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Dolphins trade CB Vontae Davis to Colts for a 2nd round pick
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Blagasse67


Joined: 04 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deadeye wrote:
Blagasse67 wrote:
Ireland has a damned if you do damned if you don't attitude from the fans. if he doesn't make moves, we whine and say this guy doesn't have the guts to make a move. He does make a move and he is shallow for trading that guy and dumb.
Maybe that's true in general, but I don't complain about a "lack" of FO moves. I complain about the moves themselves. Obviously a team cannot be rebuilt over night, and I tend to get upset more at the "short cut" moves, like trading picks for other team's garbage, signing big cost free agents, and so forth.


Randy Moss move was horrible for the Pats huh? We as fans see the team as far away from winning but yet the 49ers were far away as well remember?

I don't think we are that far away. I think we are a pass rusher, and wr away from competing.
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FinsWin


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blagasse67 wrote:
Deadeye wrote:
Blagasse67 wrote:
Ireland has a damned if you do damned if you don't attitude from the fans. if he doesn't make moves, we whine and say this guy doesn't have the guts to make a move. He does make a move and he is shallow for trading that guy and dumb.
Maybe that's true in general, but I don't complain about a "lack" of FO moves. I complain about the moves themselves. Obviously a team cannot be rebuilt over night, and I tend to get upset more at the "short cut" moves, like trading picks for other team's garbage, signing big cost free agents, and so forth.


Randy Moss move was horrible for the Pats huh? We as fans see the team as far away from winning but yet the 49ers were far away as well remember?

I don't think we are that far away. I think we are a pass rusher, and wr away from competing.


Not with that right side of the line that we have. It's in shambles.
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ovaw8lover


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
Judson49 wrote:


Ova's reference to Coughlin is accurate. You can be the most cantankerous curmudgeon in the building, and seemingly disliked by all (even your Son-In-Law....probably), but winning will cure an awful lot of that. Heck, if Daniel Thomas is racking up 1,500 yards and Clyde Gates is hauling in 15 TD's on the way to the Playoffs, I'll be suckling at Ireland's teat myself.


If you all have followed the Coughlin story you all know that Coughlin has worked EXTREMELY hard on his people skills. He's acknowledged publicly that his people skills kept him and his team from reaching their full potential and even most recently, in this years training camp, he is on NFL network at an all team meeting and he tells his entire team he "loves" them. He goes on to say that connecting with his players is an essential part of his job.

People skills matter. Anyone who has ever managed anyone should know this. In fact its common sense. You get more from people when they are managed well. Managers with no respect often get crappy results.

Coughlin found this out, and changed his ways. He is the perfect example.


Coughlin changed his people skills as his team matured. Philbin does not have a mature team. When you have a immature team you have to do things more stringently. And lets be honest here, Philbin is no Coughlin. No one is complaining about his report time rules. They are complaining about him cutting players. Quite different.

Lets also know this, Coughlin had a QB. At this point, we do not know if Miami has one. Whenever people criticize Philbin all I hear is blah, blah, blah because if he has a QB it is a moot point. If Jeff Ireland drafts a QB all his sins will be forgiven.

But I will admit that Miami has no up and coming talent. In San Diego, you saw Vincent Jackson getting better every year. I take that back, Bess has gotten better but outside of that no one else. Maybe I am just a realist. I know Miami will suck this year and am willing to accept it. I just hope if they are bad, they are the worst.
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Blagasse67


Joined: 04 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FinsWin wrote:
Blagasse67 wrote:
Deadeye wrote:
Blagasse67 wrote:
Ireland has a damned if you do damned if you don't attitude from the fans. if he doesn't make moves, we whine and say this guy doesn't have the guts to make a move. He does make a move and he is shallow for trading that guy and dumb.
Maybe that's true in general, but I don't complain about a "lack" of FO moves. I complain about the moves themselves. Obviously a team cannot be rebuilt over night, and I tend to get upset more at the "short cut" moves, like trading picks for other team's garbage, signing big cost free agents, and so forth.


Randy Moss move was horrible for the Pats huh? We as fans see the team as far away from winning but yet the 49ers were far away as well remember?

I don't think we are that far away. I think we are a pass rusher, and wr away from competing.


Not with that right side of the line that we have. It's in shambles.


That is true. If Roethlisberger can manage behind his OL, i think we could manage with ours.
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ovaw8lover wrote:
Mercury22 wrote:
Judson49 wrote:


Ova's reference to Coughlin is accurate. You can be the most cantankerous curmudgeon in the building, and seemingly disliked by all (even your Son-In-Law....probably), but winning will cure an awful lot of that. Heck, if Daniel Thomas is racking up 1,500 yards and Clyde Gates is hauling in 15 TD's on the way to the Playoffs, I'll be suckling at Ireland's teat myself.


If you all have followed the Coughlin story you all know that Coughlin has worked EXTREMELY hard on his people skills. He's acknowledged publicly that his people skills kept him and his team from reaching their full potential and even most recently, in this years training camp, he is on NFL network at an all team meeting and he tells his entire team he "loves" them. He goes on to say that connecting with his players is an essential part of his job.

People skills matter. Anyone who has ever managed anyone should know this. In fact its common sense. You get more from people when they are managed well. Managers with no respect often get crappy results.

Coughlin found this out, and changed his ways. He is the perfect example.


Coughlin changed his people skills as his team matured. Philbin does not have a mature team. When you have a immature team you have to do things more stringently. And lets be honest here, Philbin is no Coughlin. No one is complaining about his report time rules. They are complaining about him cutting players. Quite different.

Lets also know this, Coughlin had a QB. At this point, we do not know if Miami has one. Whenever people criticize Philbin all I hear is blah, blah, blah because if he has a QB it is a moot point. If Jeff Ireland drafts a QB all his sins will be forgiven.

But I will admit that Miami has no up and coming talent. In San Diego, you saw Vincent Jackson getting better every year. I take that back, Bess has gotten better but outside of that no one else. Maybe I am just a realist. I know Miami will suck this year and am willing to accept it. I just hope if they are bad, they are the worst.


Coughlin changed/worked on his people skills because he almost lost his job and the players nearly revolted on him. He realized, exactly what I am saying, that players are people and not strictly commodities. He realized that he could get more out of his team if could earn the players respect.

Yes, a QB goes a long way to turning things around for the franchise and for the HC and GM. However, I still assert that knowing how to work with people is an enormous piece of the puzzle and it makes the journey to respectability in the league a shorter one. You say you've only seen one Hard Knocks episode, and so I guess when I hear you say Philbin's lack of people skills is not an issue, all I hear is blah, blah, blah, myself. I'm not alone in my assertion that this is an issue. Jim Rome discussed it recently, NFL Network talking heads have talked about it and this morning on the way to work it was the topic of discussion on the local sports station. The issue is glaring if you've seen the show.

At the same time, in Philbin's defense, I think he has a vision, I think he is a smart dude, and I love that work ethic is being stressed as essential to team building. The jury is very much out on Philbin, but if you've seen the show, anyone should be able to quickly tell that one on one, Philbin lacks some clear leadership qualities.
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Deadeye


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blagasse67 wrote:
Deadeye wrote:
Blagasse67 wrote:
Ireland has a damned if you do damned if you don't attitude from the fans. if he doesn't make moves, we whine and say this guy doesn't have the guts to make a move. He does make a move and he is shallow for trading that guy and dumb.
Maybe that's true in general, but I don't complain about a "lack" of FO moves. I complain about the moves themselves. Obviously a team cannot be rebuilt over night, and I tend to get upset more at the "short cut" moves, like trading picks for other team's garbage, signing big cost free agents, and so forth.


Randy Moss move was horrible for the Pats huh? We as fans see the team as far away from winning but yet the 49ers were far away as well remember?

I don't think we are that far away. I think we are a pass rusher, and wr away from competing.
New England was not rebuilding, they were adding a final piece to a team with Super Bowl aspirations.

Comparing the 2012 Miami Dolphins to the 2007 New England Patriots is nonsensical.
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Blagasse67


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deadeye wrote:
Blagasse67 wrote:
Deadeye wrote:
Blagasse67 wrote:
Ireland has a damned if you do damned if you don't attitude from the fans. if he doesn't make moves, we whine and say this guy doesn't have the guts to make a move. He does make a move and he is shallow for trading that guy and dumb.
Maybe that's true in general, but I don't complain about a "lack" of FO moves. I complain about the moves themselves. Obviously a team cannot be rebuilt over night, and I tend to get upset more at the "short cut" moves, like trading picks for other team's garbage, signing big cost free agents, and so forth.


Randy Moss move was horrible for the Pats huh? We as fans see the team as far away from winning but yet the 49ers were far away as well remember?

I don't think we are that far away. I think we are a pass rusher, and wr away from competing.
New England was not rebuilding, they were adding a final piece to a team with Super Bowl aspirations.

Comparing the 2012 Miami Dolphins to the 2007 New England Patriots is nonsensical.


The point of it is, not all trades are bad. So can you guarantee that MIami will hit on every single draft pick? Trading for a playmaker or two and still having all of our draft picks is not such a bad thing guys.

Still don't think we are that far. Pass Rusher and WR/TE. I'll agree with Finswin, that RT side of the OL needs help but a WR that can actually get open, and Ryan's ability could help the OL at the same time.
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fishfan4life


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the fact that there are some people in this forum who consider Martin and Egnew bad picks and bust before they have played one regular season game let alone one full season is very lame in my book. Just know jermicheal finley had 6 catches his rookie year. Stop with that just stop.
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fishfan4life wrote:
I think the fact that there are some people in this forum who consider Martin and Egnew bad picks and bust before they have played one regular season game let alone one full season is very lame in my book. Just know jermicheal finley had 6 catches his rookie year. Stop with that just stop.


I don't think anyone is saying bust. If they are, I agree to early. However, Martin was brought in to start. Ireland counted on him starting when he was drafted. I think that was a bad idea. Counting on a rookie who lacked strength and had some questionable footwork is not a great idea. So while they are not busts by any means, thrusting them into a starting role because we took no precautions to prevent that is an issue that seems fair to raise from where I sit.
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fishfan4life


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree them banking on martin to start from day 1 was and is not ideal he needs wieght room work. The egnew thing really bnothers me TE can be slow starters. Living in the bay vernonn was considered a bust early here now look at him and finley had 6 catches. I think we are a little quick considering he has yet to play a regular season game
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PhinFan52


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony7188 wrote:
Tetsuya_Ryuji wrote:
Tony7188 wrote:
Was Davis still the #1 CB on your depth chart? I think getting a 2nd round pick from the Colts is pretty good. The Dolphins now have ammo to trade back up into the 1st if a player they particularly like falls

He was actually 3rd on the depth chart.


You guys don't like getting a 2nd round pick for a #3 CB?


he was #3 preseason.. he was #1 last season.. had 4 ints.. good tackler.
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Miami2DaMax


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fishfan4life wrote:
I agree them banking on martin to start from day 1 was and is not ideal he needs wieght room work. The egnew thing really bnothers me TE can be slow starters. Living in the bay vernonn was considered a bust early here now look at him and finley had 6 catches. I think we are a little quick considering he has yet to play a regular season game


Vernon is probably my highest rated Rookie other ( since the day he was drafted ) than Tanne.
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phinmun


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
Coughlin changed/worked on his people skills because he almost lost his job and the players nearly revolted on him. He realized, exactly what I am saying, that players are people and not strictly commodities. He realized that he could get more out of his team if could earn the players respect.

Yes, a QB goes a long way to turning things around for the franchise and for the HC and GM. However, I still assert that knowing how to work with people is an enormous piece of the puzzle and it makes the journey to respectability in the league a shorter one. You say you've only seen one Hard Knocks episode, and so I guess when I hear you say Philbin's lack of people skills is not an issue, all I hear is blah, blah, blah, myself. I'm not alone in my assertion that this is an issue. Jim Rome discussed it recently, NFL Network talking heads have talked about it and this morning on the way to work it was the topic of discussion on the local sports station. The issue is glaring if you've seen the show.

At the same time, in Philbin's defense, I think he has a vision, I think he is a smart dude, and I love that work ethic is being stressed as essential to team building. The jury is very much out on Philbin, but if you've seen the show, anyone should be able to quickly tell that one on one, Philbin lacks some clear leadership qualities.


The episodes are available to everyone if you have a computer and a nose to peck at the keys with. I've seen all the episodes you have for the record. Philbin came in with no connections whatsoever, so what can we establish? He probably wants to A) assert his position and B) find out who he can most rely upon. He didn't bring players here. He didn't bring his executives or GM or QB or anything like that. He selected coaches and that's it.

What Philbin is doing is being as cut and dry as he can with everybody because as Ovaw was talking about, this team lacks structure, discipline and maturity. Hence Philbin is putting coaches in positions of power and testing them as leaders themselves. You might see that as delegating responsibility--and you'll paint him cowardly for it--but that's how every good team works. If you can't rely on your positional coaches you'll fail. A head coach is a manager of other coaches, he's not an tutor to each player. He's not sitting there working with every player at every position, in fact he's really not working with any players consistently. That's not his job.

Philbin's job is to be accountable for the whole operation which means he's a big picture guy who has to (at this early stage) create a very firm position and find out what players are going to buck that authority and which players are going to work for him. Notice that amongst the 3 team leaders (Bush, Long and Dansby) that only one of them is being vocal about questioning the HC. Bush and Long are true professionals and that's what Philbin's whole thing is about right now.

Philbin is currently in Phase 1 of Project Rebuild, you're trying to compare that to a guy who was in Phase 10 of another project. That's a completely different case with regard to how you have to act--completely different.
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

phinmun wrote:
Mercury22 wrote:
Coughlin changed/worked on his people skills because he almost lost his job and the players nearly revolted on him. He realized, exactly what I am saying, that players are people and not strictly commodities. He realized that he could get more out of his team if could earn the players respect.

Yes, a QB goes a long way to turning things around for the franchise and for the HC and GM. However, I still assert that knowing how to work with people is an enormous piece of the puzzle and it makes the journey to respectability in the league a shorter one. You say you've only seen one Hard Knocks episode, and so I guess when I hear you say Philbin's lack of people skills is not an issue, all I hear is blah, blah, blah, myself. I'm not alone in my assertion that this is an issue. Jim Rome discussed it recently, NFL Network talking heads have talked about it and this morning on the way to work it was the topic of discussion on the local sports station. The issue is glaring if you've seen the show.

At the same time, in Philbin's defense, I think he has a vision, I think he is a smart dude, and I love that work ethic is being stressed as essential to team building. The jury is very much out on Philbin, but if you've seen the show, anyone should be able to quickly tell that one on one, Philbin lacks some clear leadership qualities.


The episodes are available to everyone if you have a computer and a nose to peck at the keys with. I've seen all the episodes you have for the record. Philbin came in with no connections whatsoever, so what can we establish? He probably wants to A) assert his position and B) find out who he can most rely upon. He didn't bring players here. He didn't bring his executives or GM or QB or anything like that. He selected coaches and that's it.

What Philbin is doing is being as cut and dry as he can with everybody because as Ovaw was talking about, this team lacks structure, discipline and maturity. Hence Philbin is putting coaches in positions of power and testing them as leaders themselves. You might see that as delegating responsibility--and you'll paint him cowardly for it--but that's how every good team works. If you can't rely on your positional coaches you'll fail. A head coach is a manager of other coaches, he's not an tutor to each player. He's not sitting there working with every player at every position, in fact he's really not working with any players consistently. That's not his job.

Philbin's job is to be accountable for the whole operation which means he's a big picture guy who has to (at this early stage) create a very firm position and find out what players are going to buck that authority and which players are going to work for him. Notice that amongst the 3 team leaders (Bush, Long and Dansby) that only one of them is being vocal about questioning the HC. Bush and Long are true professionals and that's what Philbin's whole thing is about right now.

Philbin is currently in Phase 1 of Project Rebuild, you're trying to compare that to a guy who was in Phase 10 of another project. That's a completely different case with regard to how you have to act--completely different.


Its so hilarious that you suggested just a few short posts ago that I was putting words into other posters mouths and that I was pretending to know them better than they know themselves and then you post: "You might see that as delegating responsibility--and you'll paint him cowardly for it--but that's how every good team works." When and where have I ever said he was a coward? When and where have I ever said I have a problem with delegation? So weird. And for the record, I didn't try and compare Coughlin to Ireland. That comparison was brought up by others. I merely pointed out the truth, which is that Coughlin learned that people skills are a huge part of his job and he worked at it.

You got some king kong sized cajones to suggest I speak for others, when you are quoting me before I've even had a chance to speak for myself. Especially when those quotes are huge jumps in logic and have no connection to my posts whatsoever.
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Dolphinemidget


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Short term this sucks, V. Davis is a good CB and at times was clutch. Long term I am hoping we can use the pick to bring in some new talent and if the Colts stink this year (I think they will, they will probably be in a race with Jacksonville, Browns and us for the #1 pick) so this will let us pick 2 players early in the 2nd round.


But I still not over Marshall trade...
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