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stchamp98
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 52947
Location: Havre, Montana
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 Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| khodder wrote: |
We allowed 54 sacks last season; Lets assume worst case;
Our LT's allow 20, our RT's allow 20, Our Guards combined to allow 15, and Lyle allows 5. That is still only 60 sacks, and those numbers are over the top.. |
I absolutely agree that those numbers are over the top. I don't buy for a second that Bridges/Massie is 6.5 sacks worse than Bridges/Keith and I don't buy for a second that Colledge/Snyder is 5.5 sacks worse than Colledge-Hadnot.
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stchamp98
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 52947
Location: Havre, Montana
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| JohnnyV wrote: | I understand your arguement Champ. Have to agree to disagree. I honestly believe that this offense has a chance to challenge the franchise's sack record based on what I've seen.
Unless we pull off a trade to bring in a quality starter, I think 70 is really possible.
Worst offensive line in football. Worst offensive line coach in football. Poor quarterback play and injury prone running backs.
Good luck.
Just my opinion. |
My response to the bolded is the same response I had on page 1. Why doesn't that send me into mass hysteria? Because I watched football in 2011.
The offensive line's pass protection won't be good, it won't even be average or below average. It'll be bad, very, very bad. But it won't be any true measure of worse than it was in 2011. The run blocking will. That's where my sorrow lies. Our pass protection and pass game failures still saw us play .500 ball last season because our defense was stout down the stretch, we made a butt load of plays on special teams and we ran the ball efficiently. I'm not so sure we can run as efficiently without Levi Brown. Nothing else, however, has changed on paper. Truth be told is on paper we actually look better in those other areas.
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DirtyDez
Joined: 15 Oct 2010
Posts: 9651
Location: the Arizona desert
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:38 am Post subject: Re: Could we give up 79+ sacks in 2012? |
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| JohnnyV wrote: | | That also happens to be the second most all time behind Philly with 104. |
Gotta feel for Jaws.
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Boise&cards Fan
Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 2941
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:00 am Post subject: |
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Don't think 50+ sacks is out of question this year.
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khodder
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 48097
Location: New New York
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:58 am Post subject: |
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| Boise&cards Fan wrote: | | Don't think 50+ sacks is out of question this year. |
We gave up 54 last year of course it is not out of the question, in fact I expect us to give up 50+ this year. We also gave up 50 the year before that.
Mistakes made by our staff with regards the the OL IMO rests more on players we have let go and moved more than the lack of additions.
We traded Reggie Wells who was a top notch guard with experience at RT. We moved Levi from RT to LT. How much more comfortable would you feel with Reggie Wells on this line. I know I would feel a lot better, he would be the best RT on this roster right now (and has experience at the position) and he is a far better LG than Daryn Colledge too.
One has to wonder what Wells did to alienate himself to this staff, he was the best lineman on this team from 06 through 09 then we just throw him aside to get Alan Faneca.
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stchamp98
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 52947
Location: Havre, Montana
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| khodder wrote: | | Boise&cards Fan wrote: | | Don't think 50+ sacks is out of question this year. |
We gave up 54 last year of course it is not out of the question, in fact I expect us to give up 50+ this year. We also gave up 50 the year before that. |
For the bolded, I agree 100%. I'm going into this season expecting at least 55 sacks allowed as a baseline number. I think that number can improve if our quarterback play gets better and we get better RT play, both of which are reasonable expectations but I'm planning on 55-ish sacks allowed.
But as I've been saying for 3 pages now, that's no different than anything we've dealt with in the past. These issues are nothing new for us.
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#1CARDSFAN
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 23284
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| stchamp98 wrote: | | khodder wrote: | | Boise&cards Fan wrote: | | Don't think 50+ sacks is out of question this year. |
We gave up 54 last year of course it is not out of the question, in fact I expect us to give up 50+ this year. We also gave up 50 the year before that. |
For the bolded, I agree 100%. I'm going into this season expecting at least 55 sacks allowed as a baseline number. I think that number can improve if our quarterback play gets better and we get better RT play, both of which are reasonable expectations but I'm planning on 55-ish sacks allowed.
But as I've been saying for 3 pages now, that's no different than anything we've dealt with in the past. These issues are nothing new for us. |
Change the offensive gameplan. Make it a little more run orientated and loosen the pass rush. This actually may be a blessing in disguise. Levi Brown is a better RT anyhow. Now if someone steps up when he comes back he can move back there. The only reason he is on the left side anyhow is because they lack confidence in anyone else. I don't know numbers and frankly don't care but Bridges visibly played better on the left side then Levi anyhow. Play Bridges with a TE move Levi back to the right side. |
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khodder
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 48097
Location: New New York
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| stchamp98 wrote: | | khodder wrote: | | Boise&cards Fan wrote: | | Don't think 50+ sacks is out of question this year. |
We gave up 54 last year of course it is not out of the question, in fact I expect us to give up 50+ this year. We also gave up 50 the year before that. |
For the bolded, I agree 100%. I'm going into this season expecting at least 55 sacks allowed as a baseline number. I think that number can improve if our quarterback play gets better and we get better RT play, both of which are reasonable expectations but I'm planning on 55-ish sacks allowed.
But as I've been saying for 3 pages now, that's no different than anything we've dealt with in the past. These issues are nothing new for us. |
I would love your thoughts on the Reggie Wells situation. I think I can remember being royally annoyed when we traded him for a 6th round pick to replace him with Faneca. He was our best linemen on a solid OL (Not great, but far better than what we have now), I think something must have happened there, maybe something you can ask your buddy next time you see him.
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Boise&cards Fan
Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 2941
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:01 am Post subject: |
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I'm now on bored that this could happen
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DirtyDez
Joined: 15 Oct 2010
Posts: 9651
Location: the Arizona desert
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:51 am Post subject: |
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All 31 other teams would have brought in a journeyman Tackle by now or at least worked some out. I honestly think there's some type of denial that this franchise has regarding the OL. I can't explain, like they don't think it's important.
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JohnnyV
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 2205
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:30 am Post subject: |
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Starting to come around, aren't we?
Worst oline in football. When you trot out DJ Young in hopes that he can seize the position and he produces that....
What does that say about the rest of your tackles?
Pro Football Focus stated Batiste didn't fair any better...
Sure Young gave up a two hits and a sack (Skelton walked into another hit, while Young was slow to help his tight end out early on another sack), but he wasn’t beat on every play when he lined up against Kamerion Wimbley. Batiste, who had earlier problems at right tackle with Derrick Morgan, gave up three hurries and two ‘nearly hurries’ at the end of the second half on the only plays he lined up opposite Wimbley.
Those hurries against "elite" rushers will translate into sacks. Trust me.
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stchamp98
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 52947
Location: Havre, Montana
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| JohnnyV wrote: | | Starting to come around, aren't we? |
No.
This is just as incorrect and overzealous today as it was 2 days ago.
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khodder
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 48097
Location: New New York
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, this is preseason. Did you notice how rarely we left a back into block. Notice how rarely we gave our Tackles blocking help from our TE's?
Right now we are evaluating tackles. And the best way to do that is to put them on an island against a pass rusher and go from there. You can bet your bottom dollar that come the regular season we have Tight Ends blocking, we have backs blocking, we have a lot of short quick hitting throws that get the ball out of the QB's hands.
This is a shell of an offense right now, as it always is in preseason, you want to know how things will work in the regular season on the offensive line you have to find yourself at a closed practice of some nature a gameplanning walkthrough.
70 sacks give me a break. Stop being such a doom monger.
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khodder
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
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Location: New New York
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| JohnnyV wrote: | | Those hurries against "elite" rushers will translate into sacks. Trust me. |
But that is the QB's issue not the tackles. Those hurries will not translate into sacks unless our QB's become gunshy and start to hold onto the ball.
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Patrick Peterson - 92 targets, 40 catches allowed, 602 yards, 6 TD's, 7 INT's
The Big Brain am winning again, I am the Greetest. |
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JohnnyV
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 2205
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| khodder wrote: | | JohnnyV wrote: | | Those hurries against "elite" rushers will translate into sacks. Trust me. |
But that is the QB's issue not the tackles. Those hurries will not translate into sacks unless our QB's become gunshy and start to hold onto the ball. |
While were spending all this time evaluating our tackles, our QBs are getting killed.
Nice strategy Ken. Evalute what we already know is crap and kill your QBs confidence and moral in the process.
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