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Has Josh Freeman progressed going into his 4th Year?
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:45 pm    Post subject: Has Josh Freeman progressed going into his 4th Year? Reply with quote

I know many will think this is a Panic thread because of the Pre-season game, but it really isn't. I went through some of the old scouting reports on Josh Freeman, and matched them up with his play over the recent years and quite frankly, they have been spot on pretty much.

http://walterfootball.com/pro2009jfreeman.php

Quote:
Strengths: Elite frame with excellent height and in great condition ... No questions about arm strength; shows elite arm strength on 15- to 20-yard stick throws (outs, posts) ... Uses nice touch and throws a catchable ball ... Can throw the ball on the run ... Very low interception percentage from sophomore to junior year; Solid decision maker ... Nice footwork and has a quick drop ... Outstanding feel for the pass rush ... Great mobility and can gain yardage with his feet ... Extremely high upside.

Weaknesses: Accuracy was abysmal in junior year ... Locks on to receivers and shows below-average field vision ... Wildly inconsistent; runs hot and cold ... Questionable leadership ... Intangibles will go under the microscope by pro scouts who can talk to KSU players and coaches.


http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/josh-freeman?id=79557
Quote:
Negatives: Must improve his footwork. His height makes him take long strides in his drop. Fails to step into his throws or square his shoulders at times, relies on his arm strength too often. Inconsistent accuracy from the pocket and throwing on the run. Needs to anticipate downfield throws better, sometimes getting the ball to his receiver a second early or late. Prone to turnovers, makes poor decisions trying to make plays that aren't there. Does not feel backside pressure. Lacks touch on shorter throws. Ball comes out of his hands poorly at times, negating his arm strength. Sometimes pats the ball before the throws. Loose with the ball in the pocket and as a runner. Doesn't move the pile as you'd expect in short-yardage situations, but his height allows him to be effective.


http://www.nfldraft101.com/draft/profiles/player/823/Josh_Freeman.jsp

Quote:
Weaknesses
Josh Freeman entered this draft for one reason%3A the overall lack of talent at the position. Any team that drafts Josh Freeman needs to prepare Freeman to start in 2010 and not 2009. Footwork and ability to read defenses are still a work in progress.


I'm sure you can find a lot more like I did. Inability to read defenses? He's struggled with that tremendously. Locking onto WRs? Inaccuracy?

Some will argue he completed a high percentage of his passes last season. But how many times did we see him check down last year to the RB?

These Reports have been spot on and so far in Pre-Season, I haven't seen much improvement. I liked Freeman coming out, but lately, I'm starting to question on whether or not we have our Franchise QB. The work ethic is there and the time, but he hasn't improved in games.

I even dug up some film on my DVR of games. He threw a lot of bad balls in 2010 where INTs were dropped by defenders. I recall the SF game, where Bucs won 21-0, he had 3 picks in the 1st half the the Niners simply dropped.

Any opinions?
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Calibucsfan


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A bunch of articles aren't going to answer that question, we just have to wait and see, and if he hasn't then we will be looking for a QB in the first round next year
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mfw096


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I gotta agree with Cali.

I believe this is his make or break year.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calibucsfan wrote:
A bunch of articles aren't going to answer that question, we just have to wait and see, and if he hasn't then we will be looking for a QB in the first round next year


No articles won't determine that. My point was these scouting reports have matched the performance we've seen and are still seeing on the field. If he hasn't corrected this by now I think it's time to move on. The weapons are there. No excuses.
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Diesel00


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Mike Sullivan can bring out the best in Free like he did with Eli.
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DaRealdeal


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of the issues that he had a prospect still follow him today, but he has surely proven that he can read defenses. You don't throw 25 TDs and only 6 interceptions in your first full season as a starter if you can't read a defense.

I don't put much into these preseason performances as a whole because our coaching staff has all but admitted that they are holding plays back because coaches around the league have no tape on their schemes. They want to use that to their advantage so we are seeing very basic stuff on both sides of the ball.

With that being said, Freeman needs to get back to what he is good at. Moving in the pocket, extending the play and pushing the ball down field. He is one of the better out of pocket QBs in the league, IMO. He needs to make the defense account for his mobility.

If offseason reports mean anything, this is the best that he has looked as a pro. We'll just have to wait and see when the regular season rolls around.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaRealdeal wrote:
A lot of the issues that he had a prospect still follow him today, but he has surely proven that he can read defenses. You don't throw 25 TDs and only 6 interceptions in your first full season as a starter if you can't read a defense.

I don't put much into these preseason performances as a whole because our coaching staff has all but admitted that they are holding plays back because coaches around the league have no tape on their schemes. They want to use that to their advantage so we are seeing very basic stuff on both sides of the ball.

With that being said, Freeman needs to get back to what he is good at. Moving in the pocket, extending the play and pushing the ball down field. He is one of the better out of pocket QBs in the league, IMO. He needs to make the defense account for his mobility.

If offseason reports mean anything, this is the best that he has looked as a pro. We'll just have to wait and see when the regular season rolls around.


Drd

I respect your opinion but he had several dropped ints in 2010 that won't show up on the stat sheet and performance against winning teams wasn't impressive.

He really regressed in terms of reading defenses and locking onto a wr is something you cannot succeed in the nfl as a qb. He might be practicing well but if he can't adjust to the actual game speed, another qb will be drafted.

Freeman has not answered those questions positively on the field from his 09 scouting report. This is a make of break year.
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DaRealdeal


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
DaRealdeal wrote:
A lot of the issues that he had a prospect still follow him today, but he has surely proven that he can read defenses. You don't throw 25 TDs and only 6 interceptions in your first full season as a starter if you can't read a defense.

I don't put much into these preseason performances as a whole because our coaching staff has all but admitted that they are holding plays back because coaches around the league have no tape on their schemes. They want to use that to their advantage so we are seeing very basic stuff on both sides of the ball.

With that being said, Freeman needs to get back to what he is good at. Moving in the pocket, extending the play and pushing the ball down field. He is one of the better out of pocket QBs in the league, IMO. He needs to make the defense account for his mobility.

If offseason reports mean anything, this is the best that he has looked as a pro. We'll just have to wait and see when the regular season rolls around.


Drd

I respect your opinion but he had several dropped ints in 2010 that won't show up on the stat sheet and performance against winning teams wasn't impressive.

He really regressed in terms of reading defenses and locking onto a wr is something you cannot succeed in the nfl as a qb. He might be practicing well but if he can't adjust to the actual game speed, another qb will be drafted.

Freeman has not answered those questions positively on the field from his 09 scouting report. This is a make of break year.


http://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2010/fo-mailbag-dropped-interceptions

Even when you consider the dropped interceptions his adjusted int rate would still have been 6th best in the league. You simply can't be that efficient with the football if you can't read a defense. He definitely relies on his primary read way too often, but there is no doubt that he has displayed the ability to read a defense - both pre-snap and during the play.

He locked onto receivers in 2010 too so he didn't regress in that aspect. Where he regressed was in his decision making and his unwillingness to scramble. He made way too many "hero" throws and as a result he turned the ball over way too often, especially in the red zone. He also seemed scared to run the ball last year. I know that he dealt with a few injuries last season so maybe that had something to do with it, but he needs to be much more willing to break the pocket and extend the play.

Adjust to game speed? When has that been a problem for him? He may make stupid decisions, but when I watch him play I have never thought to myself that the game is moving too fast for him.

Freeman finally has a quality supporting cast around him. Let's see what he can do.
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bucsfan333


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not ready to jump ship just yet. I like Freeman. I like most of what he's shown in his short NFL career. I know I've said do or die quite a few times this offseason but I think "do" is the result. Free has a much more talented offense around him. It's the most talented offensive group he's had to work with yet. I think he gets it done this year.

We've got speed at the WR position with V-Jax and Underwood so Free can stretch the field and utilize the cannon he's got strapped to his shoulder. And the best part? They've shown they can catch the football. We've still got Mike Williams, who seems to be improving. Parker is still awesome in the slot. The new offense won't utilize TEs as much (from what I understand) so the downgrade at the position shouldn't hurt as much.

We've got, on paper, one of the best offensive lines in the league. Bringing in Nicks filled two holes, and I'm still excited about it. Penn is one of the best LTs in the league, and is still a relative unknown. Joseph had a great season last year, despite 95% of the roster giving up. Zuttah has proven he's a better center than guard, and now he's between one of the best guard duos in the NFL. True still sucks, but I've heard good things about Dotson.

The backfield is the best it's been since Caddy's rookie season. Martin appears to be as advertised. He IS a complete back. He does everything and he does it well. Blount is still Blount, which isn't a bad thing. He'll be a very solid second option. He's still a tank. Smith is fast. He's got get away from the cops speed. Hell, he's basically earned the return man job. He adds another dimension to the offense should Schiano decide to utilize him.

Even the defense seems improved. Albeit, it takes nothing to improve on our abysmal 2011 season. An improved defense means Free should have the ball longer. He should get it back sooner. He might even have decent field position.

Don't look now but we went from laughable to a team that can compete every week in one offseason. I don't expect playoffs just yet. But we can compete. No more 40-burgers to horrible offenses. No more 20+ point blowouts. Know why? Freeman. He CAN make good decisions with the football. He CAN extend plays with his legs. He CAN make something out of nothing. He CAN lead game-winning drives. He CAN play mistake-free football. I think he does it this year.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drd,

Those turnovers freeman has were a result on trouble reading defenses. Yes he forced balls and continues to. Locking on to 1 wr shows an inability to see the field well. That's not very good and he still hasn't fixed his poor foot work in the pocket.

He's looked very bad this preseason and he did last year too and it carried over. Improvement hasn't been shown at all. And it's alarming whether or not we can contend this year.
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DaRealdeal


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
Drd,

Those turnovers freeman has were a result on trouble reading defenses. Yes he forced balls and continues to. Locking on to 1 wr shows an inability to see the field well. That's not very good and he still hasn't fixed his poor foot work in the pocket.

He's looked very bad this preseason and he did last year too and it carried over. Improvement hasn't been shown at all. And it's alarming whether or not we can contend this year.

So anytime Josh Freeman, or any QB for the matter, turns the ball over it's because they had trouble reading the defense?

He looked bad in one game. He looked just fine week one.

You started this thread saying that this wasn't a "panic" thread, but I think that you are overreacting quite a bit.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaRealdeal wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
Drd,

Those turnovers freeman has were a result on trouble reading defenses. Yes he forced balls and continues to. Locking on to 1 wr shows an inability to see the field well. That's not very good and he still hasn't fixed his poor foot work in the pocket.

He's looked very bad this preseason and he did last year too and it carried over. Improvement hasn't been shown at all. And it's alarming whether or not we can contend this year.

So anytime Josh Freeman, or any QB for the matter, turns the ball over it's because they had trouble reading the defense?

He looked bad in one game. He looked just fine week one.

You started this thread saying that this wasn't a "panic" thread, but I think that you are overreacting quite a bit.


This thread is actually dissecting his play over his career. I'm not even judging week ones performance against a Miami dolphins team for one series.

I think you took what I said ad twisted things a bit. No when a qb throws a int doesn't mean they can't read defenses. However when u make terrible throws constantly it comes into question. Freeman hasn't answered that.

Will he this year ? Maybe. But remember he's playing the bucs secondary in practice one that was not really good in 2011.

I hope he is our qb I really do for the next 8-10 yrs but right now it's a huge "?".
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not bashing Freeman one bit. I'm just saying he has not been what we hoped for. Yes the weapons werent there and he's still young. But he hasn't corrected the flaws he had coming out.

He has a lot of questions to answer and this might be his last chance in Tampa to do so because schiano didnt draft him.

I really do hope Freeman is pur franchise qb dont want to set this franchise back again missing on another qb. Freeman is working hard and doing everything and more. But there are aspects in games that he hasn't improved on and that's what we have to see this year. Thursday is a glimpse and example though.
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DaRealdeal


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
DaRealdeal wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
Drd,

Those turnovers freeman has were a result on trouble reading defenses. Yes he forced balls and continues to. Locking on to 1 wr shows an inability to see the field well. That's not very good and he still hasn't fixed his poor foot work in the pocket.

He's looked very bad this preseason and he did last year too and it carried over. Improvement hasn't been shown at all. And it's alarming whether or not we can contend this year.

So anytime Josh Freeman, or any QB for the matter, turns the ball over it's because they had trouble reading the defense?

He looked bad in one game. He looked just fine week one.

You started this thread saying that this wasn't a "panic" thread, but I think that you are overreacting quite a bit.


This thread is actually dissecting his play over his career. I'm not even judging week ones performance against a Miami dolphins team for one series.

I think you took what I said ad twisted things a bit. No when a qb throws a int doesn't mean they can't read defenses. However when u make terrible throws constantly it comes into question. Freeman hasn't answered that.

Will he this year ? Maybe. But remember he's playing the bucs secondary in practice one that was not really good in 2011.

I hope he is our qb I really do for the next 8-10 yrs but right now it's a huge "?".

You were the one that said that he looked bad this preseason, not me.

That's just the thing, he doesn't make terrible throws constantly. His play has been anything but consistent. As a rookie and last year he did, no doubt, but in his second year he played very well - making solid decisions and not turning the football over. His inconsistent decision making is a concern, but not his ability to read a defense.

I'm just trying to figure out what exactly you are trying to argue. It seems like your arguments are all over the place.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaRealdeal wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
DaRealdeal wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
Drd,

Those turnovers freeman has were a result on trouble reading defenses. Yes he forced balls and continues to. Locking on to 1 wr shows an inability to see the field well. That's not very good and he still hasn't fixed his poor foot work in the pocket.

He's looked very bad this preseason and he did last year too and it carried over. Improvement hasn't been shown at all. And it's alarming whether or not we can contend this year.

So anytime Josh Freeman, or any QB for the matter, turns the ball over it's because they had trouble reading the defense?

He looked bad in one game. He looked just fine week one.

You started this thread saying that this wasn't a "panic" thread, but I think that you are overreacting quite a bit.


This thread is actually dissecting his play over his career. I'm not even judging week ones performance against a Miami dolphins team for one series.

I think you took what I said ad twisted things a bit. No when a qb throws a int doesn't mean they can't read defenses. However when u make terrible throws constantly it comes into question. Freeman hasn't answered that.

Will he this year ? Maybe. But remember he's playing the bucs secondary in practice one that was not really good in 2011.

I hope he is our qb I really do for the next 8-10 yrs but right now it's a huge "?".

You were the one that said that he looked bad this preseason, not me.

That's just the thing, he doesn't make terrible throws constantly. His play has been anything but consistent. As a rookie and last year he did, no doubt, but in his second year he played very well - making solid decisions and not turning the football over. His inconsistent decision making is a concern, but not his ability to read a defense.

I'm just trying to figure out what exactly you are trying to argue. It seems like your arguments are all over the place.


My point is its alarming how much he regressed from 2010 to 2011 and not just an off season. He was down right terrible. In year three especially after a good year in 2010 you should see progression. We saw regression and based off of preseason it still seems that way too.

I may seem all over the place with this one but I just see too many of us bucs fans making excuses to why freeman isn't performing.


Well get a better view and understanding Friday on his performance.
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