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detfan782004


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 47335
Location: Montana
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GB is 2-3! Holy crap. So much for the 15-1 predictions. Or the 14-2. Or even the 13-3

The Colts dominated them in the second half
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diehardlionfan


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ManeLine wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
ManeLine wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
ManeLine wrote:
Jackson is a great lead off hitter.

Jackson is a good hitter and as he develops is growing out of the leadoff role. If you want to be precise, he is a decent leadoff hitter. He would be a much better #2 hitter.

I think of Aaron Hill in Zona. He was very similar to Jackson this year and batted #2 all year. It was a very good fit and really made their lineup better than it really was.


What do you mean by "growing out of the lead off role"? He gets on base. That's all that matters. He doesn't need to be a 40+ steal type guy to hit lead off.


He means he is developing an all around game that is greater then leadoff guy right now.

Just like Granderson did.


He is developing some power but that doesn't mean you should remove him from lead off. You always want high OBP guys in front of Cabrera/Fielder and Jackson is one of the best at getting on base. Don't mess with it.


They aren't suggesting to mess with it except if the right type of player can be found. The real problem is everyone wants that type of player.

OBP is important but I would willing go with a minor decrease in OBP to have someone that can put pressure on a defence with base stealing ability. A guy that can steal bases removes a great number of double plays from the game and its about total bases not just the ability to get on.

The Tigers have great power in the lineup but the team lacks a proper base running presence. If that can be added to the lineup it adds another dimension to the team.
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ManeLine


Joined: 22 Jul 2011
Posts: 4619
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
But you need good leadoff guy who can steal some bases and cause pressure on D. Jackson is not that. Right now I think

New leadoff guy
Jackson
Cabrera
Fielder

would benefit them more

Exactly. 2 high OBP guys in front of the big guys would be much more beneficial. Especially if one can create runs on his own(or better at it anyhow). And if Dirks can keep it up, he might make a decent #5. That would make our top half lineup lethal.


Victorino
Jackson
Cabrera
Fielder

would be what I would like to see


Victorino is not that good anymore
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ManeLine


Joined: 22 Jul 2011
Posts: 4619
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
GB is 2-3! Holy crap. So much for the 15-1 predictions. Or the 14-2. Or even the 13-3

The Colts dominated them in the second half


So much for NFCN being the best division. Vikings just might win this thing.
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detfan782004


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 47335
Location: Montana
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ManeLine wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
But you need good leadoff guy who can steal some bases and cause pressure on D. Jackson is not that. Right now I think

New leadoff guy
Jackson
Cabrera
Fielder

would benefit them more

Exactly. 2 high OBP guys in front of the big guys would be much more beneficial. Especially if one can create runs on his own(or better at it anyhow). And if Dirks can keep it up, he might make a decent #5. That would make our top half lineup lethal.


Victorino
Jackson
Cabrera
Fielder

would be what I would like to see


Victorino is not that good anymore


OBP of .316 this year with OPS of .667 and 39 SB in a down year.

Jackson .377 OBP with 12 SB


Victorino in his worst year in some time (due to all trade talk) is not that different then Jackson but he gets the SB needed to apply pressure
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detfan782004


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
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Location: Montana
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ManeLine wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
GB is 2-3! Holy crap. So much for the 15-1 predictions. Or the 14-2. Or even the 13-3

The Colts dominated them in the second half


So much for NFCN being the best division. Vikings just might win this thing.


Nah. The Bears are more likely.

Minny offense way toooo conservative to win it.
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nagahide13


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 10991
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
ManeLine wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
But you need good leadoff guy who can steal some bases and cause pressure on D. Jackson is not that. Right now I think

New leadoff guy
Jackson
Cabrera
Fielder

would benefit them more

Exactly. 2 high OBP guys in front of the big guys would be much more beneficial. Especially if one can create runs on his own(or better at it anyhow). And if Dirks can keep it up, he might make a decent #5. That would make our top half lineup lethal.


Victorino
Jackson
Cabrera
Fielder

would be what I would like to see


Victorino is not that good anymore


OBP of .316 this year with OPS of .667 and 39 SB in a down year.

Jackson .377 OBP with 12 SB


Victorino in his worst year in some time (due to all trade talk) is not that different then Jackson but he gets the SB needed to apply pressure


.667 OPS is downright terrible. Jackson's is almost .200 points higher at .856
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ManeLine


Joined: 22 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
ManeLine wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
ManeLine wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
ManeLine wrote:
Jackson is a great lead off hitter.

Jackson is a good hitter and as he develops is growing out of the leadoff role. If you want to be precise, he is a decent leadoff hitter. He would be a much better #2 hitter.

I think of Aaron Hill in Zona. He was very similar to Jackson this year and batted #2 all year. It was a very good fit and really made their lineup better than it really was.


What do you mean by "growing out of the lead off role"? He gets on base. That's all that matters. He doesn't need to be a 40+ steal type guy to hit lead off.


He means he is developing an all around game that is greater then leadoff guy right now.

Just like Granderson did.


He is developing some power but that doesn't mean you should remove him from lead off. You always want high OBP guys in front of Cabrera/Fielder and Jackson is one of the best at getting on base. Don't mess with it.


They aren't suggesting to mess with it except if the right type of player can be found. The real problem is everyone wants that type of player.

OBP is important but I would willing go with a minor decrease in OBP to have someone that can put pressure on a defence with base stealing ability. A guy that can steal bases removes a great number of double plays from the game and its about total bases not just the ability to get on.

The Tigers have great power in the lineup but the team lacks a proper base running presence. If that can be added to the lineup it adds another dimension to the team.


If they can find a guy with a similar OBP to Jackson that can steal more bags then go ahead but I wouldn't move Jackson down for someone like Shane Victorino just because he steals a lot of bags.
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detfan782004


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
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Location: Montana
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nagahide13 wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
ManeLine wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
But you need good leadoff guy who can steal some bases and cause pressure on D. Jackson is not that. Right now I think

New leadoff guy
Jackson
Cabrera
Fielder

would benefit them more

Exactly. 2 high OBP guys in front of the big guys would be much more beneficial. Especially if one can create runs on his own(or better at it anyhow). And if Dirks can keep it up, he might make a decent #5. That would make our top half lineup lethal.


Victorino
Jackson
Cabrera
Fielder

would be what I would like to see


Victorino is not that good anymore


OBP of .316 this year with OPS of .667 and 39 SB in a down year.

Jackson .377 OBP with 12 SB


Victorino in his worst year in some time (due to all trade talk) is not that different then Jackson but he gets the SB needed to apply pressure


.667 OPS is downright terrible. Jackson's is almost .200 points higher at .856


Victorino in his WORST year and Jackson in his best.

Obviously it will be higher.

Victorino is EASILY a better protypical leadoff guy
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detfan782004


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man GB mods lock up losing GDT in a freaking hurry. Laughing

Just saw that GB has Houston next game. Are you serious?

They could start 2-4
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FootballPhreak


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya, I don't think I would chance Victorino at this point. It was a down year for him and I believe Comerica may fit his batting style, but he was just too far off from the production I would want to move Jackson down. He COULD do it, undoubtedly, but no telling if it was just a down year or if this is the Victorino we see moving forward.
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X_Factor_40


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Joined: 24 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
X_Factor_40 wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
X_Factor_40 wrote:
ManeLine wrote:
Jackson is a great lead off hitter. Don't get why you would want to mess with that. Leyland really should hit Dirks 2nd more often instead of Berry/Infante.


If they could get a guy who could consistently get on base who has speed and can steal whenever he wants (like a better Berry), and then drop Jackson's bat 1 spot the lineup would be a lot better. Dirks is alright in the 2 hole if they don't do that, but if Jackson plays like he did this year it would be pretty interesting to watch that lineup for an entire season. However, filling the leadoff hole with the player I would be looking for would be really hard. I'm talking like a Scott Podsednik (sp?) in his prime, or a Billy Hamilton type talent. I'm not saying remove Jackson because he's a bad leadoff hitter. He's just not the type of leadoff hitter I want.

I can't believe you brought up Hamilton. That would be a dream IMO except one little problem. He doesn't appear he will be staying at SS in the majors. CF looks likely and that position is already kind of filled...


You could probably move him to 2B if you wanted to if he's a right handed thrower. But there's no way he's going to be traded. Guys that steal over 100 bases don't come around...ever.

He is RH thrower. I disagree he would never be traded, but it is not DDs MO to overpay for prospects like him I don't think. Also, Hamilton is probably another year away from being an impact player in MLB anyhow. I don't think it is likely, but I don't think it is as unlikely as you seem to.


I should have clarified and said that Hamilton won't be traded for anything that the Tigers can afford to give up. There is no one in the farm system and Jackson/Cabrera/Fielder/Verlander aren't going anywhere.
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X_Factor_40


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
ManeLine wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
GB is 2-3! Holy crap. So much for the 15-1 predictions. Or the 14-2. Or even the 13-3

The Colts dominated them in the second half


So much for NFCN being the best division. Vikings just might win this thing.


Nah. The Bears are more likely.

Minny offense way toooo conservative to win it.


The bears were my Pre-Season pick.

I think the Vikings are going to come back to earth.
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detfan782004


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

X_Factor_40 wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
ManeLine wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
GB is 2-3! Holy crap. So much for the 15-1 predictions. Or the 14-2. Or even the 13-3

The Colts dominated them in the second half


So much for NFCN being the best division. Vikings just might win this thing.


Nah. The Bears are more likely.

Minny offense way toooo conservative to win it.


The bears were my Pre-Season pick.

I think the Vikings are going to come back to earth.


Yea. Like Harvin and all but that is all they really have in passing game. Ponder long pass of 29 on year shows you they are not built to come from behind.

Marshall, Forte and Cutler can do damage.
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nagahide13


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
Ya, I don't think I would chance Victorino at this point. It was a down year for him and I believe Comerica may fit his batting style, but he was just too far off from the production I would want to move Jackson down. He COULD do it, undoubtedly, but no telling if it was just a down year or if this is the Victorino we see moving forward.


Plus he'll get a longer contract from someone else. I wouldn't replace Jackson or Dirks with Vic in the OF, and we still have Garcia, Nick C, and Berry as well. I just don't see the need for an OF at all. In fact, the only bat I could see us replacing would be Peralta... but with whom?

I'd also like to bring Laird back. This was obviously a great year for him offensively, and I certainly don't expect him to replicate it... but he's a STELLAR defender, and he's well worth his contract and playing time.

We have Verlander, Scherzer, Fister and Smyly right now in the rotation for 2013. Bring back Sanchez, and we don't have any kind of need there. We do, however, have a ridiculously gaping hole in relief. We need a TON of quality RPs.
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Last edited by nagahide13 on Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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