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Goodbye Cam, Hello Andrew
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J Pep 4 Step

Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 25256
Location: Greenvillain, NC

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:09 pm Post subject:

Tom Shean wrote:

J Pep 4 Step wrote:

Tom Shean wrote:

J Pep 4 Step wrote:

What on earth would lead you to believe Cam is any different?

Towel on head=not learning from mistakes and not trying to correct them?

Or were you just being reductive? Super job, Corky. Again.

My bad, Cam is the GOAT and everytime he throws a pick, he never looks like that ever.

You are missing the point again. Pay attention. Go re-read everything. Slower. No skimming.
_________________

jrry32 wrote:

Faulk's argument style is reminiscent of Mark Sanchez's passing style. Inconsistent as hell and all over the place. I'm just waiting for him to run into iPwn's butt and fumble.

TheGreatZepp

Joined: 27 Jan 2010
Posts: 2805
Location: Brookfield, WI

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:16 pm Post subject:

Rich7sena wrote:

jrry32 wrote:

They all passed the eye test and Luck has been far from exceptional in the 4th quarter and on 3rd Down(except 3rd and long).

I disagree on them all passing the eye test.

For me, Newton and Bradford didn't sell me like Luck has. Eye test is purely subjective so I won't go any further.

As far as Luck being far from exceptional in the 4th quarter and 3rd down:

Luck already has 2 4th quarter comebacks (and led them within range of a 3rd) and 4 go ahead scores in the 4th or overtime this season already. I don't know about you, but I bet Panthers fans would give up a few of Cams gaudy rookie stats for some better down-the-stretch performances.

As a team, the Colts are 5th in the league in 3rd down conversions and Luck has been a big part of that.

Yea, they all didn't pass the eye test for me either.
Newton never passed my eye test, I don't think he can see the field like a QB needs to and his mental aptitude comes up way shorter then I like. Character actually matters to me and I don't believe he has any.
Bradford had a lot of the tools but I never saw the touch on passes downfield or the play progression that screamed special his rookie year. Honestly for me Bradford looked good, I was thrilled to see him the league however, I recall also being grateful that the crap run of QB's was over... Alex Smith, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Jay Cutler, Tavaris Jackson, JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, Kevin Kolb, John Beck, Drew Stanton, Brian Brohm, Mark Sanchez, Pat White, Josh Freeman... Matt Ryan came out with success right away but there were equal amounts of criticism, Joe Flacco wasn't a star out of the gates outside of Baltimore. Matt Stafford was coming off a rookie year in which he had that one week of awesomeness the week before they played the Packers but otherwise had an average rookie year and ended up on IR, he followed that up with 2010 pretty much being a lost year due to shoulder injuries that some wondered he could even return from. Enter Sam Bradford, a high pedigree pocket passer, in a league in desperate demand for them. The demand for a new young star QB was so great that many, myself included, were willing to overlook some of the deficiencies he had. If you say you were different I'll believe you, but after the dry spell of top draft pick QB's performing so utterly terrible, simply being competent looked like future all-pro.

Now enter Luck, coming in after a record breaking year for passer's across the league, Cam Newton breaking numerous rookie passing records and a number of passer's elevating their game. He's passing efficiently, making multiple reads, sitting comfortably in the pocket and learning on the field, looking good in a year when expectations for QB's are higher then ever. The Colts may be playing better as a team then they were last year but they still have no rushing attack and their receiving corps isn't special.

I'm not anointing him the next big thing but he's been impressive on a number of levels.
_________________

El ramster

Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 24407
Location: Sam Bradfords Bed!

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:18 pm Post subject:

All is fine and dandy till the slophmore slump..

Ohhhh how sooon we all jump off the RG band wagon..

Laughing

FF what have you done for me.
_________________

Dus10 wrote:

Note to self: Do not lose a sig bet to Rammy.

Tom Shean

Joined: 10 Oct 2012
Posts: 4582
Location: Tha 703

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:18 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Or were you just being reductive? Super job, Corky. Again.

Quote:

Pay attention. Go re-read everything. Slower. No skimming.

I just see you calling me mentally retarded.
_________________

cpanthers178990

Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 2319

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:59 pm Post subject:

Tom Shean wrote:

Quote:

Or were you just being reductive? Super job, Corky. Again.

Quote:

Pay attention. Go re-read everything. Slower. No skimming.

I just see you calling me mentally retarded.

C'mon man, no need to take it that far.
_________________

SuperCam Career stat track.
32 Games played
7920 Pass Yards
40 Pass TDs
29 Ints
1447 Rushing yards
22 Rushing TDs

cpanthers178990

Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 2319

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:01 am Post subject:

El ramster wrote:

All is fine and dandy till the slophmore slump..

Ohhhh how sooon we all jump off the RG band wagon..

Laughing

FF what have you done for me.

We need the latest trend, I'm trying to fit in with the "in" crowd.
_________________

SuperCam Career stat track.
32 Games played
7920 Pass Yards
40 Pass TDs
29 Ints
1447 Rushing yards
22 Rushing TDs

Tom Shean

Joined: 10 Oct 2012
Posts: 4582
Location: Tha 703

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:03 am Post subject:

cpanthers178990 wrote:

Tom Shean wrote:

Quote:

Or were you just being reductive? Super job, Corky. Again.

Quote:

Pay attention. Go re-read everything. Slower. No skimming.

I just see you calling me mentally retarded.

C'mon man, no need to take it that far.

J Pep was the one that made those comments, not me.
_________________

jrry32

Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 31463

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:10 am Post subject:

Rich7sena wrote:

jrry32 wrote:

Rich7sena wrote:

jrry32 wrote:

They all passed the eye test and Luck has been far from exceptional in the 4th quarter and on 3rd Down(except 3rd and long).

Andrew Luck's 4th Quarter numbers:
52/95
54.7%
674 yards
7.1 YPA
2 TDs
3 ints
71.1 QBR

Luck's 3rd Down Numbers:
3rd Down and 7 or less:
24/46
52.2%
260 yards
5.7 YPA
2 TDs
3 ints
56.4 QBR

3rd Down and 8+:
28/45
62.2%
465 yards
10.3 YPA
1 TD
0 ints
104.4 QBR

Like I said, with the exception of 3rd and Long.

Those numbers really don't mean anything if he's being effective in getting his team the win.

Look, I'm all for the "stats aren't the end all be all" argument. That's my calling card. Stats are nothing more than argument fodder. The thing is that if you're going to state that Luck is exceptional on 3rd down and in the 4th, you'd think there would be some sort of factual ground to stand on.

For example, if I said that Sam Bradford is an exceptional 4th Quarter and 3rd Down QB, what do you think most would say? Difference is that Bradford's 4th Quarter and 3rd Down numbers blow Luck's away.

TheGreatZepp wrote:

Bradford had a lot of the tools but I never saw the touch on passes downfield or the play progression that screamed special his rookie year.

To be fair to young Mr. Bradford, you have to consider scheme and talent. How can you expect a consistent deep ball in a scheme where you don't throw deep and with talent that can't get open deep? For example, before Mark Clayton's injury, Bradford was one of the NFL leaders in 30+ or 40+ yard passes(can't remember which). After Clayton got hurt, we didn't have anyone who could separate deep until Danario Alexander came up and he was healthy for like 4 games.

As for progression, the scheme dictated that he get the ball out quickly so even when he was going through reads, it didn't seem like it.

I, personally, hate the scheme. I think it stunted his growth. This year, his deep ball has been on point with great touch. I think had we let Bradford throw deep, make mistakes and be more reckless as a rookie, he'd be a lot more developed right now. Sadly, we had an ineffective coaching staff and very little offensive talent.
_________________

Jared Jammer

Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 81

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:42 am Post subject:

Newton strikes me as being somewhat dumb with occasional attitude problems, whereas, Luck seems intelligent and mature.

Rich7sena

Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Posts: 1902

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:50 am Post subject:

jrry32 wrote:

Rich7sena wrote:

jrry32 wrote:

Rich7sena wrote:

jrry32 wrote:

They all passed the eye test and Luck has been far from exceptional in the 4th quarter and on 3rd Down(except 3rd and long).

Those numbers really don't mean anything if he's being effective in getting his team the win.

In this case, I'm going to value the stat of wins (which is the true measure of effectiveness) over metrics.

I'd say that in 4 games this year Luck's team has been down going into the 4th, and 4 times he's been effective in getting the win.

Malik

Joined: 18 Dec 2011
Posts: 2815

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:24 am Post subject:

Rich7sena wrote:

jrry32 wrote:

Rich7sena wrote:

jrry32 wrote:

Rich7sena wrote:

jrry32 wrote:

They all passed the eye test and Luck has been far from exceptional in the 4th quarter and on 3rd Down(except 3rd and long).

Those numbers really don't mean anything if he's being effective in getting his team the win.

When the facts don't align with the argument, change the argument. Great career in politics you have in front of you.

J Pep 4 Step

Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 25256
Location: Greenvillain, NC

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:26 am Post subject:

Tom Shean wrote:

Quote:

Or were you just being reductive? Super job, Corky. Again.

Quote:

Pay attention. Go re-read everything. Slower. No skimming.

I just see you calling me mentally retarded.

And I see you trying to be cute with the sarcastic, reductive, irrelevant responses.

You get what you give.
_________________

jrry32 wrote:

Faulk's argument style is reminiscent of Mark Sanchez's passing style. Inconsistent as hell and all over the place. I'm just waiting for him to run into iPwn's butt and fumble.

J Pep 4 Step

Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 25256
Location: Greenvillain, NC

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:29 am Post subject:

Rich7sena wrote:

A true measure of who's effectiveness? The QB or the team?

I mean, it shouldnt be hard for anyone to come up with a pile of examples of ineffective QB play bailed out by effective play by the rest of the team. A win, by itself, certainly doesnt indicate QB effectiveness.
_________________

jrry32 wrote:

Faulk's argument style is reminiscent of Mark Sanchez's passing style. Inconsistent as hell and all over the place. I'm just waiting for him to run into iPwn's butt and fumble.

iknowcool

Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Posts: 11396

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:20 am Post subject:

Plenty of quarterbacks immediately go to the bench after making a porous play such as an interception or going three and out and such. It seems to only be emphasized because it is Cam Newton. Every single thing he does is multipled times 10. Example? Eli Manning similar, if not worse, comments than Cam. What happens? "Oh, well Eli has earned that right." But when Cam said it, "he's arrogant, egotistical, doesn't care about the team, immature." Fair or not fair, that is the situation. Nothing Newton can do about preconceived notions placed upon him.

By the way, something that seems to never be brought up is that while Newton sits on the bench as soon as the offense is off the field, he is almost always taking to his QB coach before he walks back onto the field. So stop with the "Newton isn't trying to improve" stuff. And it was well noted he watched a lot of film, even during the players "offseason" on what he needed to fix.

Tom Shean

Joined: 10 Oct 2012
Posts: 4582
Location: Tha 703

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:38 am Post subject:

J Pep 4 Step wrote:

Tom Shean wrote:

Quote:

Or were you just being reductive? Super job, Corky. Again.

Quote:

Pay attention. Go re-read everything. Slower. No skimming.

I just see you calling me mentally retarded.

And I see you trying to be cute with the sarcastic, reductive, irrelevant responses.

You get what you give.

Are we allowed to call each other offensive names because we don't agree with them now?

Because its the second time you've called me retarded in about 3 days. I would've thought we could've all been a little more mature than that.
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