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Superman(DH23)


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chisoxguy7 wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
LAPD is far from having a reputation as a squeaky clean force, but when the person making the accusation is a murderer, his credibility is lacking and deserves no benefit of the doubt.


To be fair, he spoke out first and then got fired for it. The killing came later, when he decided that the railroading had ruined his life.
TBF somebody capable of committing a heinous act, is certainly capable of lying. You act like there is justification for what he did, there isn't. The only justification for taking another human life is to protect your own life, or the life of somebody else, something that every police officer swears to when they take the job.
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chisoxguy7


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, this has been happening all day with my brother's girlfriend...

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3szdld/
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chisoxguy7


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In 2002, Dorner and a classmate found a bag containing nearly $8,000 that belonged to Enid Korean Church of Grace in Enid, Oklahoma. They turned it in to the police. When asked their motive, Dorner said "it's an integrity thing." "The military stresses integrity," Dorner said. "There was a couple of thousand dollars, and if people are willing to give that to a church, it must be pretty important to them." Dorner said his mother taught him honesty and integrity.


You might hate the guy, Supe, but there's no denying that he was a good guy once. You have to wonder what changed that.
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chisoxguy7 wrote:
Quote:
In 2002, Dorner and a classmate found a bag containing nearly $8,000 that belonged to Enid Korean Church of Grace in Enid, Oklahoma. They turned it in to the police. When asked their motive, Dorner said "it's an integrity thing." "The military stresses integrity," Dorner said. "There was a couple of thousand dollars, and if people are willing to give that to a church, it must be pretty important to them." Dorner said his mother taught him honesty and integrity.


You might hate the guy, Supe, but there's no denying that he was a good guy once. You have to wonder what changed that.
What does this have to do with the guy committing 4 murders? I have no feelings towards the guy at all, I didn't know him or the other people, but you seem to have it in your head that someone can be "turned bad" by the acts of others around him, that simply isn't the case.
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chisoxguy7


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
chisoxguy7 wrote:
Quote:
In 2002, Dorner and a classmate found a bag containing nearly $8,000 that belonged to Enid Korean Church of Grace in Enid, Oklahoma. They turned it in to the police. When asked their motive, Dorner said "it's an integrity thing." "The military stresses integrity," Dorner said. "There was a couple of thousand dollars, and if people are willing to give that to a church, it must be pretty important to them." Dorner said his mother taught him honesty and integrity.


You might hate the guy, Supe, but there's no denying that he was a good guy once. You have to wonder what changed that.
What does this have to do with the guy committing 4 murders? I have no feelings towards the guy at all, I didn't know him or the other people, but you seem to have it in your head that someone can be "turned bad" by the acts of others around him, that simply isn't the case.


I'm sorry, but that's absolutely the case.

If someone ruins my life, my career, or anything of the sort, there's a high likelihood that incident is going to alter who I am as a person.
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GOGRIESE


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright well that discussion continues to get disturbing.....


To change subjects asked a girl out today....we'll see how that goes.
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chisoxguy7


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a post on the issue that I found on Reddit, specifically in the subreddit "Explain it like I'm 5". I want to clear up that I'm not condoning Chris Dorner's actions, I merely feel some sympathy for his situation.

The profanity filter will be triggered, but I CBA to go through and remove each one.
From Reddit, credit to user Cikedo:

Quote:
Dorner was terminated on September 4, 2008, for filing a report concerning the conduct of fellow police officer, Teresa Evans (now a sergeant), for excessive force, which the police claim is false. Dorner accused Officer Evans of kicking suspect Christopher Gettler in the face while he was handcuffed and lying on the ground. An internal review board concluded that Dorner had falsified his report despite the corroborating statements of the kicking victim and of Gettler's father.[13] Dorner cited his termination and sworn testimony that such excessive force did occur

Side 1: Dorner was fired for blowing the whistle on a cop using excessive force. Long story short - he was called a liar, and fired. People support him in this endeavor because even if he was mistaken and excessive force wasn't used, he shouldn't have been fired for just watching the public's back, myself included. It probably makes more sense to say "I support what happened was immoral" rather than to say "I support Dorner."
Quote:
On February 9, 2013, the LAPD announced that it would reopen the disciplinary proceedings that led to Dorner's firing

I think the LAPD messed up, and I hope this will lead to some changes in law enforcement, especially the amount of people that were caught in the crossfire of the man hunt (1 killed, 2 injured IIRC).
The other reason people support Dorner is because of the rampant LAPD brutality/violence that has occurred not just because of this, but that happens all the time. I mean, just in trying to ARREST Dorner, 2 people were shot (without even being approached), and a young black male was killed because he ran away from police. I mean... that's pretty [inappropriate/removed] up. I'm pretty sure there are laws nowadays that clearly state you can't shoot unarmed people running away if you're a cop (if you're not a cop this is called MURDER). This poor guy... he ran away, was shot something like SIX [inappropriate/removed] TIMES, he was then shot one additional time at point blank range (I.E. EXECUTED), even though he was unarmed, down, wounded, and not a threat.
Cop shoots man 6 times in the back. The man collapses on the sidewalk and the cop walks up and fires one more kill shot. Then another 2 kill shots. Man dies.
It IS important that you support the cause Dorner was fighting for, brutality/corruption in the LAPD, it's just equally important that you recognize that this man was no better than the demons he was fighting. (Thank you Amarkov)
It's also noteworthy that he was very successful, and maybe not "highly decorated", he was definitely the recipient of medals, commendations, and awards... I.E. - he was a good cop, and a good person, at least until all this [inappropriate/removed] happened.
Quote:
Dorner was a former Naval Reserve lieutenant (O-3) who was honorably discharged.

In 2002, Dorner and a classmate found a bag containing nearly $8,000 that belonged to Enid Korean Church of Grace in Enid, Oklahoma. They turned it in to the police.

______________________________________________________
Quote:
He is the primary suspect in the 2013 Southern California shootings, a series of shooting attacks on police officers from February 3 to 12 that left four people dead, including two police officers, and four police officers wounded. He is the subject of one of the largest manhunts in LAPD history,[3] one spanning four U.S. states and Mexico.[4]

Side 2: Allegedly (though I believe there's strong evidence) he murdered in cold blood. He killed 4 people, 2 of which were cops - and even if you say killing the cops was justified for ruining his life - he also murdered 2 other people completely unrelated to the corruption in the LAPD (TrouM4N: They were family members of LAPD officers.). He also is charged with the attempted murder of 3 cops. (I can't find a source that clarifies if he wounded 3 or 2 cops, either way - he wounded at least 2, killed at least 2, and killed at least 2 innocent non-officers.)
Long story short - support the fact that he never should have been fired. Don't support the actual person though, because he's (again, allegedly) a murderer.
When you say "why some people are agreeing with him", it actually makes me kind of sad to see how overzealous people are in supporting him. If you're going to side with this man, it's very important for you to lay out (in my opinion) that you in NO WAY support the killing's he committed, but rather that you agree he was wronged. That's how I feel - the guy was wronged, but he also is very likely a cold-blooded murderer.
Too many people, Reddit and elsewhere, are skating the line between "supporting a cause" and "siding with a murderer".
Quote:
Dorner cited his termination and sworn testimony that such excessive force did occur, in his online manifesto in early February 2013 as his reason for planning unspecified violence

This is important because I think the man more or less confessed to at least killing the cops. He brings up plans of "unspecified violence" in his manifesto, and cites reasons for what he's done.
I don't have much information on what was in his manifesto, what he talked about in it, or how the manifesto is being viewed (Is it concise, and intelligent? Is it unintelligible and rambling? Half and half? Did he confess to anything?). Feel free to fill in that gap if you know anything about it.
In closing: "Is it accurate to say that terrorism is acceptable, when all options for peaceful settlement has been foreclosed?" There is no "correct" answer on the topic of Dorner, maybe some good will come out of it, but does that mean "the ends justify the means?". If 4 people died to save 10... does that mean Chris Dorner technically did good? I don't think there's a good answer for it, I don't think there's a right side and a wrong side. People died, some people may be saved, Chris Dorner was wronged, and Chris Dorner did wrong. This was a tragedy, and some good may come of it - that much is fact.
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The idea that somebody can be turned bad by the actions of others is ludicrous. Its one thing when mitigating circumstances lead someone to a life of crime b/c that's the only life they've ever known. The only way to escape a life of poverty they were born into, that the differential in class creates. Its another thing to say "well they screwed me over so I'm going to kill them." He quite obviously was very disturbed, and was teetering on the edge before any of this went down. The thing you don't seem to realize, being a police officer appeals to these personality types. So the fact that he was a police officer, or a military vet (which I am also, but I had the priveledge of being a vet of the JAG Corps so my understanding of the amount of bad guys in the military is quite extensive), or that he helped an old lady across the street when he was 12, doesn't matter. TBH I don't even care whether he was lying or telling the truth on the excessive force matter, HE KILLED 4 PEOPLE. He did so w/o remorse, w/o provactaion, and w/ malice aforethought. He is a murderer, and by definition a despicable human being. The problem is as humans, we have a tough time understanding why people commit heinous acts. We look for reasoning and justification where there is none. Some people are just bad, they make the choice to be so. They aren't a product of their environment, or a wronged party seeking justice. They are just bad people.

And Congrats Griese.
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chisoxguy7


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we're just going to have to disagree.
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chisoxguy7


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand where this Harlem Shake business came from.
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AZBearsFan


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going to the car show then Blackhawks / Kings game today.
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chisoxguy7


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm 21 today, fellas.
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GOGRIESE


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chisoxguy7 wrote:
I'm 21 today, fellas.


Happy B Day! Welcome to the club Very Happy
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chisoxguy7


Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GOGRIESE wrote:
chisoxguy7 wrote:
I'm 21 today, fellas.


Happy B Day! Welcome to the club Very Happy


Thanks Smile

All downhill from here!
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CBears019


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate every bit of this:

Quote:
NFL proposing changes to offseason calendar

The NFL is proposing an overhaul to its offseason calendar, pushing back the Scouting Combine to early March, the start of free agency to early April and the draft to early May.
The proposed plan needs to be approved by the NFL Players Association, but the league is reportedly aggressively pushing the changes. Under the proposal, every team would open training camp on the same day in the summer, making it the universal kickoff for football season. The new idea was conjured up in order to lengthen the offseason and have one major event each month, while creating a new revenue stream for the league.

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