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bruceb
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 5323
Location: Rocky River, OH
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 Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| NickZambo wrote: | | Entropy wrote: | | bruceb wrote: | | Estonianzulu wrote: | | StewieRules wrote: |
I read some of these posts, EZ and BruceB, etc ...good guys and all but regarding Weeden it makes me wonder, did he stuff you guys into lockers in HS or something? Honestly ... the anger displayed is a bit odd. |
Didn't like him coming out, wanted nothing to do with him in the draft and didn't think he could develop in time to be a super bowl winning Quarterback. I've been consistent in my unhappiness with the decision to draft him, it would not take anyone long to go back and see.
If he develops into a legitimate starting QB who can expand an offense and threaten a defense, make good decisions and improve his ball placement, then I will be happy to have him as our QB.
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=489217
That is what I said about him when he was an Oklahoma State Cowboy. Thus far, I have seen nothing to change my opinion |
Agree, maybe with you for the first time.
He has not won us a single game. Not sure he ever will.
Hoping I am wrong, but haven't seen any performance evidence to the contrary, yet. |
Ok bruce...what does a QB have to do to "win" a game...in your opinion?
What "evidence" do you need to see, in your opinion? |
If you negate the fact that he threw for 364 and a TD, we would have still won, obviously it wasn't because our of QB play... That 96 yard drive at the end of the game to get a TD, wasn't because of Weeden throwing for 70 yards on 5 completions and a 4th down rush conversion. Not at all...
 |
I am glad you are gratified by one long drive.
Sorry, but I am not on board with a guy that leads his team to 20 points in a game when his D has 8 takeaways, and 20 against a team that has given up an average of 42+ in their previous four games.
Receivers caught everything near them and TRich ground it out with Ds stacked against him in both games.
What cylinder didn't hit?
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NickZambo
Joined: 03 Mar 2009
Posts: 1388
Location: Pittsburgh Browns Backin'
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| nugpimpen wrote: | | ReggieCamp wrote: | Weeden is driving me crazy with his inconsistency. Just when I think he's turning the corner, he throws a couple headscratchers.
But overall, in terms of yesterday, I thought he did some very good things.
- Beautiful throw to Gordon on the long TD.
- Did a good job of going to his 2nd and 3rd reads to find the open man (on several occasions)
- At the end of the 3rd Q, OAK had serious momentum, and the Browns were pinned deep. Converted on 3rd and 10 with a pass to Little.
- The 94-yard drive in the 4th to clinch the game. Several good throws and decisions.
It's hard for me to remember many times when we sealed a game with a long offensive drive (that ended in a TD). How often have we found ways to lose those types of games? Very often.
Even against bad teams, we would typically lose games like that unless we had a big play (or 3) on special teams. Specials didn't contribute anything yesterday. We lost the turnover battle. And we still had a relatively comfortable win. That, to me, is progress. |
I can agree with everything.
To the people I have been arguing with about Weeden, I'm not saying everything is great.
Reg is right. It is maddening how inconsistent he has been. He will look very good and then overthrow someone for a pick. Yes, it drives you nuts.
The thing that I like is that the talent and ability are there and he shows you flashes. Because he is a rookie, I give him wiggle room.
If he was in his 4th year with us and was doing this, I would feel how some of you do. |
Agree with both posts here. He made mistakes on offense, but he didn't look inept out there. These are growing pains from a rookie, he needs to improve to keep his spot on top of the depth chart. But to say his play as a rookie hasn't warranted him the opportunity to start next year barring a massive meltdown over the next 4 games would be redic. He should only look better next year, if not, then you start scouting for QBs in 2014.
Remember, Mark Sanchez looked great his first year and a half with the Jets, now look at him.
Is Weeden the savior? Not yet. Was he a waste of a pick? Not yet. It goes both ways boys, the jury should still be out until after his first 16 games are in the books (and yes, it would be a novel idea to have one Cleveland Browns QB start all 16 games in a season, let alone a rookie season)....
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bruceb
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 5323
Location: Rocky River, OH
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| NickZambo wrote: | | nugpimpen wrote: | | ReggieCamp wrote: | Weeden is driving me crazy with his inconsistency. Just when I think he's turning the corner, he throws a couple headscratchers.
But overall, in terms of yesterday, I thought he did some very good things.
- Beautiful throw to Gordon on the long TD.
- Did a good job of going to his 2nd and 3rd reads to find the open man (on several occasions)
- At the end of the 3rd Q, OAK had serious momentum, and the Browns were pinned deep. Converted on 3rd and 10 with a pass to Little.
- The 94-yard drive in the 4th to clinch the game. Several good throws and decisions.
It's hard for me to remember many times when we sealed a game with a long offensive drive (that ended in a TD). How often have we found ways to lose those types of games? Very often.
Even against bad teams, we would typically lose games like that unless we had a big play (or 3) on special teams. Specials didn't contribute anything yesterday. We lost the turnover battle. And we still had a relatively comfortable win. That, to me, is progress. |
I can agree with everything.
To the people I have been arguing with about Weeden, I'm not saying everything is great.
Reg is right. It is maddening how inconsistent he has been. He will look very good and then overthrow someone for a pick. Yes, it drives you nuts.
The thing that I like is that the talent and ability are there and he shows you flashes. Because he is a rookie, I give him wiggle room.
If he was in his 4th year with us and was doing this, I would feel how some of you do. |
Agree with both posts here. He made mistakes on offense, but he didn't look inept out there. These are growing pains from a rookie, he needs to improve to keep his spot on top of the depth chart. But to say his play as a rookie hasn't warranted him the opportunity to start next year barring a massive meltdown over the next 4 games would be redic. He should only look better next year, if not, then you start scouting for QBs in 2014.
Remember, Mark Sanchez looked great his first year and a half with the Jets, now look at him.
Is Weeden the savior? Not yet. Was he a waste of a pick? Not yet. It goes both ways boys, the jury should still be out until after his first 16 games are in the books (and yes, it would be a novel idea to have one Cleveland Browns QB start all 16 games in a season, let alone a rookie season).... |
Good post. Fair and balanced.
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nugpimpen
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 12093
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| bruceb wrote: | | NickZambo wrote: | | nugpimpen wrote: | | ReggieCamp wrote: | Weeden is driving me crazy with his inconsistency. Just when I think he's turning the corner, he throws a couple headscratchers.
But overall, in terms of yesterday, I thought he did some very good things.
- Beautiful throw to Gordon on the long TD.
- Did a good job of going to his 2nd and 3rd reads to find the open man (on several occasions)
- At the end of the 3rd Q, OAK had serious momentum, and the Browns were pinned deep. Converted on 3rd and 10 with a pass to Little.
- The 94-yard drive in the 4th to clinch the game. Several good throws and decisions.
It's hard for me to remember many times when we sealed a game with a long offensive drive (that ended in a TD). How often have we found ways to lose those types of games? Very often.
Even against bad teams, we would typically lose games like that unless we had a big play (or 3) on special teams. Specials didn't contribute anything yesterday. We lost the turnover battle. And we still had a relatively comfortable win. That, to me, is progress. |
I can agree with everything.
To the people I have been arguing with about Weeden, I'm not saying everything is great.
Reg is right. It is maddening how inconsistent he has been. He will look very good and then overthrow someone for a pick. Yes, it drives you nuts.
The thing that I like is that the talent and ability are there and he shows you flashes. Because he is a rookie, I give him wiggle room.
If he was in his 4th year with us and was doing this, I would feel how some of you do. |
Agree with both posts here. He made mistakes on offense, but he didn't look inept out there. These are growing pains from a rookie, he needs to improve to keep his spot on top of the depth chart. But to say his play as a rookie hasn't warranted him the opportunity to start next year barring a massive meltdown over the next 4 games would be redic. He should only look better next year, if not, then you start scouting for QBs in 2014.
Remember, Mark Sanchez looked great his first year and a half with the Jets, now look at him.
Is Weeden the savior? Not yet. Was he a waste of a pick? Not yet. It goes both ways boys, the jury should still be out until after his first 16 games are in the books (and yes, it would be a novel idea to have one Cleveland Browns QB start all 16 games in a season, let alone a rookie season).... |
Good post. Fair and balanced. |
Ladies and Gentleman....
Middle Ground
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Dawgpoun8017
Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 9088
Location: Waterloo,NY
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| nugpimpen wrote: | | bruceb wrote: | | NickZambo wrote: | | nugpimpen wrote: | | ReggieCamp wrote: | Weeden is driving me crazy with his inconsistency. Just when I think he's turning the corner, he throws a couple headscratchers.
But overall, in terms of yesterday, I thought he did some very good things.
- Beautiful throw to Gordon on the long TD.
- Did a good job of going to his 2nd and 3rd reads to find the open man (on several occasions)
- At the end of the 3rd Q, OAK had serious momentum, and the Browns were pinned deep. Converted on 3rd and 10 with a pass to Little.
- The 94-yard drive in the 4th to clinch the game. Several good throws and decisions.
It's hard for me to remember many times when we sealed a game with a long offensive drive (that ended in a TD). How often have we found ways to lose those types of games? Very often.
Even against bad teams, we would typically lose games like that unless we had a big play (or 3) on special teams. Specials didn't contribute anything yesterday. We lost the turnover battle. And we still had a relatively comfortable win. That, to me, is progress. |
I can agree with everything.
To the people I have been arguing with about Weeden, I'm not saying everything is great.
Reg is right. It is maddening how inconsistent he has been. He will look very good and then overthrow someone for a pick. Yes, it drives you nuts.
The thing that I like is that the talent and ability are there and he shows you flashes. Because he is a rookie, I give him wiggle room.
If he was in his 4th year with us and was doing this, I would feel how some of you do. |
Agree with both posts here. He made mistakes on offense, but he didn't look inept out there. These are growing pains from a rookie, he needs to improve to keep his spot on top of the depth chart. But to say his play as a rookie hasn't warranted him the opportunity to start next year barring a massive meltdown over the next 4 games would be redic. He should only look better next year, if not, then you start scouting for QBs in 2014.
Remember, Mark Sanchez looked great his first year and a half with the Jets, now look at him.
Is Weeden the savior? Not yet. Was he a waste of a pick? Not yet. It goes both ways boys, the jury should still be out until after his first 16 games are in the books (and yes, it would be a novel idea to have one Cleveland Browns QB start all 16 games in a season, let alone a rookie season).... |
Good post. Fair and balanced. |
Ladies and Gentleman....
Middle Ground |
Isnt that where Horny Lives...... oh no wait thats Middle Earth
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2013 Joe Blackburn HOF Award Recipient
"Every man dies, not every man really lives."
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nugpimpen
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 12093
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Dawgpoun8017 wrote: | | nugpimpen wrote: | | bruceb wrote: | | NickZambo wrote: | | nugpimpen wrote: | | ReggieCamp wrote: | Weeden is driving me crazy with his inconsistency. Just when I think he's turning the corner, he throws a couple headscratchers.
But overall, in terms of yesterday, I thought he did some very good things.
- Beautiful throw to Gordon on the long TD.
- Did a good job of going to his 2nd and 3rd reads to find the open man (on several occasions)
- At the end of the 3rd Q, OAK had serious momentum, and the Browns were pinned deep. Converted on 3rd and 10 with a pass to Little.
- The 94-yard drive in the 4th to clinch the game. Several good throws and decisions.
It's hard for me to remember many times when we sealed a game with a long offensive drive (that ended in a TD). How often have we found ways to lose those types of games? Very often.
Even against bad teams, we would typically lose games like that unless we had a big play (or 3) on special teams. Specials didn't contribute anything yesterday. We lost the turnover battle. And we still had a relatively comfortable win. That, to me, is progress. |
I can agree with everything.
To the people I have been arguing with about Weeden, I'm not saying everything is great.
Reg is right. It is maddening how inconsistent he has been. He will look very good and then overthrow someone for a pick. Yes, it drives you nuts.
The thing that I like is that the talent and ability are there and he shows you flashes. Because he is a rookie, I give him wiggle room.
If he was in his 4th year with us and was doing this, I would feel how some of you do. |
Agree with both posts here. He made mistakes on offense, but he didn't look inept out there. These are growing pains from a rookie, he needs to improve to keep his spot on top of the depth chart. But to say his play as a rookie hasn't warranted him the opportunity to start next year barring a massive meltdown over the next 4 games would be redic. He should only look better next year, if not, then you start scouting for QBs in 2014.
Remember, Mark Sanchez looked great his first year and a half with the Jets, now look at him.
Is Weeden the savior? Not yet. Was he a waste of a pick? Not yet. It goes both ways boys, the jury should still be out until after his first 16 games are in the books (and yes, it would be a novel idea to have one Cleveland Browns QB start all 16 games in a season, let alone a rookie season).... |
Good post. Fair and balanced. |
Ladies and Gentleman....
Middle Ground |
Isnt that where Horny Lives...... oh no wait thats Middle Earth |
His Auto Biography is coming in in a week or so. About his "Adventures"
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| hornbybrown wrote: | | We also have the highest amount per capita of Jedi in New Zealand. I'm one. |
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BocaRatonBrown1
Joined: 30 Oct 2008
Posts: 965
Location: Boca raton
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| bruceb wrote: | | NickZambo wrote: | | Entropy wrote: | | bruceb wrote: | | Estonianzulu wrote: | | StewieRules wrote: |
I read some of these posts, EZ and BruceB, etc ...good guys and all but regarding Weeden it makes me wonder, did he stuff you guys into lockers in HS or something? Honestly ... the anger displayed is a bit odd. |
Didn't like him coming out, wanted nothing to do with him in the draft and didn't think he could develop in time to be a super bowl winning Quarterback. I've been consistent in my unhappiness with the decision to draft him, it would not take anyone long to go back and see.
If he develops into a legitimate starting QB who can expand an offense and threaten a defense, make good decisions and improve his ball placement, then I will be happy to have him as our QB.
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=489217
That is what I said about him when he was an Oklahoma State Cowboy. Thus far, I have seen nothing to change my opinion |
Agree, maybe with you for the first time.
He has not won us a single game. Not sure he ever will.
Hoping I am wrong, but haven't seen any performance evidence to the contrary, yet. |
Ok bruce...what does a QB have to do to "win" a game...in your opinion?
What "evidence" do you need to see, in your opinion? |
If you negate the fact that he threw for 364 and a TD, we would have still won, obviously it wasn't because our of QB play... That 96 yard drive at the end of the game to get a TD, wasn't because of Weeden throwing for 70 yards on 5 completions and a 4th down rush conversion. Not at all...
|
I am glad you are gratified by one long drive.
Sorry, but I am not on board with a guy that leads his team to 20 points in a game when his D has 8 takeaways, and 20 against a team that has given up an average of 42+ in their previous four games.
Receivers caught everything near them and TRich ground it out with Ds stacked against him in both games.
What cylinder didn't hit? |
BruceB I just checked the schedule & the Pittsburgh PA is less than 15 per game last 4 games prior to Browns & even more importantly this....
Brandon Weeden is having a year statistically equal to Peyton Manning's rookie year. He is also nearly equal to Andrew Luck's rookie season as well. We can all agree playing ball in Cleveland is the worst conditions in football.
I hate the miss Q's & throws behind or over. He is making rookie mistakes & no doubt plenty of them. I been frustrated with watching him all season long. But at mid point this season we are 4-3 the last 7 with 3 of those wins against playoff caliber teams "Bengals - Steelers - Chargers"
We wont know about Weeden until he finishes next season & thus far he gets my nod going into 2013. |
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ReggieCamp
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 8661
Location: Canonsburg, PA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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This video has nothing to do with football, but it does have to do with Weeden.
Weeden's Inspiration
Apologies if someone posted this already. Didn't see it.
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Cleveland Browns: We put the fun in dysfunction.
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ditchdigger
Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 14035
Location: Columbus, OH
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| ReggieCamp wrote: | This video has nothing to do with football, but it does have to do with Weeden.
Weeden's Inspiration
Apologies if someone posted this already. Didn't see it. |
Heart of a champion. |
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brownsfan214
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 1024
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| LETSGOBROWNIES wrote: | | StewieRules wrote: | I gotta say, I'm with the realists here - and I do NOT get the Weeden hate. Yes, he's 29 ...yes, he's a 1st year player ...no, he isn't putting up the blessed RG3 numbers ...BUT he has more good games than bad, more good series than bad and there's a REASON he played today instead of Colt. He's better. Period.
I read some of these posts, EZ and BruceB, etc ...good guys and all but regarding Weeden it makes me wonder, did he stuff you guys into lockers in HS or something? Honestly ... the anger displayed is a bit odd.
He needs to set his feet and cut down on the picks and high throws - Master of the obvious assessment right there. Point is, he'll continue to develop.
Frankly, I'm not getting all the TR love ... he's having a solid rookie campaign but certainly nothing earth-shattering, and his insistent, chronic, habitual bunny-hopping at the LOS is just tiresome. He lacks a top gear once past the scrum, and for all the ubber power he possesses he got one-armed for a loss on a sweep today - something that was a given for those of us who remember Eric Metcalf, but certainly unexpected of a 5-9, 230 fireplug. Yet - its all good with him in the forum, BEASTTTTT is the cheer any time he gets 4 + yards. Listen I like the kid, he's got a lot of positives, but the bias for him one way is about as silly as it is for Weeden the other way.
Obviously, I want both to do well, to improve, to make our offense better. I have little doubt that both will. But in the meantime, ease up on the Weeden vitriol ~ it's just not good for you. |
Post of the damned century.
Weeden is a rookie QB who, at times, plays like a rookie QB. When the hell did this become a novel concept?? Some folks here seem to be unwilling to acknowledge that fact because their arse is still aching because we drafted him. Or he's not 22. Or both.
Why does his age matter exactly?? He's plenty young enough to play a year or two and then be brushed aside when the new regime comes in and 'fixes things for the last time'. I mean, that's pretty much how things work right, if we're being honest? When, exactly, was the last time a QB got a real shot at succeeding (ie playing in the same system under a GM who can actually evaluate talent for 3-4 years)?
But, of course, TRich is a 'beast' with a 3.6 ypa. He looks more like a 30 year old Jamal Lewis than MJD or Ray Rice or whomever everyone wanted to compare him to prior to the draft. Does that mean I'm not sold on TRich? No, not hardly. It means he's a rookie who's still learning the league. |
Yeah I must admit, I am confused about all the praise for him. I think he has been borderline awful, a 3.5 ypa is unacceptable for the 3rd overall pick. Granted our line is that great, but against the Cheifs, Im not looking at the 2 TDs, you can put a tackle in as RB on the one yard line to punch it is for a TD, but I see the horrific 19 carries for 42 yards. He has had a ypc average of 4 or better only four times this year, but has had SIX games when his average was below 3.
Now for Weeden, I feel he has played better than Trich, but again that isnt saying much. Too inconsistent and too many turnovers without passing yards or TDs to compensate. He hasnt been impressive at all, and given he is 29, doesnt allow me to put much faith in him going forward. But thank goodness for Josh Gordon, he may save our 2012 offseason.
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nugpimpen
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 12093
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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The thing is that everyone thinks Richardson still isn't 100%
Yes he has been hesistant and he dances, but that doesn't mean he won't be better.
He hasn't been that bad, he does have 1500 yards of offense, that isn't terrible.
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| hornbybrown wrote: | | We also have the highest amount per capita of Jedi in New Zealand. I'm one. |
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Dawgpoun8017
Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 9088
Location: Waterloo,NY
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| nugpimpen wrote: | The thing is that everyone thinks Richardson still isn't 100%
Yes he has been hesistant and he dances, but that doesn't mean he won't be better.
He hasn't been that bad, he does have 1500 yards of offense, that isn't terrible. |
Aslong as he keeps getting that rock in the end zone and carrying the defense on his back he is good by me
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2013 Joe Blackburn HOF Award Recipient
"Every man dies, not every man really lives."
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NickZambo
Joined: 03 Mar 2009
Posts: 1388
Location: Pittsburgh Browns Backin'
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| nugpimpen wrote: | The thing is that everyone thinks Richardson still isn't 100%
Yes he has been hesistant and he dances, but that doesn't mean he won't be better.
He hasn't been that bad, he does have 1500 yards of offense, that isn't terrible. |
Agreed. Richardson's YPC stats aren't great... However, through only 14 weeks, he just set a Browns record for rookie rushing TDs and is on pace for 1000 yards. His stats show his longest run was mearly 32 yards and he has only broke 2 plays with of 20+ yards.... But, he is still a big time back that defenses have to respect. When he is healthy, watch out.
You cant keep Trent out of the game, he wants to battle in there with his boys. Hillis missed a game b/c of strep and hangnails, Trent is playing with messed up ribs and a Kevlar vest... child please stop with the Trent isn't worth the 3rd overall pick hate...
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bruceb
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 5323
Location: Rocky River, OH
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| NickZambo wrote: | | nugpimpen wrote: | The thing is that everyone thinks Richardson still isn't 100%
Yes he has been hesistant and he dances, but that doesn't mean he won't be better.
He hasn't been that bad, he does have 1500 yards of offense, that isn't terrible. |
Agreed. Richardson's YPC stats aren't great... However, through only 14 weeks, he just set a Browns record for rookie rushing TDs and is on pace for 1000 yards. His stats show his longest run was mearly 32 yards and he has only broke 2 plays with of 20+ yards.... But, he is still a big time back that defenses have to respect. When he is healthy, watch out.
You cant keep Trent out of the game, he wants to battle in there with his boys. Hillis missed a game b/c of strep and hangnails, Trent is playing with messed up ribs and a Kevlar vest... child please stop with the Trent isn't worth the 3rd overall pick hate... |
Two points:
1. Brown was playing in a 12 game season (I think)
2. Defense's key on him, which takes a lot of pressure off Weeden
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bruceb
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 5323
Location: Rocky River, OH
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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| ReggieCamp wrote: | This video has nothing to do with football, but it does have to do with Weeden.
Weeden's Inspiration
Apologies if someone posted this already. Didn't see it. |
Good stuff
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Everything happens exactly the way it is supposed to happen...otherwise, it would happen some other way |
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