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| Marino vs Manning |
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Fired-Up
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 788
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 Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:32 am Post subject: |
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| All IN 14-0! wrote: | | Fired-Up wrote: | It's Manning in a landslide. The year before Marino was drafted the Dolphins went to the super bowl on the strengths of the defense and running game.
In Marinos incredible 1984 season the Dolphins managed 4.0 ypc back when that was a good number. In the 1984 season the Dolphins had the #6 scoring defense in the NFL. Marino was a ball hogger. He absorbed way too many of the snaps for the running game to be worth anything.
Marino has played for the number one scoring defense twice in his career.
Marino played with 64 pro bowl players in his 17 year career. Talk about being surrounded by talent.
Marino spent his career playing for the winningest coach in NFL history. Talk about being in a great system.
Marino's play dropped in the playoffs. His career passer rating in the regular season is 86.4. That drops to 77.1 in the postseason.
Marino threw an interception in 13 of his career playoff games. He threw multi INT's 10 times.
So if anyone wants to no why the Dolphins never won a super bowl in the Marino era, just take a look at your Marino jersey. |
As usual, you came up with a "flawed" reality to support your case. Let me educate you on what really happened from someone who was around for it.
Yes, Marino went to a team that was coming off a SB loss. An aging team, that benefitted from the strike-shortened season, and is considered one of the weaker SB teams ever. But he still went 12-4, 14-2, and 12-4 over his FIRST 3 years in the NFL. This included the best rookie season by a QB ever(2nd-team all-pro), and the arguably the best season by a QB ever. And he lost a SB to one of the best teams ever(1984 SF). All while many of those players from 1982 were retiring or playing on their last legs.
And that 4.0 YPC would have been 16th in the NFL that season. That's below-average, not a "good" number like you claim. They averaged 30 rushes per game. Good for 17th in the league. Not a low number caused by a "ballhog".
Yeah, Marino had the #1 DEF twice. His rookie year, and his next to last year. Lost both times in the division round of playoffs. Manning had the #1 DEF in 2007 and lost 1st game. He also had the #2 DEF in 2005 and lost in 1st round. That #2 DEF gave up less PPG than either of MIA's #1 DEF's did. So what was the point of this statement?
Now, as for your Pro Bowl statement. Marino played with 24 players who combined to make 54 appearances in his 17 years Can't use Marino's own appearances to help your case. That's just sad. And 13 of those 54 came in Marino's 1st 2 seasons.
As you have been told already, Shula ran the ball as his "system" until Marino came around. He changed Shula's entire way of thinking. That and the death of David Overstreet, who would have been that top-tier back they always searched for, cause Shula to have to throw to win. Losing Keuchenberg(83), Newman(84), and HOF Stephenson(87) hurt a great deal. And Shula still tried to establish the run at the start of many games. But it would always fail and they would have to throw to catch back up.
Did Marino's play "drop-off" in the playoffs. Absolutely. But so does Peyton's. Not seeing a significant separation in the two of them. If the Colts DEF doesn't get hot and healthy in 2006, Peyton still doesn't have a ring.
And also remember, Marino had to play his entire career under the rules the Peyton did from 1998-2003. Peyton's numbers took a large "spike" in 2004 when the rules opened up the passing game more. That's not just a coincidence.
Just because you can "cherry-pick" a few stats doesn't indicate you have a real understanding of what they actually mean, or how they came to be. |
This is just a bunch of excuses. Marino has been surrounded by talent as has Manning. Only difference is one has a ring and the other doesn't. Marino has just choked.
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CP3MVP
Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 1799
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:15 am Post subject: |
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| The colts win with Marino in 07' like they did with Peyton. I really can't see Marino playing any worse then manning |
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x0x
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 17032
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Fired-Up wrote: |
This is just a bunch of excuses. Marino has been surrounded by talent as has Manning. Only difference is one has a ring and the other doesn't. Marino has just choked. |
This is why my respect for people born in the 90s is so low.
Please tell me how guys like McDuffie and Higgs constitute talent.
Read up on the Dolphins' 1992 season for reference.
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Fired-Up
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 788
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| x0x wrote: | | Fired-Up wrote: |
This is just a bunch of excuses. Marino has been surrounded by talent as has Manning. Only difference is one has a ring and the other doesn't. Marino has just choked. |
This is why my respect for people born in the 90s is so low.
Please tell me how guys like McDuffie and Higgs constitute talent.
Read up on the Dolphins' 1992 season for reference. |
I was born in 1990. So that makes me 22 years old. But I really don't care. Marino has played for number 1 defenses. Defending super bowl champs. Numerous pro bowlers. Marino is just a choker. He hasn't gotten it done.
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sn0mm1s
Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Posts: 2498
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Fired-Up wrote: | | x0x wrote: | | Fired-Up wrote: |
This is just a bunch of excuses. Marino has been surrounded by talent as has Manning. Only difference is one has a ring and the other doesn't. Marino has just choked. |
This is why my respect for people born in the 90s is so low.
Please tell me how guys like McDuffie and Higgs constitute talent.
Read up on the Dolphins' 1992 season for reference. |
I was born in 1990. So that makes me 22 years old. But I really don't care. Marino has played for number 1 defenses. Defending super bowl champs. Numerous pro bowlers. Marino is just a choker. He hasn't gotten it done. |
Actually, during the prime of his career, Marino didn't have very good defenses compared to other top QBs. He is pretty much the only HOF QB that can say that. |
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Fired-Up
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 788
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| sn0mm1s wrote: | | Fired-Up wrote: | | x0x wrote: | | Fired-Up wrote: |
This is just a bunch of excuses. Marino has been surrounded by talent as has Manning. Only difference is one has a ring and the other doesn't. Marino has just choked. |
This is why my respect for people born in the 90s is so low.
Please tell me how guys like McDuffie and Higgs constitute talent.
Read up on the Dolphins' 1992 season for reference. |
I was born in 1990. So that makes me 22 years old. But I really don't care. Marino has played for number 1 defenses. Defending super bowl champs. Numerous pro bowlers. Marino is just a choker. He hasn't gotten it done. |
Actually, during the prime of his career, Marino didn't have very good defenses compared to other top QBs. He is pretty much the only HOF QB that can say that. |
What are you talking about? In Marino's best season he had the 6th ranked scoring defense.
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All IN 14-0!
Joined: 20 Apr 2011
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Fired-Up wrote: | | All IN 14-0! wrote: | | Fired-Up wrote: | It's Manning in a landslide. The year before Marino was drafted the Dolphins went to the super bowl on the strengths of the defense and running game.
In Marinos incredible 1984 season the Dolphins managed 4.0 ypc back when that was a good number. In the 1984 season the Dolphins had the #6 scoring defense in the NFL. Marino was a ball hogger. He absorbed way too many of the snaps for the running game to be worth anything.
Marino has played for the number one scoring defense twice in his career.
Marino played with 64 pro bowl players in his 17 year career. Talk about being surrounded by talent.
Marino spent his career playing for the winningest coach in NFL history. Talk about being in a great system.
Marino's play dropped in the playoffs. His career passer rating in the regular season is 86.4. That drops to 77.1 in the postseason.
Marino threw an interception in 13 of his career playoff games. He threw multi INT's 10 times.
So if anyone wants to no why the Dolphins never won a super bowl in the Marino era, just take a look at your Marino jersey. |
As usual, you came up with a "flawed" reality to support your case. Let me educate you on what really happened from someone who was around for it.
Yes, Marino went to a team that was coming off a SB loss. An aging team, that benefitted from the strike-shortened season, and is considered one of the weaker SB teams ever. But he still went 12-4, 14-2, and 12-4 over his FIRST 3 years in the NFL. This included the best rookie season by a QB ever(2nd-team all-pro), and the arguably the best season by a QB ever. And he lost a SB to one of the best teams ever(1984 SF). All while many of those players from 1982 were retiring or playing on their last legs.
And that 4.0 YPC would have been 16th in the NFL that season. That's below-average, not a "good" number like you claim. They averaged 30 rushes per game. Good for 17th in the league. Not a low number caused by a "ballhog".
Yeah, Marino had the #1 DEF twice. His rookie year, and his next to last year. Lost both times in the division round of playoffs. Manning had the #1 DEF in 2007 and lost 1st game. He also had the #2 DEF in 2005 and lost in 1st round. That #2 DEF gave up less PPG than either of MIA's #1 DEF's did. So what was the point of this statement?
Now, as for your Pro Bowl statement. Marino played with 24 players who combined to make 54 appearances in his 17 years Can't use Marino's own appearances to help your case. That's just sad. And 13 of those 54 came in Marino's 1st 2 seasons.
As you have been told already, Shula ran the ball as his "system" until Marino came around. He changed Shula's entire way of thinking. That and the death of David Overstreet, who would have been that top-tier back they always searched for, cause Shula to have to throw to win. Losing Keuchenberg(83), Newman(84), and HOF Stephenson(87) hurt a great deal. And Shula still tried to establish the run at the start of many games. But it would always fail and they would have to throw to catch back up.
Did Marino's play "drop-off" in the playoffs. Absolutely. But so does Peyton's. Not seeing a significant separation in the two of them. If the Colts DEF doesn't get hot and healthy in 2006, Peyton still doesn't have a ring.
And also remember, Marino had to play his entire career under the rules the Peyton did from 1998-2003. Peyton's numbers took a large "spike" in 2004 when the rules opened up the passing game more. That's not just a coincidence.
Just because you can "cherry-pick" a few stats doesn't indicate you have a real understanding of what they actually mean, or how they came to be. |
This is just a bunch of excuses. Marino has been surrounded by talent as has Manning. Only difference is one has a ring and the other doesn't. Marino has just choked. |
So you have went from mis-representing "cherry-picked" stats, and flat-out lies, to now just stomping your feet and proclaiming "I'm right because I said so." 
If that's the best you can do, you're not even worth debating, correcting, or acknowledging at all. |
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Titans_31
Joined: 27 Apr 2012
Posts: 246
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| To me its Manning every time. |
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Fired-Up
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 788
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| All IN 14-0! wrote: | | Fired-Up wrote: | | All IN 14-0! wrote: | | Fired-Up wrote: | It's Manning in a landslide. The year before Marino was drafted the Dolphins went to the super bowl on the strengths of the defense and running game.
In Marinos incredible 1984 season the Dolphins managed 4.0 ypc back when that was a good number. In the 1984 season the Dolphins had the #6 scoring defense in the NFL. Marino was a ball hogger. He absorbed way too many of the snaps for the running game to be worth anything.
Marino has played for the number one scoring defense twice in his career.
Marino played with 64 pro bowl players in his 17 year career. Talk about being surrounded by talent.
Marino spent his career playing for the winningest coach in NFL history. Talk about being in a great system.
Marino's play dropped in the playoffs. His career passer rating in the regular season is 86.4. That drops to 77.1 in the postseason.
Marino threw an interception in 13 of his career playoff games. He threw multi INT's 10 times.
So if anyone wants to no why the Dolphins never won a super bowl in the Marino era, just take a look at your Marino jersey. |
As usual, you came up with a "flawed" reality to support your case. Let me educate you on what really happened from someone who was around for it.
Yes, Marino went to a team that was coming off a SB loss. An aging team, that benefitted from the strike-shortened season, and is considered one of the weaker SB teams ever. But he still went 12-4, 14-2, and 12-4 over his FIRST 3 years in the NFL. This included the best rookie season by a QB ever(2nd-team all-pro), and the arguably the best season by a QB ever. And he lost a SB to one of the best teams ever(1984 SF). All while many of those players from 1982 were retiring or playing on their last legs.
And that 4.0 YPC would have been 16th in the NFL that season. That's below-average, not a "good" number like you claim. They averaged 30 rushes per game. Good for 17th in the league. Not a low number caused by a "ballhog".
Yeah, Marino had the #1 DEF twice. His rookie year, and his next to last year. Lost both times in the division round of playoffs. Manning had the #1 DEF in 2007 and lost 1st game. He also had the #2 DEF in 2005 and lost in 1st round. That #2 DEF gave up less PPG than either of MIA's #1 DEF's did. So what was the point of this statement?
Now, as for your Pro Bowl statement. Marino played with 24 players who combined to make 54 appearances in his 17 years Can't use Marino's own appearances to help your case. That's just sad. And 13 of those 54 came in Marino's 1st 2 seasons.
As you have been told already, Shula ran the ball as his "system" until Marino came around. He changed Shula's entire way of thinking. That and the death of David Overstreet, who would have been that top-tier back they always searched for, cause Shula to have to throw to win. Losing Keuchenberg(83), Newman(84), and HOF Stephenson(87) hurt a great deal. And Shula still tried to establish the run at the start of many games. But it would always fail and they would have to throw to catch back up.
Did Marino's play "drop-off" in the playoffs. Absolutely. But so does Peyton's. Not seeing a significant separation in the two of them. If the Colts DEF doesn't get hot and healthy in 2006, Peyton still doesn't have a ring.
And also remember, Marino had to play his entire career under the rules the Peyton did from 1998-2003. Peyton's numbers took a large "spike" in 2004 when the rules opened up the passing game more. That's not just a coincidence.
Just because you can "cherry-pick" a few stats doesn't indicate you have a real understanding of what they actually mean, or how they came to be. |
This is just a bunch of excuses. Marino has been surrounded by talent as has Manning. Only difference is one has a ring and the other doesn't. Marino has just choked. |
So you have went from mis-representing "cherry-picked" stats, and flat-out lies, to now just stomping your feet and proclaiming "I'm right because I said so."
If that's the best you can do, you're not even worth debating, correcting, or acknowledging at all. |
I don't subscribe to the Marino was jobbed theory.
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sn0mm1s
Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Posts: 2498
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| Fired-Up wrote: | | sn0mm1s wrote: | | Fired-Up wrote: | | x0x wrote: | | Fired-Up wrote: |
This is just a bunch of excuses. Marino has been surrounded by talent as has Manning. Only difference is one has a ring and the other doesn't. Marino has just choked. |
This is why my respect for people born in the 90s is so low.
Please tell me how guys like McDuffie and Higgs constitute talent.
Read up on the Dolphins' 1992 season for reference. |
I was born in 1990. So that makes me 22 years old. But I really don't care. Marino has played for number 1 defenses. Defending super bowl champs. Numerous pro bowlers. Marino is just a choker. He hasn't gotten it done. |
Actually, during the prime of his career, Marino didn't have very good defenses compared to other top QBs. He is pretty much the only HOF QB that can say that. |
What are you talking about? In Marino's best season he had the 6th ranked scoring defense. |
Manning has been in the league 14 years.
Forgetting his rookie year (no rookie QB has lead a team to a SB win). From his 2nd year on Manning has played with 5 defenses ranked in the single digits.
Marino, over that same time frame played with 2, his 2nd year when they were ranked 7th and his 8th year when they were ranked 4th. Go look up some of the other greats and see how many of their D's are ranked in the single digits. You will find that Marino is by far the worst. |
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Fired-Up
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 788
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| sn0mm1s wrote: | | Fired-Up wrote: | | sn0mm1s wrote: | | Fired-Up wrote: | | x0x wrote: | | Fired-Up wrote: |
This is just a bunch of excuses. Marino has been surrounded by talent as has Manning. Only difference is one has a ring and the other doesn't. Marino has just choked. |
This is why my respect for people born in the 90s is so low.
Please tell me how guys like McDuffie and Higgs constitute talent.
Read up on the Dolphins' 1992 season for reference. |
I was born in 1990. So that makes me 22 years old. But I really don't care. Marino has played for number 1 defenses. Defending super bowl champs. Numerous pro bowlers. Marino is just a choker. He hasn't gotten it done. |
Actually, during the prime of his career, Marino didn't have very good defenses compared to other top QBs. He is pretty much the only HOF QB that can say that. |
What are you talking about? In Marino's best season he had the 6th ranked scoring defense. |
Manning has been in the league 14 years.
Forgetting his rookie year (no rookie QB has lead a team to a SB win). From his 2nd year on Manning has played with 5 defenses ranked in the single digits.
Marino, over that same time frame played with 2, his 2nd year when they were ranked 7th and his 8th year when they were ranked 4th. Go look up some of the other greats and see how many of their D's are ranked in the single digits. You will find that Marino is by far the worst. |
Marino has had the best defense in the league twice. Do you realize how good of a situation that is?
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The Packers are the premier franchise in the NFL. DEAL WITH IT. |
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Bobikus
Joined: 07 Jun 2009
Posts: 9656
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:41 am Post subject: |
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Not a particularly amazing one, considering that the first time Marino was a rookie, and the second time Marino was 37 years old. Also that second #1 D gave up 250 rushing yards in their playoff loss, allowing 199 yards on 21 carries to Terrel Davis, and only played with a top 10 defense in 3 other seasons. This is also while having nowhere close to the talent around him on offense that Manning has had.
Also for comparison on other HoF QBs: Montana had a top 3 D 7 times in 10 years as the primary passer for the 49ers, Young had a top 3 D 3 of 8 years as the primary passer and a top 6 D 6 of 8 times.
Of course, this is keeping in mind that regular season defensive ranks don't mean anything once the playoff starts. The 06 Colts team that stopped the Chiefs and Ravens cold in the playoffs were ranked only 23rd in the regular season, while the #1 Ranked 07 defense gave up 28 at home to the Chargers in a postseason loss.
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sn0mm1s
Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Posts: 2498
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| Fired-Up wrote: |
Marino has had the best defense in the league twice. Do you realize how good of a situation that is? |
It isn't a good situation when it happens as a rookie and in his 16th year. Do you not comprehend "prime" or are you being deliberately obtuse? |
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mse326
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 18111
Location: mike23md on the sig
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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Again. Defense is only relevant to W/L, not how he played.
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Fired-Up
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 788
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| sn0mm1s wrote: | | Fired-Up wrote: |
Marino has had the best defense in the league twice. Do you realize how good of a situation that is? |
It isn't a good situation when it happens as a rookie and in his 16th year. Do you not comprehend "prime" or are you being deliberately obtuse? |
He had a good defense his best season in the league. Marino has performed very poorly in the playoffs. He threw a TON of picks.
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