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skatebeanz


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found a very disturbing journal entry in my notebook I got out of the storage room. It was my sister's notebook while she worked here.

On a random page it is dated and says:

11/17 "Daily Journal".

Quote:
Anniversary and UltraSound.

I got smacked in the face in the parking lot at the Drs because I had the wrong appointment time. Said "God, please don't let there be a heart beat". Told me he wished I was dead and the baby was dead so he'd have no ties to me at all.
Caught him with bubble in his back pocket. When I started crying, he picked up a handful of my plant and dirt and threw it at my face. On (?) first (?) he threw some food at me from my plate.
Also at Drs he told me that he now knows why "All my baby's daddies" left me. That I was a disgusting fat cow, and a worthless whore and he didn't wanna be with me.


That was written I assume when she was about 6 months pregnant with her BFs kid (my nephew). That was about 3 years ago. This is the sister you guys know about.

Now I didn't know what "bubble" was referring to and I still don't. I guess there is a drug Mephradrone which is known as "bubble", and a bubble can refer to a broken lightbulb or glass piece designed to smoke crank with. She moved to Nebraska with him 2 years ago or so. She is supposedly marrying him next year. Should I show my dad? What do I do? The guy is trash.
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SadLionFan00 wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:


It's interesting that you don't value the rarest accomplishment in baseball in the MVP discussion. It's actually quite incredible.


Its a rare coincidence. Its not a great accomplishment. Again, I ask, if Josh Hamilton hits two HRs today and Miguel hits none, and he doesnt win the triple crown, is his season any worse? No.

Winning the triple crown factors in opponents play. That, and it is only a hitting statistic.

Quote:
Instead I must assume your someone who puts faith in some stat that isn't even the result on an agreed upon equation.


No. I look at WAR, but dont value it. Chase Headly has a higher WAR than Cabby, but, to me, Cabby is the better and more valueable player.

Quote:
In 1933 Chuck Klein had the triple crown but lost the MVP to pitcher Carl Hubbel who was 23-12 ERA 1.66. Kleins team finished last while Hubbel's team won the NL pennant.


Whether or not a team gets into the playoffs does not determine who the best player is. To me Best player is the MVP. The flawed voting in the past should not affect the voting now.

Quote:
In 42 and 47 Ted Williams won the triple crown but its been pretty well documented he didn't win the MVP because he didn't like the media. Williams lead the league by a wide margin in every offensive category.


K? Not sure what youre getting at.

Quote:
You discount Cabrera claiming players around him helped his stats but why don't you be consistent in that thought process. The Angels as a team rate higher than Detroit in almost every offensive category so from my perspective Trout gets more help from team mates than Cabrera.


No I dont. I discount the triple crown because it is based on the fact that Miguel happened to lead the league in HRs. His individual season is not any more or less valueable based on how other players do.

Quote:
If we look at base stealing which is part of your argument the Angels team is more dependant on stealing while Leyland rarely calls for a steal. The Angels were third in stolen bases while the Tigers were dead last.


Cuz we have no speed. If Trout was on this team, I guarentee he would have a similar amount of steals.

Quote:
A good part of successful base stealing is an effective hitter at the plate. A hitter knowing when to foul a pitch off to protect the runner is as important as the runner himself. Trout scored 20 more runs which was a stat certainly helped by those following him in the batting order. Their ability to advance the runner is a great aid to Trout.


In the same way Cabrera having almost 40% (IIRC) of his at bats with runners on base.

Quote:
You seem to also be ignoring Trouts strike out numbers as well. 139k's in 556 plate appearances isn't exactly great is it.


No, its not great. This is one of the factors that makes Cabrera the better hitter this year.

Quote:
Ahoda posted a very good article from a sabre metrics dude and he certainly recognizes the accomplishments of Cabrerra.


Miguel has had an awesome year, I wont deny that.

Quote:
As for team accomplishment it wouldn't have mattered if Trout played this year. His team isn't in the playoff's. The same cant be said for Cabrera. Had he not played the Tigers wouldn't be in the post season.


The Angels had the better record. Are we discounting Trout's value because he plays in a superior division?

Quote:
So I strongly disagree with your position but I could respect it if you were consistent in discounting both players team mates and didnt simply dismiss Cabrera's achievements suggesting they don't matter in the MVP discussion.
Batting average, power numbers, home runs, RBI's, Slugging % are all important numbers. It just seems any stat where Cabrera is ahead of Trout you conveniently suggest those stats aren't as important.


Ive mentioned many times that Cabrera has been better at the plate. Im not discounting his stats at all. Hes had a great year at the plate, but so has Trout, though not to the extent of Miguel. However, Trout adds so much value with his amazing defense and ability on the basepads.

I havent suggested any stats arent important. Im saying winning the Triple Crown shouldnt be an argument that Cabby should win the MVP. Because with that logic, if Adam Dunn or Josh Hamilton happens to run into a few today, the suddenly his season becomes less valuable? No. Im looking at two players statistics on the three aspects of the game. Hitting, Baserunning, Defense. Hitting is obviously the most important, but we cant throw away defense and baserunning.

Also, Mike Trout is having a historical season more rare then Cabrera's. 30 HR/45 SB cannot be discounted at all. Hell, he's one away from 30/50. I think thats happened like two times before. And thats a stat that doesnt reference what other players have done this year.

Lastly, consider total bases. Miguel has 377, Trout has 312. This does not include stolen bases. Trout is 65 behind, playing less games, and has stolen 49 bases. That is damn impressive.

So Cabrera wins the better hitter title. No question. But Trout doesnt just win on defense and base-running, he blows Cabrera away.


To sum up, IMO, Trout has been the better all-around baseball player this year, and therefor, IMO, deserves MVP. No Sabermetrics here.


You simply aren't giving any respect to his performance. Forget the title triple crown. It's an amazing accomplishment to lead in any statistical category in any professional sport. To suggests its simply a coincidence is simply wrong.

To lead in numerous categories is not coincidence it's rare because its extremely hard to do.

I thought this was simplistic and accurate

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=8444629

In your view of Trout how do you determine he is good at stealing bases? Is it not comparison based? How do you determine his fielding is good? Is it not by comparing his errors against other position players and their errors? Is it not comparing his abilities to throw out a player more often than others?

The whole concept of keeping statistics is for comparison. Are trouts numbers simply coincidence or are they accomplishments?

I won't touch on Trouts performance for August and September. He's a good player but all things considered I just don't see him as MVP.
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green24


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LionsFTW wrote:
SadLionFan00 wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
SadLionFan00 wrote:
To me Best player is the MVP

And therein lies your problem. If you want to discuss the BPA(best player award), then discuss whoever you want. But this is the most VALUABLE player award. And Miggy was more important by far to his team. There is a case to be made that Trout had NO value since his team didn't even make the playoffs and that is where a players' value lies, since that is the ultimate goal.


I will argue that the Angels would be worse off without Trout than the Tigers would be without Cabrera. Just because Trout's team plays in a better division doesnt make him any less valuable to his team. If the Angels somehow were in the AL Central, they would be in the playoffs and the Tigers would not.


Disagree. Peter Bourjos would step in and the Angels wouldnt miss a beat on defense and base running. Yeah, he wont get the high average that Trout gets but Bourjos is just as good as a baserunner and just as good of a defender.

Peter Bourjos? Seriously? He is nowhere near Trout in either of those two aspects. Bourjos had 21 SBs in 147 games last year, while Trout has 49 through 138 games this year. Trout has only been caught stealing four times, Bourjos was caught nine times last year. I don't like defensive metrics much at all, but Trout has a DRS (Defensive Runs Saved) of 21 this season, while Bourjos had a DRS of 12 last season.

Also...
Its A Sabotage wrote:
It was Trout's call up and play that got Fat Al off his you know what and sparked that team to have the best record in baseball since the call up time.

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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sllim Pickens wrote:
Since sabremetrics takes a lot of speculation and judgement into account, why dont we do the same for Miggy. Miggy is so valuable in that he is able to play at an above average level, two positions (anyone saying he is an awful 3B needs to watch him play). The fact he was able to do that, allowed us to sign Prince Fielder, who said he wouldnt sign if he were a DH. So, Miggy should get credit for Prince's stats too.

That's actually a pretty outstanding argument: if Cabrera wasn't willing, or wasn't able, to play a different position, Fielder wouldn't be here.

Interesting.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Sllim Pickens wrote:
Since sabremetrics takes a lot of speculation and judgement into account, why dont we do the same for Miggy. Miggy is so valuable in that he is able to play at an above average level, two positions (anyone saying he is an awful 3B needs to watch him play). The fact he was able to do that, allowed us to sign Prince Fielder, who said he wouldnt sign if he were a DH. So, Miggy should get credit for Prince's stats too.

That's actually a pretty outstanding argument: if Cabrera wasn't willing, or wasn't able, to play a different position, Fielder wouldn't be here.

Stupid "logic".


FIFY

Skimming this MVP debate, both sides (Trout vs. Cabrera) want to dismiss the other side far too easily.
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detfan782004


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SadLionFan00 wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
SadLionFan00 wrote:
To me Best player is the MVP

And therein lies your problem. If you want to discuss the BPA(best player award), then discuss whoever you want. But this is the most VALUABLE player award. And Miggy was more important by far to his team. There is a case to be made that Trout had NO value since his team didn't even make the playoffs and that is where a players' value lies, since that is the ultimate goal.


I will argue that the Angels would be worse off without Trout than the Tigers would be without Cabrera. Just because Trout's team plays in a better division doesnt make him any less valuable to his team. If the Angels somehow were in the AL Central, they would be in the playoffs and the Tigers would not.


What? What? Is this a joke?

Angels would be FINE without Trout. They are loaded with OF talent.

Cabrera off the Tigers and they are cellar dweller of the division
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
SadLionFan00 wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
SadLionFan00 wrote:
To me Best player is the MVP

And therein lies your problem. If you want to discuss the BPA(best player award), then discuss whoever you want. But this is the most VALUABLE player award. And Miggy was more important by far to his team. There is a case to be made that Trout had NO value since his team didn't even make the playoffs and that is where a players' value lies, since that is the ultimate goal.


I will argue that the Angels would be worse off without Trout than the Tigers would be without Cabrera. Just because Trout's team plays in a better division doesnt make him any less valuable to his team. If the Angels somehow were in the AL Central, they would be in the playoffs and the Tigers would not.


What? What? Is this a joke?

Angels would be FINE without Trout. They are loaded with OF talent.

Cabrera off the Tigers and they are cellar dweller of the division


There is no way they are fine without Trout. They may be loaded with OF talent but they are not all top 3-5 players in the game. Trout gets on base at a much higher rate than any other player on that roster, especially OFs. He also once on base moves around them faster. The Angels may have talent, but he is the most important bat in that lineup.
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detfan782004


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sllim Pickens wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
SadLionFan00 wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
SadLionFan00 wrote:
To me Best player is the MVP

And therein lies your problem. If you want to discuss the BPA(best player award), then discuss whoever you want. But this is the most VALUABLE player award. And Miggy was more important by far to his team. There is a case to be made that Trout had NO value since his team didn't even make the playoffs and that is where a players' value lies, since that is the ultimate goal.


I will argue that the Angels would be worse off without Trout than the Tigers would be without Cabrera. Just because Trout's team plays in a better division doesnt make him any less valuable to his team. If the Angels somehow were in the AL Central, they would be in the playoffs and the Tigers would not.


What? What? Is this a joke?

Angels would be FINE without Trout. They are loaded with OF talent.

Cabrera off the Tigers and they are cellar dweller of the division


There is no way they are fine without Trout. They may be loaded with OF talent but they are not all top 3-5 players in the game. Trout gets on base at a much higher rate than any other player on that roster, especially OFs. He also once on base moves around them faster. The Angels may have talent, but he is the most important bat in that lineup.


They would be fine without him. They have a ton of offensive weapons. Detroit has 2
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skatebeanz wrote:
I found a very disturbing journal entry in my notebook I got out of the storage room. It was my sister's notebook while she worked here.

On a random page it is dated and says:

11/17 "Daily Journal".

Quote:
Anniversary and UltraSound.

I got smacked in the face in the parking lot at the Drs because I had the wrong appointment time. Said "God, please don't let there be a heart beat". Told me he wished I was dead and the baby was dead so he'd have no ties to me at all.
Caught him with bubble in his back pocket. When I started crying, he picked up a handful of my plant and dirt and threw it at my face. On (?) first (?) he threw some food at me from my plate.
Also at Drs he told me that he now knows why "All my baby's daddies" left me. That I was a disgusting fat cow, and a worthless whore and he didn't wanna be with me.


That was written I assume when she was about 6 months pregnant with her BFs kid (my nephew). That was about 3 years ago. This is the sister you guys know about.

Now I didn't know what "bubble" was referring to and I still don't. I guess there is a drug Mephradrone which is known as "bubble", and a bubble can refer to a broken lightbulb or glass piece designed to smoke crank with. She moved to Nebraska with him 2 years ago or so. She is supposedly marrying him next year. Should I show my dad? What do I do? The guy is trash.

In my opinion, you absolutely have to tell your dad. Not only does it sound unhealthy, it sounds abusive. He should absolutely be made aware.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
SadLionFan00 wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
SadLionFan00 wrote:
To me Best player is the MVP

And therein lies your problem. If you want to discuss the BPA(best player award), then discuss whoever you want. But this is the most VALUABLE player award. And Miggy was more important by far to his team. There is a case to be made that Trout had NO value since his team didn't even make the playoffs and that is where a players' value lies, since that is the ultimate goal.


I will argue that the Angels would be worse off without Trout than the Tigers would be without Cabrera. Just because Trout's team plays in a better division doesnt make him any less valuable to his team. If the Angels somehow were in the AL Central, they would be in the playoffs and the Tigers would not.


What? What? Is this a joke?

Angels would be FINE without Trout. They are loaded with OF talent.

Cabrera off the Tigers and they are cellar dweller of the division


Who are these immense OF talents with the Angels?

A declining Torri Hunter (though he isn't bad, he isn't what he used to be)? Mark Trumbo (who has promise, but isn't without flaws)? Vernon Wells? And while that OF isn't sucky it is a significant step back and there is no leadoff hitter there.

The Angels sucked to start the year without Trout.

I agree the Tigers would be bad without Cabrera, not sure about cellar dweller bad though.
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FootballPhreak


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
skatebeanz wrote:
I found a very disturbing journal entry in my notebook I got out of the storage room. It was my sister's notebook while she worked here.

On a random page it is dated and says:

11/17 "Daily Journal".

Quote:
Anniversary and UltraSound.

I got smacked in the face in the parking lot at the Drs because I had the wrong appointment time. Said "God, please don't let there be a heart beat". Told me he wished I was dead and the baby was dead so he'd have no ties to me at all.
Caught him with bubble in his back pocket. When I started crying, he picked up a handful of my plant and dirt and threw it at my face. On (?) first (?) he threw some food at me from my plate.
Also at Drs he told me that he now knows why "All my baby's daddies" left me. That I was a disgusting fat cow, and a worthless whore and he didn't wanna be with me.


That was written I assume when she was about 6 months pregnant with her BFs kid (my nephew). That was about 3 years ago. This is the sister you guys know about.

Now I didn't know what "bubble" was referring to and I still don't. I guess there is a drug Mephradrone which is known as "bubble", and a bubble can refer to a broken lightbulb or glass piece designed to smoke crank with. She moved to Nebraska with him 2 years ago or so. She is supposedly marrying him next year. Should I show my dad? What do I do? The guy is trash.

In my opinion, you absolutely have to tell your dad. Not only does it sound unhealthy, it sounds abusive. He should absolutely be made aware.

Agreed. Adult or no, parents are parents for your life. Unless it is my mother.

And bubble=condom. I am assuming if she got pregnant, they weren't using them at the time so it would be for use with someone else.
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detfan782004


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1King wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
SadLionFan00 wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
SadLionFan00 wrote:
To me Best player is the MVP

And therein lies your problem. If you want to discuss the BPA(best player award), then discuss whoever you want. But this is the most VALUABLE player award. And Miggy was more important by far to his team. There is a case to be made that Trout had NO value since his team didn't even make the playoffs and that is where a players' value lies, since that is the ultimate goal.


I will argue that the Angels would be worse off without Trout than the Tigers would be without Cabrera. Just because Trout's team plays in a better division doesnt make him any less valuable to his team. If the Angels somehow were in the AL Central, they would be in the playoffs and the Tigers would not.


What? What? Is this a joke?

Angels would be FINE without Trout. They are loaded with OF talent.

Cabrera off the Tigers and they are cellar dweller of the division


Who are these immense OF talents with the Angels?

A declining Torri Hunter (though he isn't bad, he isn't what he used to be)? Mark Trumbo (who has promise, but isn't without flaws)? Vernon Wells? And while that OF isn't sucky it is a significant step back and there is no leadoff hitter there.

The Angels sucked to start the year without Trout.

I agree the Tigers would be bad without Cabrera, not sure about cellar dweller bad though.


See that is the mirage that will likely win Trout MVP. They sucked because Pujols was adjusting to the AL and the park. Everyone says Trout is the one who made Pujols better but I call MAJOR BS! You dont make a premiere hitter like Pujols better. He was simply in a rut from changing from Stl to LA
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Sllim Pickens


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
1King wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
SadLionFan00 wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
SadLionFan00 wrote:
To me Best player is the MVP

And therein lies your problem. If you want to discuss the BPA(best player award), then discuss whoever you want. But this is the most VALUABLE player award. And Miggy was more important by far to his team. There is a case to be made that Trout had NO value since his team didn't even make the playoffs and that is where a players' value lies, since that is the ultimate goal.


I will argue that the Angels would be worse off without Trout than the Tigers would be without Cabrera. Just because Trout's team plays in a better division doesnt make him any less valuable to his team. If the Angels somehow were in the AL Central, they would be in the playoffs and the Tigers would not.


What? What? Is this a joke?

Angels would be FINE without Trout. They are loaded with OF talent.

Cabrera off the Tigers and they are cellar dweller of the division


Who are these immense OF talents with the Angels?

A declining Torri Hunter (though he isn't bad, he isn't what he used to be)? Mark Trumbo (who has promise, but isn't without flaws)? Vernon Wells? And while that OF isn't sucky it is a significant step back and there is no leadoff hitter there.

The Angels sucked to start the year without Trout.

I agree the Tigers would be bad without Cabrera, not sure about cellar dweller bad though.


See that is the mirage that will likely win Trout MVP. They sucked because Pujols was adjusting to the AL and the park. Everyone says Trout is the one who made Pujols better but I call MAJOR BS! You dont make a premiere hitter like Pujols better. He was simply in a rut from changing from Stl to LA


Ase from Pujols though, there team isnt much better than ours. That OF looks good on paper in 2006 but now it is washed up. Trout is well deserving of an MVP, and his numbers are a big part of why the Angels are winning. I get saying Miggy is more important, but to completely dismiss Trout is just flat out bias. He was amazing this year, and would be greatly missed in that lineup. Defensively I dont think he makes a huge upgrade, but his ability to get on base and then get into scoring position is amazing.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's so much that goes into stolen bases and I think people are overrating it to an extent. The face value of SB numbers don't tell you if the catcher got a bad grip on the ball or if he has trouble exchanging from the glove to his hand. It doesn't tell you if the pitcher is good at checking the runners/if the pitcher has a quicker/slower delivery to the plate. All those things factor into SB.

Also, lead off men ALWAYS have high SB numbers. How many middle of the order guys will steal bases? Quick scan and Ryan Braun is the only one that has a high stolen base numbers. Managers typically won't run their middle of the order guys because it's too risky. Why should Miggy run when he has Fielder behind him? Miggy is a slower guy but I honestly don't think he's a terrible base runner like some believe.

Another factor is managers. Some managers are more aggressive than others. Leyland isn't all that aggressive while Scioscia seems to be on the aggressive side. I mean, Austin Jackson has 12 stolen bases for crying out loud. Jackson could steal 30+ if he had a more aggressive manager no doubt.

As for defense, the defensive metrics that a lot of guys use factor into WAR (UZR). A single season of UZR is not reliable; WAR is as flawed as any other stat. Saber people just think they're the smartest person in the room when it comes to this stuff which simply is not true. Both sides make good points but no one is above anyone.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skatebeanz wrote:
I found a very disturbing journal entry in my notebook I got out of the storage room. It was my sister's notebook while she worked here.

On a random page it is dated and says:

11/17 "Daily Journal".

Quote:
Anniversary and UltraSound.

I got smacked in the face in the parking lot at the Drs because I had the wrong appointment time. Said "God, please don't let there be a heart beat". Told me he wished I was dead and the baby was dead so he'd have no ties to me at all.
Caught him with bubble in his back pocket. When I started crying, he picked up a handful of my plant and dirt and threw it at my face. On (?) first (?) he threw some food at me from my plate.
Also at Drs he told me that he now knows why "All my baby's daddies" left me. That I was a disgusting fat cow, and a worthless whore and he didn't wanna be with me.


That was written I assume when she was about 6 months pregnant with her BFs kid (my nephew). That was about 3 years ago. This is the sister you guys know about.

Now I didn't know what "bubble" was referring to and I still don't. I guess there is a drug Mephradrone which is known as "bubble", and a bubble can refer to a broken lightbulb or glass piece designed to smoke crank with. She moved to Nebraska with him 2 years ago or so. She is supposedly marrying him next year. Should I show my dad? What do I do? The guy is trash.


Share it with your dad and make an attempt to step in and make your opinion well known. It's better to intervene now than have her stuck in a bad situation forever or settle because she feels trapped. If something is wrong she'll need the full support of her family and need to know that you stand behind her in any decision she makes going forward. No one should be subjected to that type of treatment from someone who they plan to spend the rest of their lives with. It's a disaster waiting to happen if it hasn't already.
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