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Goodbye Cam, Hello Andrew
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Rich7sena


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Posts: 3213
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
I hate to break up this Andrew Luck lovefest but the passing stats over the last #1 overall picks through their first 8 starts:
Bradford:
171/292
58.6%
1674 yards
5.7 YPA
11 TDs
8 Ints
75.9 QBR
Rams Record: 4-4

Luck:
190/336
56.5%
2404 yards
7.2 YPA
10 TDs
8 ints
79.0 QBR
Colts Record: 5-3

Newton:
174/287
60.6%
2393 yards
8.3 YPA
11 TDs
9 ints
87.1 QBR
Panthers Record: 2-6

All those praising Luck and acting like he's a surefire HOFer and doing things never done before are mistaken. Newton and Bradford both received the same hype and love as rookies. And surprisingly, except for YPA, their stats aren't all that dissimilar.

Luck hasn't proven himself to be anything special yet. He has a long road ahead of him.


I think it wouldn't be absurd to discern those numbers in the context of on field play and see that Luck has proven a lot even this early in his career.

He has been exceptional in the 4th quarter and on 3rd down. Luck definitely passes the eye test.
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Tom Shean


Joined: 10 Oct 2012
Posts: 4740
Location: Tha 703
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
I hate to break up this Andrew Luck lovefest but the passing stats over the last #1 overall picks through their first 8 starts:
Bradford:
171/292
58.6%
1674 yards
5.7 YPA
11 TDs
8 Ints
75.9 QBR
Rams Record: 4-4

Luck:
190/336
56.5%
2404 yards
7.2 YPA
10 TDs
8 ints
79.0 QBR
Colts Record: 5-3

Newton:
174/287
60.6%
2393 yards
8.3 YPA
11 TDs
9 ints
87.1 QBR
Panthers Record: 2-6

All those praising Luck and acting like he's a surefire HOFer and doing things never done before are mistaken. Newton and Bradford both received the same hype and love as rookies. And surprisingly, except for YPA, their stats aren't all that dissimilar.

Luck hasn't proven himself to be anything special yet. He has a long road ahead of him.


I think the reason people are saying Luck>Cam is because he looks more mature at this point. He's a better leader, a fantastic student, and ability wise they aren't too different. Instead of sulking when he throws picks, he learns from them, and tries to correct his mistakes. I don't really remember what Sam looked like, so I can't comment on him.
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 45693
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom Shean wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
I hate to break up this Andrew Luck lovefest but the passing stats over the last #1 overall picks through their first 8 starts:
Bradford:
171/292
58.6%
1674 yards
5.7 YPA
11 TDs
8 Ints
75.9 QBR
Rams Record: 4-4

Luck:
190/336
56.5%
2404 yards
7.2 YPA
10 TDs
8 ints
79.0 QBR
Colts Record: 5-3

Newton:
174/287
60.6%
2393 yards
8.3 YPA
11 TDs
9 ints
87.1 QBR
Panthers Record: 2-6

All those praising Luck and acting like he's a surefire HOFer and doing things never done before are mistaken. Newton and Bradford both received the same hype and love as rookies. And surprisingly, except for YPA, their stats aren't all that dissimilar.

Luck hasn't proven himself to be anything special yet. He has a long road ahead of him.


I think the reason people are saying Luck>Cam is because he looks more mature at this point. He's a better leader, a fantastic student, and ability wise they aren't too different. Instead of sulking when he throws picks, he learns from them, and tries to correct his mistakes. I don't really remember what Sam looked like, so I can't comment on him.


Ability wise they aren't too different? Eh?

Rich7sena wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
I hate to break up this Andrew Luck lovefest but the passing stats over the last #1 overall picks through their first 8 starts:
Bradford:
171/292
58.6%
1674 yards
5.7 YPA
11 TDs
8 Ints
75.9 QBR
Rams Record: 4-4

Luck:
190/336
56.5%
2404 yards
7.2 YPA
10 TDs
8 ints
79.0 QBR
Colts Record: 5-3

Newton:
174/287
60.6%
2393 yards
8.3 YPA
11 TDs
9 ints
87.1 QBR
Panthers Record: 2-6

All those praising Luck and acting like he's a surefire HOFer and doing things never done before are mistaken. Newton and Bradford both received the same hype and love as rookies. And surprisingly, except for YPA, their stats aren't all that dissimilar.

Luck hasn't proven himself to be anything special yet. He has a long road ahead of him.


I think it wouldn't be absurd to discern those numbers in the context of on field play and see that Luck has proven a lot even this early in his career.

He has been exceptional in the 4th quarter and on 3rd down. Luck definitely passes the eye test.


They all passed the eye test and Luck has been far from exceptional in the 4th quarter and on 3rd Down(except 3rd and long).
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Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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Tom Shean


Joined: 10 Oct 2012
Posts: 4740
Location: Tha 703
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:

Ability wise they aren't too different? Eh?

.


Ability was the wrong word. I mean in terms of skill set. They both have around the same speed, they're both big, good arms... Luck just looks more prepared mentally.
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Rich7sena


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Posts: 3213
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
They all passed the eye test and Luck has been far from exceptional in the 4th quarter and on 3rd Down(except 3rd and long).


I disagree on them all passing the eye test.

For me, Newton and Bradford didn't sell me like Luck has. Eye test is purely subjective so I won't go any further.

As far as Luck being far from exceptional in the 4th quarter and 3rd down:

Luck already has 2 4th quarter comebacks (and led them within range of a 3rd) and 4 go ahead scores in the 4th or overtime this season already. I don't know about you, but I bet Panthers fans would give up a few of Cams gaudy rookie stats for some better down-the-stretch performances.

As a team, the Colts are 5th in the league in 3rd down conversions and Luck has been a big part of that.
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 45693
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich7sena wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
They all passed the eye test and Luck has been far from exceptional in the 4th quarter and on 3rd Down(except 3rd and long).


I disagree on them all passing the eye test.

For me, Newton and Bradford didn't sell me like Luck has. Eye test is purely subjective so I won't go any further.

As far as Luck being far from exceptional in the 4th quarter and 3rd down:

Luck already has 2 4th quarter comebacks (and led them within range of a 3rd) and 4 go ahead scores in the 4th or overtime this season already. I don't know about you, but I bet Panthers fans would give up a few of Cams gaudy rookie stats for some better down-the-stretch performances.

As a team, the Colts are 5th in the league in 3rd down conversions and Luck has been a big part of that.


Andrew Luck's 4th Quarter numbers:
52/95
54.7%
674 yards
7.1 YPA
2 TDs
3 ints
71.1 QBR

Luck's 3rd Down Numbers:
3rd Down and 7 or less:
24/46
52.2%
260 yards
5.7 YPA
2 TDs
3 ints
56.4 QBR

3rd Down and 8+:
28/45
62.2%
465 yards
10.3 YPA
1 TD
0 ints
104.4 QBR

Like I said, with the exception of 3rd and Long.

Tom Shean wrote:
jrry32 wrote:

Ability wise they aren't too different? Eh?

.


Ability was the wrong word. I mean in terms of skill set. They both have around the same speed, they're both big, good arms... Luck just looks more prepared mentally.


Nah man. Newton is the better athlete by a significant margin and has one of the strongest arms in the NFL. Luck's arm is pretty average for a NFL starting QB. In fact, out of the 3 in the comparison(Bradford, Newton, Luck), Luck has the weakest arm.
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The LBC wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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Rich7sena


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Posts: 3213
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
Rich7sena wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
They all passed the eye test and Luck has been far from exceptional in the 4th quarter and on 3rd Down(except 3rd and long).


I disagree on them all passing the eye test.

For me, Newton and Bradford didn't sell me like Luck has. Eye test is purely subjective so I won't go any further.

As far as Luck being far from exceptional in the 4th quarter and 3rd down:

Luck already has 2 4th quarter comebacks (and led them within range of a 3rd) and 4 go ahead scores in the 4th or overtime this season already. I don't know about you, but I bet Panthers fans would give up a few of Cams gaudy rookie stats for some better down-the-stretch performances.

As a team, the Colts are 5th in the league in 3rd down conversions and Luck has been a big part of that.


Andrew Luck's 4th Quarter numbers:
52/95
54.7%
674 yards
7.1 YPA
2 TDs
3 ints
71.1 QBR

Luck's 3rd Down Numbers:
3rd Down and 7 or less:
24/46
52.2%
260 yards
5.7 YPA
2 TDs
3 ints
56.4 QBR

3rd Down and 8+:
28/45
62.2%
465 yards
10.3 YPA
1 TD
0 ints
104.4 QBR

Like I said, with the exception of 3rd and Long.


Those numbers really don't mean anything if he's being effective in getting his team the win.
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iknowcool


Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Posts: 13211
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are people implying that Newton is the main reason Carolina couldn't muster anymore than 6 wins last year?

Not only is Indianapolis facing weaker opponents in general, look at Luck's wins this year thus far and how much the opponent scored:

vs. Minnesota - 20
vs. Greenbay - 27
vs. Cleveland - 13
vs. Tennessee - 13
vs. Miami - 20

I'm not saying Luck isn't playing well. But you can't compare their win/loss record. With the exception of the Greenbay game, Luck is playing in low scoring games. If they don't put up 24 points, they still believe they can win. If we didn't put up 28 points, there was a good possibility we might lose.

As for "comebacks." Newton put the team in position to win against Minnesota (after converting a 4th and 14) only for his kicker to miss. If it wasn't for a pass interference call, he likely would have done the same against New Orleans last year. Against Arizona, he led the team all the way down the field but his receiver wound up being tackled one yard short of the first down when, had they got it, they would have only needed about 4 yards for the touchdown. And this was in his first game. Against Detroit, he led us down the field and put the ball into the endzone for a touchdown and got the 2 point conversion to tie the game, 35-35.

I'm not going to lie. I haven't watched much of Andrew Luck yet. But I have my doubts he's losing as much better than Newton, if at all, than some are making it sound like in this thread.
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FosterTheSkins


Joined: 19 Oct 2012
Posts: 487
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Pep 4 Step wrote:
Django wrote:
BBIB wrote:
iknowcool wrote:
Yes, we know. Cam sucks. He's worse than every QB in the entire league and Luck through 5 games is already a better QB than he or Griffin will ever be (despite having much worse numbers than either of those two QBs coming into this week).


LOL you see why he posts it like 6 times because he's trying to convince himself

The funny thing is they set up a win win situation. First they say RGIII for instance will do better than Luck as a rookie. So they lowered the bar. So if RGIII had a better season it wouldn't mean anything. But if he doesn't or if he doesn't even have a better game, that's PROOF that Luck >>>>> RGIII


All mobile QBs have been exposed. Vick has been exposed. Cam. And RG3 will too if he cant protect himself from hits.


Confused

You wouldnt describe Luck as a mobile QB?


Or Aaron Rodgers?
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All the other Ds with the pumped up scheme
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J Pep 4 Step


Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 29607
Location: Greenvillain, NC
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meco wrote:
Cam isn't good, he'll be a bust. Cam's rookie numbers were a fluke and you've seen his bad accuracy and fundamentals catch up to him this season. He's got a loser attitude and bad mechanics that he won't fix. I genuinely dislike him.


Thats really what it boils down to.
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J Pep 4 Step


Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 29607
Location: Greenvillain, NC
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom Shean wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
I hate to break up this Andrew Luck lovefest but the passing stats over the last #1 overall picks through their first 8 starts:
Bradford:
171/292
58.6%
1674 yards
5.7 YPA
11 TDs
8 Ints
75.9 QBR
Rams Record: 4-4

Luck:
190/336
56.5%
2404 yards
7.2 YPA
10 TDs
8 ints
79.0 QBR
Colts Record: 5-3

Newton:
174/287
60.6%
2393 yards
8.3 YPA
11 TDs
9 ints
87.1 QBR
Panthers Record: 2-6

All those praising Luck and acting like he's a surefire HOFer and doing things never done before are mistaken. Newton and Bradford both received the same hype and love as rookies. And surprisingly, except for YPA, their stats aren't all that dissimilar.

Luck hasn't proven himself to be anything special yet. He has a long road ahead of him.


I think the reason people are saying Luck>Cam is because he looks more mature at this point. He's a better leader, a fantastic student, and ability wise they aren't too different. Instead of sulking when he throws picks, he learns from them, and tries to correct his mistakes. I don't really remember what Sam looked like, so I can't comment on him.


What on earth would lead you to believe Cam is any different?
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Tom Shean


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Pep 4 Step wrote:

What on earth would lead you to believe Cam is any different?



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J Pep 4 Step


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich7sena wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
Rich7sena wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
They all passed the eye test and Luck has been far from exceptional in the 4th quarter and on 3rd Down(except 3rd and long).


I disagree on them all passing the eye test.

For me, Newton and Bradford didn't sell me like Luck has. Eye test is purely subjective so I won't go any further.

As far as Luck being far from exceptional in the 4th quarter and 3rd down:

Luck already has 2 4th quarter comebacks (and led them within range of a 3rd) and 4 go ahead scores in the 4th or overtime this season already. I don't know about you, but I bet Panthers fans would give up a few of Cams gaudy rookie stats for some better down-the-stretch performances.

As a team, the Colts are 5th in the league in 3rd down conversions and Luck has been a big part of that.


Andrew Luck's 4th Quarter numbers:
52/95
54.7%
674 yards
7.1 YPA
2 TDs
3 ints
71.1 QBR

Luck's 3rd Down Numbers:
3rd Down and 7 or less:
24/46
52.2%
260 yards
5.7 YPA
2 TDs
3 ints
56.4 QBR

3rd Down and 8+:
28/45
62.2%
465 yards
10.3 YPA
1 TD
0 ints
104.4 QBR

Like I said, with the exception of 3rd and Long.


Those numbers really don't mean anything if he's being effective in getting his team the win.


Meaning what???
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J Pep 4 Step


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom Shean wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:

What on earth would lead you to believe Cam is any different?




Towel on head=not learning from mistakes and not trying to correct them?

Or were you just being reductive? Super job, Corky. Again.
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Tom Shean


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Pep 4 Step wrote:
Tom Shean wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:

What on earth would lead you to believe Cam is any different?




Towel on head=not learning from mistakes and not trying to correct them?

Or were you just being reductive? Super job, Corky. Again.


Rolling Eyes

My bad, Cam is the GOAT and everytime he throws a pick, he never looks like that ever.
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