs is a bit tougher. Sure, Greene made Erik Walden, Frank Zombo, and Brad Jones look serviceable at a certain point, but so as Perry with guys like Manuel, Peprah, and now Jennings.



Collins was a day one pick.
Collins was a day one pick back when the first 3 rounds were on day one. Using todays format, Collins was a day two pick, not day one.

Either way, people should just say what round the guy was picked in to erase confusion.
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CWood21


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jake1962 wrote:
Collins was a day one pick.


I'm speaking in terms of the current format, I should have stated that no safeties were picked in the first as opposed to the two rush linebackers that were taken in the first.
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